[SPOILERS] don't call it a comeback [luddite comes back]

[luddite]

Huts are on. I wonder how likely it is that I'll get gold/tech from a hut early on? I feel like it's pretty likely. If I get even a little gold I can pick up agriculture, otherwise I'll have to settle for fishing.

[luddite]

Other possibility... just go nuts with chopping settlers. I could finish two settlers by turn 30. Then settle both on the coast and they could (hopefully) work seafood.

[luddite]

So here's what I'm trying to decide between right now. There's probably still a little room to optimize these, but I doubt there's *too* much room to optimize. And a lot will depend on what I get from huts and what the map looks like as I explore, especially for coastal sites. But I have to decide which path I go down right from the beginning.

Path 1: settler first. research hunting, fishing/agriculture, pottery, animal husbandry. Settle first new city on the plains hill in the southwest. At the end of turn 35 I'll have 2 cities, size 3 and 2, with a pasture, 2 or 3 roads, one cottage done, one almost done, AH close to done. About 500 beakers researched all together. Final production: 12 food surplus, 5 hammers, 19 commerce, 1 upkeep. Two warriors finished, no forests chopped.

Path 2: worker->worker->settler. Research mining, bronze working, fishing. Settle once city on the plains in southwest, another on some coastal site TBD. At the end of turn 35 I'll have 3 cities, sizes 1,2,1, with a mine, 4 or 5 roads, and a workboat almost done (or done if I settle a coastal city first). Also about 500 beakers researched, maybe slightly less than path 1. 7 forests chopped. Final production: 10 food surplus, 4 hammers, 16 commerce, 2 upkeep. No warriors finished, 7 forests chopped.

Important caveat: Path 1 is all from working tiles that I can see on the real map, so it should be fairly realistic. Path 2 involves settling on tiles I can't see at all, so I'm taking wild guesses about what that might look like. It also makes it very hard to compare the paths after turn 35, since after that it's all about expanding out into the fog. Oh, and path 2 lets me work copper if I have that nearby.

Still. Just from the numbers, path 1 looks superior. It's strictly ahead in demos, and 2 warriors/0 forests chopped is a big advantage too. Path 2 has an extra city, but how much is that worth? Path 1 is still about 15 turns away from bronze working, but still have a lot more forests to chop when it gets there. But path 2 can continue chopping out more cities with the trees in the new cities. But how long can I go without any warriors?

[luddite]

Counterargument though: with path 2, all three cities will grow pretty soon and then my demos will look a lot better, whereas with path 1 I'll probably be stuck there for a while building a worker and settler. And path 2 produced an extra 100 hammers worth of settlers (counting the imperialist bonus) whereas path 1 only got an extra 30 hammers of warriors.

[luddite]

Another plan:

Settle 1E, worker->grow to 3->settler->grow to 40>settler. Tech hunting->fishing->pottery->AH. On turn 35 I've got those 4 techs plus a little bit of mining(about 550 beakers). Two cities, size 4 and 1. 1 worker, 1 warrior. 4 or 5 roads, pasture, cottage with 8 turns, 1 cottage almost done, one camp half done.

Turn 50: mining and bronze working done (total: 800 beakers). Three cities, size 4, 3, and 1. 3 workers, 2 warriors, 1 work boat just finished, 1 granary half done, 1 forest chopped. 1 hamlet and 1 cottage, a camp, pasture, mine, and 7 roads. 13 food surplus, 13 hammers, 24 commerce, 3 upkeep.

[luddite]

Plan 2 (chopping heavy) at T50: 3 cities, sizes 3,2.2. 3 workers, 8.5 forests chopped. fishing boats, pasture, camp, 2 mines, hamlet, cottage, 7 roads. about to finish agriculture, (total about 900 beakers, although i got about 100 gold from huts). Revolted to slavery. Two granaries and one monument done. 1 warrior.
Totals: 17 food surplus, 10 hammers, 26 commerce, 3 upkeep.

Overall: pretty similar to plan 3. More infrastructure done, but all my forests are gone also.

[luddite]

Plan 1 slightly modified (settler first, but bronze working before AH) at T50: 4 cities, sizes 3, 2, 2, 1. 4 workers, 3 warriors, 1 granary almost done. pasture, mine, hamlet, cottage, fishing boats. revolted to slavery, i think 6 forests chopped? pretty sure this is the best.

[luddite]

Doing a little refining on plan 1 (settler-first). Here's what I've got now:

Begin the same way- settle 1E, settler first then worker. Tech hunting first, then mining and BW. Then probably fishing, pottery, AH but that's map dependent. In this case the second city is stuck just working unimproved deer for a long time, but I have a lot more time to chop (and also reveal copper earlier for what that's worth).

Turn 50 stats: 4 cities, sizes 3/2/2/1. 4 workers, 2 warriors, 1 granary done, another close to done. pasture, 3 mines, 1 cottage done 1 almost done, fishing boat, 4.5 roads. 7 forests chopped, but spread out from all 4 cities so I still have forest near my capital. AH just finished, so about 800 beakers (basically the same as other paths). Demos: 18 food surplus, 12 hammers, 24 commerce, 3 upkeep. revolted to slavery.

[luddite]

So literally everyone else settled in place. Thats making me nervous that I'm missing something here.
OTOH moving my scout reveled sugar 2SE of the oasis. Should I move there...?

[luddite]

Cmon 6 food start, do your magic...