[SPOILERS] Cassiel of the ???

[Dantski]

Ending turn on or for T39 saw my first 2 Elder Councils built. Unless I've forgotten something about Exploration (due in 2 turns), then ES and WH will both work cottages + a sage until I have something more useful to build than warriors.

Ichabod's score continues to rise, I don't think 1 tech and his size 7 capital accounts for the 40 point difference though.

Incidentally, is there any way for other players to see if Ichabod declares war on the barbs?

[Dantski]

Exploration is finished. Hunting will be next up, a rough guess is 15-20 turns to research it.

Finally a barbarian warrior got lucky attacking my city and took out my 2nd best warrior, will clean up the cheeky bastard next turn.

Sent Ichabod this greeting message since we've not exchanged emails since meeting.

Hi Ichabod

We haven't exchanged any kind of greeting since we met ingame and getting some kind of communication going would be beneficial to us both I believe.

Naturally the Svartfalfar (civ name subject to change upon my whims) are peaceful and would like to count the Clan among our friends rather than our enemies. Trust is of course an excellent way of building positive relations so we would like to start by offering some free information.

1. We have also had the privelige of meeting the Illians to the west.
2. Your barbarian brethren are rather numerous and moving around in several stacks from what we see.

As you no doubt suspect, we are in possession of more information than this but until your standing with our people is better known, we must keep our cards close to our chest.

On the subject of information is there anything you'd be happy to share? I imagine your scouting activities are less hampered given your orcish nature

No reply as yet, currently my thinking is that Ichabod will be a loose cannon this game so anything I can do to make myself friendly with him is a bonus. If I had ot guess at general gameplans for the other players at this point I'd come up with something like this.

Ichabod - Will get warrens up and possibly look to axe rush someone with a shaman or two hasting them at all times. Ichabod would have to rely on catapults or some religious unit for collateral but I'm not sure he'd want ot wait that long.

Ravus - It's all about the PoW rush, unfortunately last I heard from him was that I was the only person he's met. Hopefully enough sinister hunters can be a somewhat effective counter. He'll have to spend some time walking through barbarian land to get to me though which is a definite plus. A short term threat.

Selrahc - Well I think the barbs have wrecked his early game judging by the score. A midgame threat if his financial trait hauls him back into contention, I'd expect him to build plenty of adepts to go with his PZ's. Not sure if warriors can be upgraded to PZ's, anyone know?

Sciz - I....err... don't remember Sciz's leader or civ, let me check. Ahh Dain + Grigori, I expect Sciz to be the greatest long term threat if he makes it that far. Highly promoted mages at the end game with medic 3 healers will be amazing, however he's definitely weaker early on and like myself is a target for Icha + Ravus.

[Dantski]

So Ravus decided to build the Samhain ritual, thats somewhat unexpected as its not terribly strong, he's also fired off stasis which keeps us unable to do much except move units around.

Samhain popped 2 frostlings nearby, 1 archer and 1 normal frostling. The archer was killed attacking my units EOT. The frostling will not pose a threat.

The more thinking I did the more I like (or dislike as the case may be!) the timing of this, I'm not certain but isn't turn 50 the turn Orthus appears? If so its very possible that we could see another civ eliminated in the next 20 turns. Lastly, we also have Mokka a strength 6 channeling 2 caster running around. Now I'm not sure what spells Mokka can use since the barbs don't have mana available to them but a 6 strength unit is still a threat.

Also that Wraith (likely combat 3 at least now) that eliminated Selrahc is still out there, like all the other barbarians, it can attack Ravus, Sciz or myself. Me and Sciz are in serious trouble if 2 of the 3 (Wraith/Mokka/Orthus) turn up on our doorstep.

[Dantski]

spam!

Was also wondering whether Ichabod might use "For the Horde!" now. He could pick up quite a few nice things, or he may wait until Orthus spawns and try to grab him with the spell too. Not too sure how his worldspell works and who's affected by it.

[Mist]

spam!

Was also wondering whether Ichabod might use "For the Horde!" now. He could pick up quite a few nice things, or he may wait until Orthus spawns and try to grab him with the spell too. Not too sure how his worldspell works and who's affected by it.

It has 50% chance to convert any barbarian unit on the map with the race 'Orc'.

[Selrahc]

World units are not affected. No Orthus conversion.

[Dantski]

Looks like I could follow Selrahc out the exit soon.

Hi Dantski,

I'm sorry to take so long to answer to you, but I haven't had the time in the last couple of days due to a busy schedule and some days of illness. You make have noticed that my thread wasn't being updated lately and that's for the same reason.

I'm writing this because it's absolutely necessary, albeit my time is still kind of short.

It's necessary to write due to the things you are going to see when you receive the save. Both Ravus and I have fired our world spells in a plan to harm our opponents. So, I have quite a few troops near your borders and the powergraphs show you don't have the sufficient menpower to defend three cities effectively.

I didn't want to have to do this so early in the game, but I hope you can agree that it's an opportunity that a Civ that shines in the early game have to take. I won't be able to compete with you guys when late game arrives...

With the troops I converted, I think I can capture all your cities. Even if that's not the case, the second stage of the plan is the Illian PoW finishing the targets that I've softened up... And, unfortunately, you are nearer than Sciz, so you're probably going to be the one targeted first...

With all that being said, I wish there were a way to keep you in the game. Now that selrahc was eliminated, if we manage to take you out (albeit, of course, that's not a given), it's going to be a 3-person game only... It's a little to early for this to happen, in my opinion.

So, maybe we can discuss some kind of deal concerning this situation. I won't lie to you, it would involve heavy concessions by your part (probably including vassalage, but not in the same terms as, let's say, what bob did to sareln in FFH PBEM I, since I'd like you to be a powerful ally), since I cannot let this advantage go away without having a large profit.

If you wish to chat about it, I'd be happy to do it. Just say it and we can schedule it.

I hope you understand my situation and why I'm acting the way I am. I thought this through a couple of times and I'm sure that my conditions aren't unreasonable.

Best of luck, dantski, even if things come to the worst.

Waiting your response,

Ichabod

Unexpected, I didn't think by land we were very close at all. Sounds like Ravus + Ich are actively coordinating or they met when Ich used his worldspell and had a quick chat. Anyway I guess this explains why Icha never sent me any emails

Anyway threw this reply together and sent it

Hi Ich

Yes I thought this was a good time for you to fire your worldspell although I'm relatively surprised you are going after me considering that I'm the likely target for a PoW rush. If I'm the closest person to both you and the Illians I think its fair to say the Svartalfar keep getting screwed over by their neighbours!

As for manpower, we'll have to see, I have forests in useful places so I can move my forces around between cities easily and those soldiers have defeated plenty of barbarains recently and are well promoted. Worst case scenario at the moment to me seems that I'll have to turtle up in one city, because I really doubt you have sufficient numbers to take my promoted units down in that city.

So I think my reply at this point is, I'll have to see what you're bringing before negotiating further.

As for concessions, you're saying you'll demand less than Bob did in PBEM1 but still something large, do you have anything in mind here? Palace mana loans are certainly on the table as would be free FoL spreads if I survive that long, otherwise I'm not sure how much I could spare with the PoW likely to attack too. Obviously you'll not keep my cities due to the maintenance and ingame vassalization is a long way away still.

No worries about you attacking, I'm also guessing that when Orthus spawns there's a chance Sciz or Ravus could be eliminated (not a good chance), that would turn the game into a 1v1!

The question I have for you is, do you think you can beat the Illians long term? They will take a bunch of barb cities with PoW and can avoid ruining their economy like the Illians in PBEM1, with better traits than yourself I'd see their fight with you later being a matter of superior Illian units vs Clan weight of numbers, naturally if you had an ally of sufficient strength (not like Bob had in PBEM1) then you could triumph. Sciz is also a massive long term threat while very weak early on, if you guys let him tech up then his magic will just wreck your stacks later on. The Clan are really lacking when it comes to magic so perhaps my civ could help you with that.

Let me know what you think

-Dantski

Rather long by my standards, the fact that he's already willing to negotiate gives me some hope. However I don't know what I can give him right now, units can't be gifted and I can't believe he'd want to keep my cities. Maybe with city states they'll still be worthwhile additions, not sure about that.

So my military consists of 6 warriors

Combat 3 Shock 1
Combat 2
2 have Combat 1
2 have no XP.

The top 4 are in and around Forlorn Pass the city he'll either have to take or run past first, if he's packing only warriors, then my best warrior is effectively strength 6, hopefully enough to kill 2-3 warriors on his own.

In my email to Ich I mentioned pulling back to one city, I'm loathe to do so unless I have no alternative but making a stand at Widow's Harbour may be the best option, with its hill defence bonus and the fact that the city is probably the bestt all around city I have, thats the one I'd choose to keep.

[Dantski]

I have ~10 warriors (all combat 1), 5-6 turns distance from your closer city. Plus, I'll be able to hire 5 str 3 goblins in the goblin camp (not affected by the shock promotion, since they are recon units). Plus the archers, that have pretty good winning chances against your strongest defender.

Since you moved the strongest guy last turn (the combat 3 + shock warrior, I declared last turn to get visibility of your third city), I can imagine that your military situation is far from good to be able to handle this with safety.

Even if I judge that I can't take you (and I have a nice amount of troops that can reach your third city before stasis ends), which I'm starting to believe that I can, I can pillage your economy, which is cottage based (I'm guessing, based on the early education), while waiting for illian support.

If we are going to discuss peace terms, I'd like to ask, first of all things, to a nondisclosure agreement about our negotiations. If you agree with it, we can keep on talking.

Do you accept it?

Ichabod

Got this from Ich today. If his military numbers are correct then I can't fight him, however there's a couple of interesting things here

1. He is directly stating for the first time that he is cooperating with Ravus. From Ravus' perspective I severely doubt he wants Ichabod to get control of my cities

2. He claims to have 10 warriors with combat 1 nearby. Now with the 50% chance to convert orc's from his worldspell, he either got incredibly lucky in converting more units than he should've or he's flat out lying about his numbers here. Jonas does not have the aggressive trait so any warriors that Ichabod built are starting at combat 1 with only animals to get XP on. Animals have been thin on the ground. He also says 'to your closer city', is he referring to my capital here and hoping I misunderstand? That's the city which we got contact from.

Plus, I'll be able to hire 5 str 3 goblins

Uhhh what? I'm sorry but am I missing something here? He's fired his worldspell already, the only converting he can do is Rantine grabbing Barb cities

Plus the archers, that have pretty good winning chances against your strongest defender

Again this is false, he has 2 archers nearby, neither has better than 40% odds. Admittedly this is fine for him as he'd do enough damage for other units to clear up.

He says he can pillage my economy which is 100% true, 6 strength defending archers are just too strong to remove.

If we are going to discuss peace terms, I'd like to ask, first of all things, to a nondisclosure agreement about our negotiations. If you agree with it, we can keep on talking.

I'm curious about this, to me it suggests there's something he wants to negotiate for, that will displease Ravus in some way, what could it be? Is Ichabod in any state to rush Ravus and kill him before he can get his PoW? Regardless I'm happy to promise him I won't talk to anyone else about negotiations, gives me a perfect excuse to break agreements later because I'm the treacherous elves! :neenernee


Upon opening the save and finally getting a chance to look at the game, I'm thinking some of his numbers for nearby units are in fact uncontrollable barbarian units nearby and thus disorganized. Unfortunately they'll still weaken my top defenders enough for Ich to probably be able to take the city and destroy my army.

[Bobchillingworth]

Uhhh what? I'm sorry but am I missing something here? He's fired his worldspell already, the only converting he can do is Rantine grabbing Barb cities

If you're at peace with the Barbarians, you can hire various +1 poison strength goblin units from the goblin forts, provided that you have the appropriate techs for them. I think the full options are regular goblins, goblin archers, wolf riders, and chariots.

[Dantski]

Ugh thats definitely not mentioned anywhere in the civilopedia , does he have to have one of his units occupy the same tile to convert, can he mass convert using a single unit? Or can he just click on any poison goblin he has sight on and convert them?