GvG

[Lurker Wyrm]

There's no real way to coordinate which teams of 4 you get paired with, is there? I guess if we had a bunch of Alliance folks all doing ABs, and we were all on TS, the team leaders could all hit "Enter Battle" at the same time - but it would still be a bit iffy, wouldn't it?

Nope, unfortunately not. If you get enough people you can probably get at least 2 groups together, but it hasn't always worked for us in the past. As for the hitting the button thing, battles start every 30 seconds so you don't need to have exact timing for it to work, you just need to make sure that one team doesn't hit it right at the minute mark, sending them in without you.

And yes, we will GvG next week.

You've got to will it with me.

Edit: Along with the new ladder season has come a new list of changes to the game. If you're interested, you can read about them here. There are some pretty heavy changes to highly PvP skills like Divine Boon, so we may need to rethink some builds later on. Most changes aren't all that big, Assassins and Ritualists got the brunt of them (Eviscerate's damage did take a hit though).

Edit yet again: It's a rather huge download since I'm pretty sure they're streaming Nightfall content over.

[Sir Salamandastron]

I had a blast once we got going. We need to have a set time and get moving somewhat close to that time. I had been told we were starting at 9 and we never got going until 10:30? 11? By the time we started, we only managed a few battles before most of us had to pack it in. I realize that last night was probably not normal, but I just wanted to have my say.

I will definitely join in again. Possibly Mondays might work out better, but who knows? I might even do both games!

I'm really looking forward to trying the GvG games. Looks like fun. Alliance Battles can be cool but is so dependent on what other 4-person units you get teamed up with. If you all ever want to just do Alliance Battles, though, I'm in. I'd bring my MM next time though, and we can quickly pump our 4-person team up to a 13-person team in no time!

[Lurker Wyrm]

I had been told we were starting at 9 and we never got going until 10:30? 11?

Usually the way it works is people gradually show up from 9-9:30, then we spend some time planning and making sure everyone has their build set and try to be out the gates and starting a battle by 10. Now that VoD is at 20 minutes we'll probably have time to do 3-4 per meeting night, unless we get steamrolled or do the same to another team.

[Lurker Wyrm]

It's me again, just sending everyone a friendly reminder that we're GvGing tonight (since it is technically Monday now). I know I've heard a lot of maybes from people as to whether they'll show up or not, so we'll see how many we get and who can do what.

If there are only 3 (or fewer) of us, I can ask TNE if they're willing to let us go with them, although they usually want people with more experience and run builds that aren't always in the prebuilt list.

[Lurker Wyrm]

I was going to wait for someone else to post about last night's matches, but I figure if I do that then I'll probably forget what I was going to say.

First off, having played the sword warrior myself last night, I must say I'm rather displeased with it. Charge wasn't as useful as I had hoped it would be and without a KD of some sort I couldn't really do much in the way of disruption (i.e. knocking a monk down so it can't heal, stuff like that). I'd like to replace it with a hammer war, but none of those are on the prebuild list and I don't know what people have unlocked who play warriors. I might as well post the build and if someone thinks they can manage it then I'll be more than happy to let them use it.
Hammer: 16 (12 +3 +1), Strength: 10 (9+1), Tactics: 10 (9+1)
Rush, Frenzy, Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Fierce Blow, *optional, Heal Sig, Res Sig.
*The optional skill can be either: Shock, Gale, Bull's Charge, Hammer Bash or Plague Touch. I might even consider Warrior's Cunning but that's a meh... skill and something that's only really useful against highly defensive teams.

Anyways, on to the matches:

Our first battle was a top 200 guild. That was just a bad draw and, unfortunately, that sort of thing tends to happen for the first match when you're unranked. Not much we can do about that.

The second battle was ranger spike. Given our noobery I don't think there's much we could have done about it since beating that is somewhat simple, but requires experience and people to know what the counters are. The best thing to do is to split the team. That way they have to either split up themselves and weaken their team, or just concentrate on one team, which gives the other team freedom to do what they want inside their base. The other important part about shutting down r-spike is to keep the orders necro out of the game as much as possible. Without the added damage from Order of Pain or Order of the Vampire they won't be able to kill someone. This is where Distracting Shot or, really, any interrupt can be paramount to turning the tide of the battle. Having a monk with Infuse Health can also stop 1 or 2 of the spikes, but it's not something that's going to work 100% of the time (believe me, I've tried).

Anyways, it was nice to finally field a team of all RB members. I know a lot of people were playing builds they're not comfortable with and don't really know how to use but, hey, at least we're getting some experience. We definitely need to find someone to fill the role of target caller since I don't really have a feel for it and I'd rather monk since the backline is where I'm more comfortable.

I hope none of the first-timers are discouraged by our losses. Next week the battles will be a lot easier since we'll be lower on the ladder and all the people looking to make a dent in the ladder will have started already.

[KingOfPain]

Anyways, it was nice to finally field a team of all RB members.

WOOT! Good going, everyone.

I hope none of the first-timers are discouraged by our losses.

Echo. Just remember, having fun is more important then winning

KoP

[Zed-F]

The second battle was ranger spike. Given our noobery I don't think there's much we could have done about it since beating that is somewhat simple, but requires experience and people to know what the counters are.

If I'd known ahead of time who they were going to target, I guess I could have used protective spirit. But I've limited experience as a monk and pretty much none in GvG, and didn't really think of it at the time. I was thinking that we'd have been better off with me as Rit, though. I at least know how to use Shelter+Union, which would have stopped the r-spike cold (I think...)

Anyways, it was nice to finally field a team of all RB members. I know a lot of people were playing builds they're not comfortable with and don't really know how to use but, hey, at least we're getting some experience. We definitely need to find someone to fill the role of target caller since I don't really have a feel for it and I'd rather monk since the backline is where I'm more comfortable.

I hope none of the first-timers are discouraged by our losses. Next week the battles will be a lot easier since we'll be lower on the ladder and all the people looking to make a dent in the ladder will have started already.

I don't know about discouraging, but I did think it was a bit less fun than my AB experiences so far. Maybe if I were playing a character I am more comfortable with, it would work out better.

[Lurker Wyrm]

If I'd known ahead of time who they were going to target, I guess I could have used protective spirit. But I've limited experience as a monk and pretty much none in GvG, and didn't really think of it at the time.

Unfortunately, Prot Spirit does little to nothing in the way of stopping r-spike. The way the spike works is different from warrior spike, which is really high damage at once in a few hits. Classic r-spike, which is making a comeback, uses Dual Shot followed immediately by Savage Shot or Punishing Shot (remember that interrupts have the quick activation) from about 4 archers, which is 12 hits in very rapid succession. That damage by itself isn't enough to kill someone though. The hits are augmented by a necro with Order of Pain or Order of the Vampire, which add about 17 damage per hit. Pain is physical damage whereas Vampire is life stealing. If you've got someone with 480 health, even with prot spirit up they'll be taking 48x12 or 576 damage in one spike. With Vampire's life stealing which ignores... well... every defense mechanism in the game it would be more like 30 from the bows (so prot doesn't do anything at all) + 17 per hit from the vampire. Add into that that most r-spike people use Vampiric bows for an added 5 life stealing damage per hit and you've got a lot of numbers showing up on your screen before you die.

Eventually, I'd like to try R-Spike with us, but we need a lot more experience and co-ordination before we're ready.

I was thinking that we'd have been better off with me as Rit, though.

If you can figure out a way to work a rit into the build, then I'm all for suggestions. I want to bury the sword warrior under the ice to make way for something better, so if you see something you think we can do without, feel free to say so. Just know that removing one of the monks or the flag runner is really not a good idea.

I at least know how to use Shelter+Union, which would have stopped the r-spike cold (I think...)

Shelter, no, for the reasons I stated above. Union might have done something, but I don't know that stopping it cold would be the phrase I'd use. I would say Displacement would have a better effect that Union since a good number arrows would wind up missing. The only problem with Displacement would be that it goes down fast, so I'm not sure it would stop all of them. The best defense agaisnt r-spike is to use walls and corners to your advantage, and to split up. R-spike is a full team build and doesn't split very well at all.

I don't know about discouraging, but I did think it was a bit less fun than my AB experiences so far. Maybe if I were playing a character I am more comfortable with, it would work out better.

Well, we already had all the other roles filled out when you showed up and needed monks, so you got stuck with that. Next time show up on time and you can take the one you want.

[Zed-F]

I hadn't originally been intending to GvG at all, I'd been intending to do something else. But by the time I got online, I realized I didn't feel like it, and said 'why not' to the GvG proposal. Time will tell if things continue on that basis.

[WarBlade]

If I'd known ahead of time who they were going to target, I guess I could have used protective spirit. But I've limited experience as a monk and pretty much none in GvG, and didn't really think of it at the time. I was thinking that we'd have been better off with me as Rit, though. I at least know how to use Shelter+Union, which would have stopped the r-spike cold (I think...)

Shelter+Union under Ritual Lord is a tactic that has been hit hard in recent updates. I know it still works, but there are a few questionmarks over the reliability now.

There are ways to tank through ranger spikes, but it tends to require a coordinated effort from the home team.

All those 75% chance to evade/block etc stances are worth a shot too.

One thing not mentioned yet about countering a ranger spike is kiting. If (and it's a pretty big if) you manage to get what's happening and you don't suffer from any movement debuffs just run like snot diagonally away from the rangers or across their line of fire. You'll be amazed at how much damage you can cut down. Crippling is still a pain, but Nightfall's throwing some new curly ones back in that direction too, so we might start seeing less of that problem.