[90 Spoilers] Saxony's splendour and Miguelusten's glory

[Miguelito]

I'll be surprised if a 2nd city isn't worth it. Even if the food will be low there's next to no maintenance and it enables trade routes. Chopping early terraces will be a priority.

I refuse to believe that sailing (and building a galley) without BW is even an option.

I don't really believe in either,  but I'm warming up to the idea of at least considering them as options.

It also just occurred to me that we can dump excess hammers into Stonehenge for failgold. Off course you normally wouldn't,  but if extra hammers only serve to make us pay unit maintenance out sounds better than a barracks.  We even get the Ind bonus, and at least Cornflakes with De Gaulle will surely want to build it sooner rather than later?

On that note, I edited the roster including leaders into post #2. We share Ind with 4 other guys . Wonders are decided by tech not hammers. Oh look, we are Fin (along with 3 others). And of course, will is important - with many Ind leaders mass paralysis out of fear of losing might definitely happen.  Do you have an idea for a target wonder yet*? I mentioned AP above,  and Artemis in order to help with it. There's always MoM. Colossus and GLH are banned.

Also no Cre . I don't necessarily love being Cre, but I hate to face them.

* global lurkers are welcome to make their suggestions as well

[Miguelito]

After the vets started bantering how they have nothing to do during the early turns, the mapmaker now basically confirmed that everybody starts on a tiny island (offering to end turns 6-12 for everybody who would not have a tech or build finishing, meaning there would be no scout moves).

I posted passive aggressively in the tech thread because I feel it's a pretty heavy spoiler. Fwiw if anything it benefits us - if Montezuma starts on a tiny island, he can be sure that we have it similar or worse. However I could well have imagined for Brennus or De Gaulle to start on mainland. So I guess for us that contains some useful info:

• anybody beelining Stonehenge is pretty unlikely, meaning that payout on failgold will be delayed (none of the other Ind leaders starts with Mysticism)
  
• we don't have to expect to face an established mainland empire when settling overseas first
  
• dunno, what else?
  

[Amicalola]

As far as wonder beelining, Oracle MC in vanilla is decent for IND, right? And you already have Mysticism.

Edit: I guess it loses some value with Colossus being banned, though. But 60h forges seem like something you want ASAP.

[Mjmd]

I think the most obvious reason to go Oracle into MC is also the most likely reason you won't end up with it. TRIREMES!!!! Especially with increased MC cost (compared to CtH) you'll essentially have full naval control for a LONG time on a most likely predominantly naval map........ (note I have no map knowledge so this is just speculating but with colossus banned seems likely) I'm wondering if anyone will skip sailing and pottery for (I suspect skip at least one of the two and after seeing Ramks T50 Oracle in PB59 I would suspect someone will skip both).

Another line with this play would be to go alphabet and build research with Ind forges up.

No thoughts on just building stonehenge?

[Miguelito]

Ok, why have I not considered Oracle? That's not a rhetorical question; I really have to ask myself. Basically I decided early that I would not compete for early wonders because we need to get out of the woods first, the woods in this case being Fishless Island. And that remains true: we may justify a second city on the island, but not a third. Overseas settling will be costly - the continent will be teeming with barbs (I have seen the PB89 numbers, they're intimidating), and we need to ferry over military, settlers, workers, pre-build workboats and so on. Basically after hammers being relatively useless in the very early game we will suddenly need them galore.

Now, does the fact that everybody is on islands change that assessment? Uh, yes and no? I expect the islands of weaker leaders to be significantly juicier - e.g. allowing for a second city with food, maybe a third, grassland, unforested grain, stone or marble, precious metal, that kind of stuff. That might allow (or rather tempt?) a player to make a wonder run before crossing the straits. Candidates would be Ari (Monty for CoL ?), Jesper (HRR), shade? (Brennus)... Plemo with India I expect to be handicapped similarly to us but he may also compete if it doesn't fall early, as may Cornflakes if he goes for SH anyways.

So my plan has been to establish a firm foothold (or two) on the continent, beeline currency, and from there start caring about wonders. Metal Casting for the forges would be the next research target indeed and should be doable with currency and ICTR. Mjmd is right that I have not yet considered triremes sufficiently, and if we start next to the guy who oracled them we are in for some pain. (However I have to point out that you can't skip pottery)

But you are right that oracling MC would be rather fantastic for us. I guess 2pop whip forges can't really come too early. The GPP and temple would also be very conductive towards my monk economy plan. But I just can't see a world where we do it before sailing (and pottery), and with all the hammer demands of overseas settling I also expect it to be very difficult to chop out the wonder fast upon finishing the tech.
But if by the time when pottery is in no religion has fallen we may reconsider.

Rusten, do you have an opinion on that?


I can't see a world where we actually build Stonehenge. We're Inca, we're supposed to chop terraces. I am confident that Cornflakes - or otherwise some Myst starter - will go for it eventually. Neither am I interested in building research; our pseudo wealth before currency (and indeed afterwards as well) is failgold.

[Mjmd]

You would think I would remember such things. But yes I would expect sailing to then be the tech skipped, but with financial maybe you can still do it without skipping?

Are raging barbs on?

My mind is also firmly in CtH land so I forgot Inca terraces were the culture version here.

[Miguelito]

Are raging barbs on?

I think it would show in the settings that I posted in #11?
So no, I guess they are not. I don't believe they were in 89 either though.


Realms Beyond, tonight I want to find out how nerdy accomplished the forum population really is. I have the following problem:
I want to predict the distance maintenance on this map. The simplified formula is in post #2 and 

DistanceMaintenance = Distance* (1.75*CityPop + 12.25) / MaxPlotDistance

So I need the constant MaxPlotDistance, and for that I have to figure out the map dimensions.

Flying camera in direction of the N-Swrap yielded a neat result:


Note that the grid lines are not quite parallel, so there is some distortion involved. It might be that the map is 3*23 = 69 or maybe also 72 tiles high. But I think the value should be acceptably accurate. However, in direction of the E-W wrap, where the extension apparently is much wider, this is the best picture I can come up with:


And obviously this is so distorted that simple proportionality won't do here.
I have been reading a bit of wiki on central projections, but on the one hand it is not quite an easy read, at least for me, and the examples are usually concerned with the inverse problem - obtaining a central projection drawing of a paralllel projection model.
So, I want to know the length of the pink line in the cartesian model (right). I have the left, central projected picture and can obtain any length from there. I also know the dimensions of the green boxes in the cartesian model. Can a mathematically versed lurker please tell me 

1. if it is even possible to obtain that length? Wiki tells me that central projections don't allow to measure lengths, but I thought that having a reference it might be?
   
2. if yes to 1. how do I go about it?
   

The winner gets to name the quechua, archer, or the first galley!

[AdrienIer]

I have an idea but I'll need to come home tonight to make it work, it needs the biggest screen I can get

Edit : nice Saxony writeup BTW

[Charriu]

Like this? Didn't know you are that rich.

[AdrienIer]

Like this? Didn't know you are that rich.

Yeah without a screen like that Among Us becomes literally unplayable

I'm going to need my screen at home to measure the difference in size of the tiles we see at the bottom of the screenshot