[LURKERS] Sweet 16: Civ Party Fun Time and Philosophical Debate

[Serdoa]

Also I realized just now that Gavagai is the only one who can settle for sheep, corn and deer. Which is definitely stronger than the other starts. Not by THAT much that I feel it needs changing, but still.

[darrelljs]

This is straight BTS, right? Some of the picks are confusing...

Darrell

[Thoth]

BTS, yes.

And I agree that there is some odd thinking going on.

[Mardoc]

I now understand what 2metrajinja is going for: the Sumerian Oracle, probably into Metal casting and Colossus and half-price Forges - along with of course half-price Ziggurats. Roosevelt makes that clear. And if he intended that pairing all along, then Sumer was probably more likely to fall than Roosevelt was, so that also makes sense.

It remains to be seen if +1 commerce on coast tiles after spending a bunch of hammers can compete with +1 commerce on almost all tiles just from a trait. It's a risky approach in a 12-player game, since he's not nearly as strong if he doesn't get those wonders. There are other Ind civs, Bismarck for example, who get off to a faster start and could snatch the Oracle out from under him if they really try.

A secondary possible strategy for 2metra is to grab the Great Lighthouse. That would give him very valuable coastal cities, the ability to grab lots of them early, and a boost to their development. And Roosevelt certainly is a good leader for that wonder grab. Goes best if he gets both sea wonders, of course.

Still think Seven is just aiming for a bit of a handicap on himself. And I still don't have a clue what Kuro's thinking, but that's hardly new.

[Ichabod]

Roosevelt is the fastest TGLh possible, yeah. Maybe beatable by Bismarck, especially considering no coastal Capital (IIRC, there's no coastal starts in this game).

[suttree]

Globally lurking now.
Because of skim and I'm lazy: who are the players on the centre island?

[Serdoa]

Even though Roosevelt is the fastest, putting your eggs all in one basket is never a good idea imo, especially if you don't even know that you have enough coasts and islands to make it work. Even worse, you put yourself in one strategy and most players won't be able to adapt if that strategy isn't working out. Or alternatively are giving up so much just to go through with their strategy that they lose more than the gain. Even if he gets TGLH for example it will cost him expansion. If he had taken IND/IMP he might be able to make that back up. IND/EXP allow that as well. IND/ORG? What exactly is helping him in the early game? Exactly nothing. No problem if you don't aim to stunt your expansion - but that's exactly what he does if he goes for TGLH. If he gets unlucky he will have half the cities of the leader and no one to give him open borders. Or even worse just lose TGLH to one of the other IND-civs. The 30 hammers that you save on the LH are nice and all, but what if he is in the middle of his continent and needs 3-4 cities just to bridge to the coast at all?

[darrelljs]

what if he is in the middle of his continent and needs 3-4 cities just to bridge to the coast at all?

That is the key point...I picked Roosevelt in PBEM2 for tGL but it was a snaky continents map.

Darrell

[Mardoc]

Yeah, I don't claim that Metra's strategy is good, but at least it's coherent. He may be wrong, but he's not being random.

It requires the map to be both lots of water to make the wonders profitable, and big, so that the limit on growth rate is commerce. And requires that no one else steals the wonders he wants. Even if it all works as planned - that puts him just about the the same level as the Fin civs, right?

[spacetyrantxenu]

Zaldax chooses Byzantium. Why would anyone intentionally do that?