Yeah, I think we should leave the Meklars with Cygni as well, nevertheless I saw an easy snipe and I took it, but longterm a good tech capture will be worth more.
I might have built a colony ship, but I wanted to push us ahead with factories and tech which we needed dearly.
I may be late to the party, but one alternate opinion to Thrawn's: I love economic techs, and I reluctantly agree that sub-lights will have to wait for now even though they double our transports' speed and allow faster rapid-response fleets - but I think we need to make an investment in Weapons technology. Our only space-superiority weapons right now are lasers and Hyper-Vs, and that won't even change when our current tech comes in. What we have may hold for now, but we'll need a proper beam or missile before too much longer if the Mecs come after us in force or Random AI Alliance Cheese pulls someone else in with them.
If nothing exciting is available in the next tier or the need seems imminent once F-Bombs are complete, I definitely do consider Ion Cannons a real beam. The fighter version is fine against low-level shields - at least as good as NPGs in equal numbers up through shield 4 in fact, though usually a little more bulky - and heavy ions on capital ships can take on heavily-shielded enemies that would laugh at all of our current weapons.
Also, great turns, TheArchduke! Between the strong play from the entire team and Endoria going rich on us here, if something loony doesn't happen between now and my next turn set, I may have to find a way of making things interesting again intentionally!
(May 27th, 2017, 13:55)RefSteel Wrote: Also, great turns, TheArchduke! Between the strong play from the entire team and Endoria going rich on us here, if something loony doesn't happen between now and my next turn set, I may have to find a way of making things interesting again intentionally!
Be careful what you wish for. I get to play ahead of you. Anything could happen .
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Looks really great! Lacking Controlled Radiated really changes the complexion of this start - especially with Silicoids in the galaxy! (No, the AI doesn't know how to play them very well, but having our core surrounded by ultra-rich Silicoid worlds would not be a comfortable experience.)
I'm seeing a lot of techs that would be nice to steal, even from the more backward races: The Meklar will be a difficult target with their great computer tech, but their erratic nature and the inevitability of war probably means might as well try. I wouldn't mind picking up a scanner from the bears (or even trying for ion cannons, though gats are a lousy consolation prize) and our relations can probably stand a slight hit if we're careful, thanks to our NAP and trade. Likewise, Alkari Battle Computer 2 would be a little helpful, but the big prize there, even at risk of useless Hydrogen Fuel, is their Inertial Stabilizer. And as for the 'coids, that scanner would be nice, sure, but the real reason to go for computers is obvious: RC3!
With the Bulrathi - uninvadable, and the only race that's actually offered us a NAP and trade apparently - in an alliance with the Meklars, Thrawn's decision to accept Meklar peace for extra security is looking like an especially good call. Even so, once the peace expires, we'll have to hope the alliance expires on its own before INT-986 randomly declares on us again. That said, for purposes of surviving the next election (at the end of my turns) the most important thing is to stay out of war with the Mrrshans and the Silis.
I would say that maxing a planet provides more than a psychological benefit: It concentrates production in one place, which can be very important for expensive projects like (early) colships or (later) cruisers and dreadnoughts, and allows the direct production of reserves in case of a random event or surprise attack.
That said, I completely agree with Thrawn where pop growth is concerned. When I talk about maxing a planet, I mean maxing its factories, and doing so as its last population either arrives from off-world (as we did with our Ultra-Rich world here) or through natural growth. There was a time (yeeeeeeears ago) when I used to grow population and factories together with divided spending, but this is almost always a mistake: Spending on population growth makes sense only when growing onto already-existant idle factories or when meeting an emergency. (Examples of emergencies that sometimes qualify: Incoming enemy transports that will arrive before you can dislodge the enemy fleet, an upcoming election where you'll be on the cusp of a veto or a loss,* or sometimes preparation for an invasion.)
* - It's actually possible to avoid a diplo loss by just making sure you never get nominated until you have a veto, for instance by sending large numbers of transports between your worlds on the turn before the election, with ETAs of 2 turns or slightly more, since transports in space don't count toward your population for voting purposes. I never do this on purpose because I think it's kind of cheesy, but there's no rule against it, and if you do, it obviates the need to ever grow pop into a veto.
Likewise, building factories that will just sit idle - or that would without population spending - is generally a waste of resources that could be put into other needs (such as research) instead. And the more planets you have already "maxed," the less value there is in maxing a new one. (Unless the new one is Rich/UR/Art/Orion of course!)
In practice though, there's another good reason to let a world max out through its natural population growth: If you don't enjoy the mini-game of sending a bunch of transports around to make sure population is distributed optimally while carefully monitoring the number of factories, then doing so would be wasteful of the most important resources in the game: Your time and enjoyment! For most of the game, it would also generate only a marginal gain (if any; workers on long-distance transports could instead be on a planet, building things) relative to just letting population grow naturally, building roughly the right number of factories to employ everybody, and committing your resources to research, ships, or whatever else your strategic plan requires.
If you do like that mini-game though? Go for it! There are a lot of big and little things to enjoy about Orion, in grand strategy, micro-optimization, and everything in between.
Wow, there is a lot of war going on out there. That's really good for us - looks like it's slowed down Silicoid expansion and I suspect it's holding back Meklar growth. I'd expected them to be further ahead given their start.
Sounds as if we want to be looking to identify and then hit a target. Strategically, I think that the Meklar remain a problem. If given enough time to max all those planets they will be tough. While it would be nice to pick on someone weaker (cats, rocks) it doesn't help us rein in the big threat.
Following that logic, we will be at risk of having to fight the bears as well, and possibly the birds (no alliance there yet, but the joint war may generate one). Which is fine, as they own planets that we'd like to conquer.
So, some concrete questions (and this time I plan to wait for replies before playing!).
1) How soon do we want to try to take on Cygni? I note that it has 34 factories already.
2) What techs do we need for a quick strike at Cygni if it does get a base or two up? I'd hope that fusion bombs + sub-lights would be sufficient, but do we need more?
3) What other key military techs should I be looking for? I'd like fusion drives (as noted by Thrawn), a gun - ideally with a long range option, better planetary shields, some gropo.
That said my tech priorities are likely to be finishing PDS, getting Soil and then (hopefully) PSV, then fusion bombs to hopefully open up better weapons. And we do want sub-lights fairly urgently as well...
I plan to start espionage against the Meklar, Bulrathi and Alkari. Prime targets are IRC III, Inertial Stabilizer, Meklar computer tech; I wouldn't mind ion cannon if that's all we can get. They're all busy fighting, so would have trouble launching a big strike against us and we're probably going to want to fight them soon anyway.
Anyway, got it!
There was news along with the breakfast that my Robo-Valet silently (of course) brought me this morning. The careful arrangement of the eggcups against the teaspoons informed me that I had, once more, been selected for President! This was something of a surprise, as I had a vague idea that people were happy with the job that the other chappie had been doing, but a swift communication with my RV (using only raised eyebrows, of course) confirmed that I had indeed been summoned.
Oh well, the job had been largely ceremonial last time. Even the busiest day only involved picking something from a list of ideas that the boffins had run up and waving genially at departing colonials (ghastly people by the way - practically chatting in the aisles of their spaceships; having them several parsecs away suited everyone).
So I ran up the situation report and ... well, I am ashamed. Speaking before being spoken to is one of the President's privileges, and good form can be relaxed a little with ones own RV, but a true gentleman should, never, ever spray either invective or tea, regardless of the provocation. Let alone both.
Not only were there a whole lot more colonies (and communications logs indicating an awful lot of inappropriate talking), but we were in regular contact with several alien species. I was not sure which horrified me more. The Bulrathi kept on calling, wanting trade, and "non-agression pacts" and seemed to keep coming back regardless of how quickly we said yes. The Meklar had at least had the decency to take their ambassador away for a while, but it was not clear that replacing this with a wave of violence was actually an improvement. And now the horrible, grating thing was back, albeit with an offer of peace. I could see why Thrawn had stepped down.
I signalled my RV to keep the tea coming and settled down for a good think.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
The questions you posted need more thoughtful and complex answers than I can muster at 20 minutes to 2 AM, so I'll leave them to the rest of the team or for morning, whichever comes first - but I wanted to say, that intro story was an absolute delight!
(May 28th, 2017, 03:41)RefSteel Wrote: The questions you posted need more thoughtful and complex answers than I can muster at 20 minutes to 2 AM, so I'll leave them to the rest of the team or for morning, whichever comes first - but I wanted to say, that intro story was an absolute delight!
Glad you enjoyed it. Not quite up to the (literal) epic you posted over in the X-COM thread, but it's a start.
It's probably going to be tomorrow before I can actually play any turns (time to grab the British summer whilst it's here), so plenty of time for comments and suggestions.
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
1) Cygni is a good target when the Meks declare war again - either on us or say the Bulrathi. It's also a good target if they build a lot more factories with a small number of bases. I don't know when that will be because there are significant random factors in the AI's decision-making (which is a good thing; predictable AIs are neither strong nor fun).
2) Sublights won't directly help much for taking on Meklar missile bases; they're mainly useful for our transports and strategic speed. Fusion Bombs won't fit on a small for a while, but if we're going for a larger ship, they'll be a major improvement over nukes with BC3. I wouldn't build the current-technology large ship Thrawn is talking about (unless he knows something I don't about the Meklar fleet) but if we do build it, its one and only use would be exactly what Thrawn described: To attack Cygni as soon as it has a base up (and hopefully no new defensive technology) and prevent any more bases from getting built. Even so, I consider that a very iffy proposition. Maybe worth the investment in one large ship out of the UR if the diplomatic fall-out won't be too bad, but not a bet I'd make personally. (Especially with nuclear engines; one of the things sublights are good for is getting a fleet to the front before it starts going obsolete.)
3) Improved Space Scanner, if it's in our tree. It's hard to overstate the importance of accurate long-range intelligence about the movement of enemy fleets. Merc missiles are good too, as are Scatters situationally, but I agree with you that new missiles should be secondary to a beam.
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