Need for Speed: Ichabod & Ravus chasing the Dream

[Ravus Sol]

Not saying...you'll have to read our thread .

Ilios will retain Kandors, and I will swap to Jonas of the Clan . Hello there to you .

Darrell

Say whaaaa?

Khazad and Clan?

Weird...

um, thoughts?

Really want to read that thread now. I guess they want to go for Runes of Kilmorph team? Abuse the Warren system maybe? Unlike the Elf/Dwarf team looking to have druids as a late game unit I can't see anything other then the metal line benifiting this team... which makes them SLOW.

[Ichabod]

You've done well micromanaging as the Khazad but we both want to get a bit blood thirsty. So I guess I will offer to play the peaceful Kuriotates. Keep the tech high, Get the four super cities etc.

I'd assume the Hippus should go first. Better aggression and gives the Kuriotates longer to decide where to place the first super city.

The thing which seems to be most relevant regarding the turn order is collateral damage. So, the question is, what Civ will have our best source of collateral (be it Gibbon, Chalid or other)? Hippus or Kuriotates?

I can play the Hippis, but I have to say that I never played any war in multiplayer yet. So, I'd have to learn while playing. Of course, strategizing with raider horsemen is probably the easiest way to start, since it has so many options of movement.

So;
Worker Techs, Horse Riding, Code of laws for hippus economy, Trading, Undercouncil, (overcouncil as well?), Horse Archers,

Seems to be our initially plan. I'm hoping the horsemen will be enough to cause choas initially. Especially since we seem to be the only threat at the start. We should leverage that for all it is worth.

Sounds good. Of course, a more detailed plan will have to wait for the map. And I'm really starting to get along with the Esus as a religion. Like you said, Chalid is too far from our tech plan. And relying too much on 1 unit is not optimal.

On the other hand, Gibbon could be nice. Especially with Shadow Mana from the Nix Noctis. Shadow I makes our units immune to first strikes and Shadow 2 makes them ignore city defenses. This will be a massive boost for our troops when conquering cities. After all, Gibbon has to be played as a buff/collateral caster, since he's a illusionist, making summons a bad idea.

Say whaaaa?

Khazad and Clan?

Weird...

um, thoughts?

Really want to read that thread now. I guess they want to go for Runes of Kilmorph team? Abuse the Warren system maybe? Unlike the Elf/Dwarf team looking to have druids as a late game unit I can't see anything other then the metal line benifiting this team... which makes them SLOW.

Weird....²

Well, warrens is obviously valuable in a Always War game. And the Soldier of Kilmorph trick is nice...

But, seriously, what?? They chose two bad techers... -10% sience from barbs and -10% science for the Khazad gold (it can be even more than that) and for what benefit? Maybe they are thinking on doing something like us, with a Khazad player with just a few cities. But they would still need a LOT of gold to go for it.

This team will be very vulnerable in the early game. Even with Kandros having good defenses and being agressive, there's no way he can help his partner with his one movers. Like you said, this teams lacks mobility and that'll be a big problem. They can still go for Druids, but I wonder how will they tech so much. Maybe the metal line for iron ogres (strenght 10).

Having played both the orcs and the Khazad in the PBEMs here, I certainly think they'll have problems teching.

[Ravus Sol]

The thing which seems to be most relevant regarding the turn order is collateral damage. So, the question is, what Civ will have our best source of collateral (be it Gibbon, Chalid or other)? Hippus or Kuriotates?

I can play the Hippis, but I have to say that I never played any war in multiplayer yet. So, I'd have to learn while playing. Of course, strategizing with raider horsemen is probably the easiest way to start, since it has so many options of movement.

If we are starting to favour a Kuriotate Collateral Gibbon over Chalid (He does take Priesthood and religious law to just open for use.) Then i guess the kuriotates should go first...

However there is the question of the second tower.

We have the first Tower of Divinitation planned for the kuriotates (fast build) to be used for war horses. But after that the mana can be sent over to the Hippus and built again. So we get a second tech boost that way. The only four worthwhile techs I can see

• Astronomy = a bit low, doesn't cost that much compared to the others anyway. But it opens up the powerful Kuriotate airships
  
• Mithril Working = Opens up the use of Mithril, if we get this onto Ratha and mounted mercenaries and knights then our enemies will really get worried.
  
• Strength of Will = If we don't go down the religion line this could be useful... but a diversion, so not likely, plus archmages will take AGES to mature in this kind of speed game.
  
• Pass through the ether = Opens up the nexus for fast troop relocation... but we allready have fast troops AND the ability to hire mercenaries anywhere if things go well.
  
• Theology = If we do get religious law then we could upgrade those hippus Empy priests into high priests which have good collateral.
  
• Guilds = for shadows, a more powerful alternative for assassins, good counter for collateral unit
  

The only reason i can see to grab Chalid is to later grab four high priests for quintuple the collateral. If we do want that then Hippus first...

Otherwise Kuriotate with Gibbon first I guess. (And then the choice of the second tower is left undecided... Shadows could work well, or Airships.)

I can play Hippus if you are really worried. But like with most multiplayer games you can play the opponent just as easily as the game. Threaten multiple cities where you can. force them to make mistakes. Be aware they could make stupid moves. so on and so on. The Hippus speed works a LOT in our favour. The only late game threat to our speed is the Lanun Raider and the hasted Vamps.

Sounds good. Of course, a more detailed plan will have to wait for the map. And I'm really starting to get along with the Esus as a religion. Like you said, Chalid is too far from our tech plan. And relying too much on 1 unit is not optimal.

On the other hand, Gibbon could be nice. Especially with Shadow Mana from the Nix Noctis. Shadow I makes our units immune to first strikes and Shadow 2 makes them ignore city defenses. This will be a massive boost for our troops when conquering cities. After all, Gibbon has to be played as a buff/collateral caster, since he's a illusionist, making summons a bad idea.

Gibbon would be nice... collateral wise we have maelstrom in the bag via hippus air mana. Ice mana would be lovly... but would Maelstrom be best via it's larger range?

The Shadow Mana is very useful. I figure we can set up four adepts in the Kuriotate city running the mind spell inspiration and casting blur on units before they head to the front line. But it's the mage level spell thats more useful. Not the adept one. So using Gibbon for this would work.

I'm personally just loving the Undercouncil gimmick. Everything else is just gravy.

Weird....²

Well, warrens is obviously valuable in a Always War game. And the Soldier of Kilmorph trick is nice...

But, seriously, what?? They chose two bad techers... -10% sience from barbs and -10% science for the Khazad gold (it can be even more than that) and for what benefit? Maybe they are thinking on doing something like us, with a Khazad player with just a few cities. But they would still need a LOT of gold to go for it.

This team will be very vulnerable in the early game. Even with Kandros having good defenses and being agressive, there's no way he can help his partner with his one movers. Like you said, this teams lacks mobility and that'll be a big problem. They can still go for Druids, but I wonder how will they tech so much. Maybe the metal line for iron ogres (strenght 10).

Having played both the orcs and the Khazad in the PBEMs here, I certainly think they'll have problems teching.

Maybe they figure that we will rush one team and they will rush the other to slow things down? But if that is the case we'd still beat them in tech speed even while the other two were slowed.

Metal line does seem the most likely. It unlocks both the heroes. But that would only get them to champions. That combined with priests which they may go for quick spreading of Temples...

But Champions and Priests does not a army make. I suppose they will have Trebuchets along. Or Ritualists for the Orcs?

But they lack a UBER unit or a...

wait, would these two be crazy enough to try and bring on armegeddon to get out both the Mithiril Golum and the Armegeddon Avatar out? Naw they wouldn't even be able to tech that far. That's just my paranoia jumping in.

Maybe they plan to use a double Divination tower jump like we do? They could try to get something interesting.

I allways feel threatened by someone I can't anticipate and these guys seem too strange a choice.

[Mist]

Your start. Ignore the huts, they are randomly placed at start of the game and final layout will differ.

[Ichabod]

I don't understand this... Is this Ravus start or my start?

And why is the map so heavily edited and with bad terrain? Tundra and Hell terrain?? Am I seeing this right? I thought we were going with a lush map...

Getting a fast Gibbon is number one priority right now. We already have nature mana from the Hippus palace, so we can vitalize everything very early.

The plains 1S of the northern corn seems like a good place for a Kuriotate city. Maybe we can do a bit of trecking up there.

[Mist]

You're both starting on the same tile. Starting settlers have Mobility 2, Sentry 2 and Settler bonus. The map is lush, it's just not uniformly green And there's no tundra in this screenshot, just some hell terrain.

[Ichabod]

I thought that the tile 1SE was tundra. Guess is hell terrain too then...

[Ravus Sol]

I think it's impossible now for FFH maps to be made without editing and quirks... Well I'm waiting in the wings on FFHIX for if the devil gets summoned but everything else since PBEM III has had minor to major quirks.

Even the preplaced towns have been named! That's amusing.

The 1SE tile looks like haunted land... Is haunted land in base FFH?

Oh is everyone aware of how Hell Terrain works? Unless Hell Terain is turned off when the game starts then Hell Terrain will turn back into normal terrain because the AC is too low. So unless it's to stop early exploration untill it transforms back (Flaming deserts? unable to pass through?) Then it won't matter much.

If it IS turned off then people should have been informed or asked because that can ruin any secret Armegeddon plans that others may have. Lanun and Amurite could do that. Or the Malakim & Calabim. Turning Hell Terain of means those preplaced will stay but will stop the spreading from these and stop the demons from bringing it in to the world when summoned.




Kuriotate City #1
The place you pick seems perfect. It shouldn't be too much of a risk to leg it up their. The City will grab;

• 2 preplaced farms
  
• 2 preplaced towns (Dardin & C-)
  
• Corn
  
• Crab
  
• Dye
  

It does mean fishing is now a neccessary tech. But that's not too much bother.

Hippus City #1
So where should the Hippus go?

I don't think they need to head to the southern river and plant on it...

There's a preplaced mine, cottage (Dendros), The Standing Stones and Wheat, but the city can't claim them all;
The Mine would be useful for a fast worker. The Standing stones gives some happiness... I forget if it's +1 or +3 the latter is more worth settling near. An Early Cottage is allways useful for faster commerce.

So possibilities? 1SE or 1W? Or 1NW?

1SE seems better long term as a Hippus capital...

Super Settler
Should we take advantage of the extra sight on the settlers for some scouting?

Although if we head for the optimum Kuriotate city then that will get us enough scouting?

[Mist]

The 1SE tile looks like haunted land... Is haunted land in base FFH?

It's shallows tile in Blue Marble high detail tileset.

Oh is everyone aware of how Hell Terrain works? Unless Hell Terain is turned off when the game starts then Hell Terrain will turn back into normal terrain because the AC is too low. So unless it's to stop early exploration untill it transforms back (Flaming deserts? unable to pass through?) Then it won't matter much.

This is not actually true ( I did some test on the subject while drawing ). Yes - hell resources revert, but everything else stays as it is. There will be no hell spread ( or withdrawal ) until Hyborem gets summoned. After that it all goes as normal.

[Ravus Sol]

It's shallows tile in Blue Marble high detail tileset.

This is not actually true ( I did some test on the subject while drawing ). Yes - hell resources revert, but everything else stays as it is. There will be no hell spread ( or withdrawal ) until Hyborem gets summoned. After that it all goes as normal.

Thats good! No more worrying about changes needed in gameplay. I was sure it used to change. Maybe it used to in a previous version.

Either way it should be fine if this is the case.