RB goes medieval - a CK:DV succesion game

[Maksim]

Hi, everyone!

Though not playing, I'm definitely lurking this one with interest - there are lots of tidbits I didn't know. So here are a few ramblings...

Aand were off. The game welcomes me with a screen stating that it ends in 1452 ( a cookie for a person to guess why this particular year ).

I believe that historically, the year 1453 was the fall of Constantinople, which more or less cemented the dominance of the Ottoman empire, and obsoleted the idea of further crusades.

Salic Galvenkind -> Salic Consanguinity

Probably the best succession law in the game - no chance of a random dude from other dynasty inheriting via marrying one of the ruler's daughters; lots of flexibility in choosing which son will inherit. Would anyone ever want to use anything else?

Regal Supremacy is not worth it unless we really, really need extra troops.

What about usury events? Having early moneylenders in the province helps bring extra cash - or do you find that these events trigger too rarely to consider?

Since light cavalry is only thing that doesn't get blown off the field by horse archers, I'd focus on that.

Interesting - I never realized that different unit types played such a role in the game. My approach was always to concentrate on getting a bigger army in the field, and focus on knights. Can you tell what sort of armies your enemies tend to field, and what is a good counter to them? Or is it generally not worth the bother?

Yeah I started a couple of games and got totally lost too... my vassals either revolt or start random wars...

Check the vassals' loyalty regularly (hint - they are ordered by their loyalty score on your character sheet, so start looking from the right). Drop Scutage, as Mist suggests, if you can afford it. Make sure your ruler is well-behaved (don't expand too quickly, as this will accrue "badboy" - a tarnished reputation).

When vassals start random wars, check who they are warring against. Usually, it will be a random count they have claims on, or a pagan. Leave them be if they can take care of it, or join in, and steal their glory by taking the provinces for yourself. If they went up against a bigger foe, decide whether you can afford a major war, or should you accept a loss of a vassal, if they were to be conquered.

...the peasants revolt, the burghers revolt ...

Yup, that happens. Keep the people happy by hovering over each province's people and their loyalty. Lower taxes, build courts of justice and royal posts.

...my courtiers threaten to defect to some other country unless I pay them...

Are they useful? Do they have a job? Consider paying them a reasonable amount. If not, kick them out, the ungrateful swine.

...AI nobles spam me with marriage proposals...

Is the woman in question useful - i.e. does she have a job in the court, like a steward or chancellor? If not, marry her off - she's not doing anything useful for you, but a marriage will result in her going away in exchange for a prestige boost.

...and events like disease, bandits and so on pop up with me having no idea how to deal with them.

Generally speaking, you don't do much about these. Diseases come and go on their own. Bandits will disappear quicker if you build a court of justice.

I also agree that we need to pack Davyd away with a wife and get him out of the inheritance if possible.

Only worry is if he turns out to be as prodigiously fertile as his father and we have an angry disinherited son with the start of a dynasty of his own. Make sure he has an ugly wife lol!

Well, the guy himself may not be the best candidate, but one of his sons may be a genius for all anyone knows. So don't discount him yet!

Pope's piety must be higher than your prestige for a successful excommunication, and high prestige makes annoying church events less likely to fire.

I thought it was the other way round - Pope's prestige must be greater than your piety to excommunicate, and he spends an amount if it roughly corresponding to your piety to excommunicate. However, Orthodox characters do not care for the bishop of Rome's declamations, so you are safe not to pay piety too much attention.

Roman catholic ruler with highest piety controls the Pope ( this is rechecked on death of the pope, and death of said ruler ).

And also when reloading the game, I think (unless that was patched out).

There are free seats on the council, but having an empty seat is still better than employing an educational failure.

Is it? I thought that good advisors (high base stat) helped, but bad advisors simply had no effect on children's education prospects - so having a bad advisor is still better than no advisor.

From the little I know I think that the pagans offer our best bet for initial expansion as laying claim to other titles is prestige expensive or based on sheer luck.

Two things that help with claiming the titles of your co-religionists:

- Claiming your rivals' titles is cheaper
- Claiming excommunicated rulers' titles is cheaper

So it pays to check every now and then whether anyone's been excommunicated, and you can pick up a claim on the cheap. Sure, it tarnishes your reputation somewhat, but it can be a great boon later.

With Diplomacy under 7 she's not a top notch Steward, but education and 13 in stewardship make her a very good one.

Why does a steward need Diplomacy? Does it help with events - "cruel steward overtaxes the population", "nice and diplomatic steward increases investment, changes province prosperity to rich"?

If he turns out a turd he'll get a utilitarian bride ( we need a better Spymaster ), if he becomes any good we'll start looking for a princess or somesuch.

Why are you interested in a princess? Are you looking for a chance to inherit? Personally, I just tend to find a young and lustful lass, to get more children. Also, I think I've seen somewhere that in DV, the child's traits are no longer dependent upon the parents', so even a turd can produce a worthy heir later on.

Doing it yourself [raising a child] costs money ( expenses ), prestige ( you behave odd, this was not the norm ), health ( stress, effort, etc. ) and fertility. The upside is that it gives much greater control over child's growth and outcome is usualy better.

I must be very unlucky - whenever my rulers try to raise children themselves, the children usually end up shy, weak-willed and selfish at best, if not stuttering as well. Perhaps I just don't understand how to play that sub-system - maybe you could shed some light there?

Other than that, great game so far - looking forward to see how it develops!

[Mist]

[SIZE="6"]1075[/SIZE]

Nov 1069

*Sent our wife to mangage Minsk and her lover to the hell-hole of West Divina. I was tempted to let the romance play out, but we we were inefficient after the war and suffering this because of something like West Divina was just to much.

Jan 1070

*We got a pretty decent random character generated to make up numbers in our court. Meet Ksenia Jurevich, our new Spymaster.

She could be top class, but Honest and Trusting are dragging her down.

Feb 1070

*Jacwiez recovers from looting

April 1070

*Construction of forestry in the A-place started by previous owners finishes.
*We're expecting YET ANOTHER child. That's nr 8.
*We got a stability redistribution event

My general advice is to resist these whenever possible. High stability is priceless and rarely worth the trade-off offered. This made us Modest.

May 1070

*Novogrod went to war with pagans to the north of them. This is good as it means they will not contest the Baltics in near future.
*Our son had an fall-out with his wife, since we cant have them fihting a war in the court we get him to cough up. Events centred on other people use their own funds. Savings are inherited, debts forfeited.

*And they immediately fallen in love after that I guess nothing makes you appreciate your own woman like expenses involved

August 1070

*We're now also a Prince of Lithuania

January 1071

*A daughter was born, her name is Irina.

February 1071

*Roman came back from Poland
*A courthouse construction started in Polotsk

July 1071

*Rogovold goes to school - his aptitude is towards diplomacy/stewardship/army in this order. He gets sent to get the court education. Education warrants it's own post, but since all the hidden bells and whistles are described here, I won't recopy it for now. If the read is unclear I'll do a TL;DR version.

September 1071

*Rogovold and Rostislav developed a mutual dislike.
*Aukshayts went into pagan revolt.
*Courthouse started in Jacwiez

February 1072

*We had a falling out with Sofia. It puts us 100 gold in the red.

Mrch 1072

*When prompted to deal with the popular revolt we hang some more traitors.

August 1072

*Courthouse finished in Polotsk
*Irina went off to be raised by a noble
*Idea of Divine Duty spread to last of our provinces, we raise peasant taxes by 10%. We also start researching Jongleurs.

November 1072

*And we're back in the black. Realm stability stayed put, nothing sold off, nothing crumpled from neglect. The gods of RNG were merciful
*One of our vassals, Oleg of Vitebsk sent us his daughter as a fosterling, we accept.

January 1073

*Thieves in Polotsk got hanged.
*Gleb came back from Hungary as a Misguided Warrior. Yeah, he's worthless.

February 1073

*And he didn't learn a thing. This time he challenged the Spymaster. Off he goes to Hungary again, hopefully he'll stay there.

March 1073

*Courthouse built in Jacwiez

May 1073

*Noble loyalty is back to 100% everywhere, I raise Crown Duty back to normal level.

June 1073

*Our eldest son is raising some fuss. Elective Law is the best option trait-wise here, but we're not ready to work it yet. We'll keep the consanguinity and to hell with Davyd's hissy-fit. This made us Stubborn.

August 1073

*Courthouse started in Zhmud

September 1073

*Oleg sent us another fosterling, this time a son. Also accepted.

February 1074

*Zhmud goes into pagan revolt. Before that happens we mobilise the regiment and give a green light to invasion of Samogitia.

April 1074

*The battle didn't last past Skirmish stage. Our huge host of Light Cavalry blew them off the field. War was concluded on April 15.
*After the war we hang some more traitors

May 1074

*Clergy loyalty is back to 100% in core provinces, we drop the Church Donations slider.

June 1074

*Rogovold befriended our Chancellor

August 1074

*Roman finishes his education and boy in what style. A Brilliant Strategist! At the moment this pushes him to the top of succession heap.

Search for suitable wife started, in the meantime he becomes our Marshall to keep him happy. Once married he'll get the county of Memel.
*And Gleb is back again
*Search for wives threw blank on avaiable daughters/siblings of kings, and blank on good and young family of dukes, therefore we went for next best thing - prestigeous and talented young ladies. This returned few options first of which was Adela de Lusignan, a Grey Eminence from Corsica. Offer was sent.

September 1074

*Marriage offer was accepted. Young couple were given County of Memel as a wedding gift and wished a happy future. And here she is :

*The much travelled Gleb was offered as a party to political marriage aiming to improve relations with Poland. The exercise is completely pointless in all other regards as the bride is over 40 and unimpressive.
*Fosterling Ksenia is sent to receive the Court Education. She might make a Steward.
*Gleb's marriage was accepted. Relations didn't budge. He's that worthless :]

November 1074

*We hanged some more traitors :]

December 1074

*We are now also a Prince of Samogitia

January 1075

*Courthouse completed in Zhmud

Tech Status

Sculptures discovered in Polotsk
Divine Duty spreads to Jacwiez
Chained Leather spreads to A-place
Relics discovered in Polotsk
Basilican Structures spreads to Zhmud
Longspear spreads to Zhmud
Shortbow spreads to Zhmud
Stonepit spreads to A-place
Battering Ram spreads to A-place
Divine Duty spreads to Zhmud
Offensive terrain spreads in Jacwiez
Soft Leather spreads in Zhmud
Jongleurs discovered in Polotsk
Wood Ploughs spreads to Zhmud
Battering Ram spreads to Zhmud
Annual Sailing spreads to Jacwiez

[Mist]

Hi, everyone!

Hi Maksim, I was curious if you'd jump in

I believe that historically, the year 1453 was the fall of Constantinople, which more or less cemented the dominance of the Ottoman empire, and obsoleted the idea of further crusades.

Yup. In a lot of academic circles this date is considered the official end of Middle Ages.

Probably the best succession law in the game - no chance of a random dude from other dynasty inheriting via marrying one of the ruler's daughters; lots of flexibility in choosing which son will inherit. Would anyone ever want to use anything else?

As a challenge or for roleplaying purposes perhaps. But this SG is a showcase of sorts, so we won't go into suboptimal choices.

What about usury events? Having early moneylenders in the province helps bring extra cash - or do you find that these events trigger too rarely to consider?

IIRC they make you loose 25 piety each time they fire. And that's a hell lot of piety. Remember that piety is used in BB reduction.

Interesting - I never realized that different unit types played such a role in the game. My approach was always to concentrate on getting a bigger army in the field, and focus on knights. Can you tell what sort of armies your enemies tend to field, and what is a good counter to them? Or is it generally not worth the bother?

Average army composition depends on map area and predominant ruling law. Which means it tends to gravitate towards Knights/HI as more and more rulers adopt feudal contract. Pike/Archer/Light Cavalry army will stop anything that's armour/knights heavy. Going with knights against Mongols is suicide. Light Cavalry is generally good, but requires ability to pull troops out of clergy. Pike/Archer/HI combo we have now is quite resilient, but weak to massed LC/HA.
Stack composition can cut your losses and general engagement time. Numbers will still win, but difference needs to be greater to go against you and you'll suffer much less losses when having the advantage.
Playing stack composition is not required to win wars, but it cuts areas of research you have to take and can help reduce the effort.

Generally speaking, you don't do much about these. Diseases come and go on their own. Bandits will disappear quicker if you build a court of justice.

Having a monastery in the province cuts the disease time.

Well, the guy himself may not be the best candidate, but one of his sons may be a genius for all anyone knows. So don't discount him yet!

CK is not a strict science on this, I personally prefer not to suffer periods with poor rulers hoping for a upturn if it can be avoided.

I thought it was the other way round - Pope's prestige must be greater than your piety to excommunicate, and he spends an amount if it roughly corresponding to your piety to excommunicate. However, Orthodox characters do not care for the bishop of Rome's declamations, so you are safe not to pay piety too much attention.

True, it is the other way round. Wrote this down from memory and didn't doublecheck.

And also when reloading the game, I think (unless that was patched out).

Nope. Not patched

Is it? I thought that good advisors (high base stat) helped, but bad advisors simply had no effect on children's education prospects - so having a bad advisor is still better than no advisor.

If advisor has a diplomacy over 7 he has an impact on the child's education by his own proficiency in the subject. Steward that knows nothing about the economy increases mtth for the best outcome by 20%. There are also modifiers to events from advisor's proficiency as well as attribute level. Again this is more of personal preference here, than exact science, but it works for me if I'm playing above Count level. Counts cant be picky

Why does a steward need Diplomacy? Does it help with events - "cruel steward overtaxes the population", "nice and diplomatic steward increases investment, changes province prosperity to rich"?

For positive influence on Court Education. Advisers with Diplo under 7 have no effect.

Why are you interested in a princess? Are you looking for a chance to inherit? Personally, I just tend to find a young and lustful lass, to get more children. Also, I think I've seen somewhere that in DV, the child's traits are no longer dependent upon the parents', so even a turd can produce a worthy heir later on.

This is not confirmed, but I think marrying a royal family gives more prestige to all parties involved. Initial prestige boost for kids helps. But I might be wrong here.

I must be very unlucky - whenever my rulers try to raise children themselves, the children usually end up shy, weak-willed and selfish at best, if not stuttering as well. Perhaps I just don't understand how to play that sub-system - maybe you could shed some light there?

I'll try when we get an example. Unfortunately this particular attempt at parental upbringing yielded no events at all

[Kylearan]

Roman finishes his education and boy in what style. A Brilliant Strategist! At the moment this pushes him to the top of succession heap. [...]
Search for suitable wife started [...]
Search for wives threw blank on avaiable daughters/siblings of kings, and blank on good and young family of dukes, therefore we went for next best thing

What is the reason to marry him so quickly? Is it useless to wait a bit, hoping that a better option appears?

[Mist]

What is the reason to marry him so quickly? Is it useless to wait a bit, hoping that a better option appears?

He needs to be married before he gets a title, otherwise he'll choose himself and the effect will be quite random.
He needs to get a title to be firmly established in succession order.
He needs to get a title to start accumulate prestige.
The earlier he marries the more time he has to get children, which is especially important given the wife might be infertile ( few children ) or have poor health ( sickly children dying young )
Children stats in DV are randomised to eliminate worst eugenic excesses, but still somewhat based on parents, health especially.

[regoarrarr]

Thanks Mist. I had a few more questions.

1) Is there a way to check the morale of a unit outside of a battle? Your screenshots show the armies (with the morale) at the battle, but is there a way to check on that when the battle is not engaged.

2) So if I'm reading it right, there were 2 "chiefs" that we attacked. The owner of Zhmud had a vassal, who controlled Aukshayts and Sudovia. We took all 3 provinces, and took Zhumd and Aukshayts as part of our demesne, and installed Dravents as the Chief of Sudovia, and made him our vassal. Correct?

[Mist]

1) Is there a way to check the morale of a unit outside of a battle? Your screenshots show the armies (with the morale) at the battle, but is there a way to check on that when the battle is not engaged.

You can check morale of your regiments, but not the opponents. Which I believe is an engine limitation. Unfortunately it means you have to keep focused and track what's going on.

2) So if I'm reading it right, there were 2 "chiefs" that we attacked. The owner of Zhmud had a vassal, who controlled Aukshayts and Sudovia. We took all 3 provinces, and took Zhumd and Aukshayts as part of our demesne, and installed Dravents as the Chief of Sudovia, and made him our vassal. Correct?

We attacked High Chief Anantas, who had one province ( Aukshayts ) and his vassal Chief Dravenis who had two provinces ( Zhmud, Sudovia ).
We made peace with Dravenis first, taking Zhmud from him and leaving him in Sudovia as our vassal.
Then we made peace with the High Chief taking his only province and thus sending him into exile.
We had to do this in this order, because making peace with High Chief first would automatically end hostilities with Dravenis and force white peace.
We could not vassalize High Chief even if we wanted, because he was equal to us in rank ( High Chief is an equivalent of Duke/Prince ) and we can't claim pagan titles.

Btw, in 1075 Dravenis already converted to Christianity and is a proper Orthodox Count now.

[regoarrarr]

Thanks Mist - that explains a lot. Till what year are you planning to play? I'm "ready" for my turns whenever

[Mist]

1080 for a nice round number. I expect to be done by tomorrow morning

[kalin]

This is a great thread, thanks.

I played very little CK, as in one game only which I never finished. The game was quite funny. I wanted to start small to get a feel for the game, so I started as a count (I think) of Constanta by the Black Sea. Before I knew what was going on, I became Duke of Varna, and then... Emperor of Byzantium (gasp!). That much for wanting to stay small

Kalin