[SPOILERS] Cornflakes - Do lurkers prefer candy instead of popcorn??

[Cornflakes]

The government legacy policy cards were changed in Gathering Storm to only become available after you change out of the appropriate government. I.E, no oligarchy stacking.

Additionally, the extra yields you are seeing were most likely deposited by some weather event, probably a sandstorm for the first two and a flood for the third.

Thanks! That makes sense on the policy card, it sounded a bit odd for a “legacy” policy to be effective while the government was still active. In that case I could either:

1) adopt Oligarchy very briefly while chopping out the Tier 1 building, and then swap to Autocracy and still get the bonus via Legacy card (effectively trading the Diplomatic slot from Oligarchy for the Autocracy bonuses and locking in the Wild Card as a military slot).

2) Wait until the war is over to complete the Tier 1 building shortly before swapping into the next tier of government. I guess the real question is how much value is the government title from the Tier 1 building? I think having an extra governor ready to drop into the first city I capture will be very valuable from a loyalty perspective. I don’t want to move Pingala from the capital to an occupied city where the bonuses will be wasted, and I want the flexibility to move Magnus as desired without tying him up babysitting an occupied city to prevent it from revolting away. Or I could just plan to let the city revolt and re-capture with follow-up troops?

[Cornflakes]

T45 Civ Comparison

Civ	Cities	Pop	Techs	Civics	Gold	Faith	Districts	Military
India	2	7	6 (+12.2/turn)	5 (+11.8/turn)	92 (+7.3/turn)	2 (+0/turn)	1: (1) Campus	57
Japan	3	10	6 (+10.9/turn)	3 (+6.6/turn)	213 (+18/turn)	121 (+6.3/turn)	2: (2) HS	48
Hungary	3	9	6 (+???/turn)	4 (+???/turn)	??? (+???/turn)	??? (+???/turn)	1: (1) Campus	???
China	2	6	5 (+???/turn)	6 (+???/turn)	??? (+???/turn)	??? (+???/turn)	1: (1) HS	???

Biggest improvement for me: Culture +60% thanks to Pingala establishment + promotion. Biggest improvement for Japan: Also culture +60%, but from a lower base. It looks like TheArchduke built a monument (with production not cash rush). We essentially did the same thing except the TAD cash rushed the builder and built a monument, while I built a builder and cash rushed a monument. Japanese gold production also skyrocketed up to +18!! Surely that must be a trader to a commercial CS? How will he use that gorgeous gold income? China is accumulating GProphet points even though they already recruited a prophet and founded a religion  Also China is the first to 6 civics but surely can't have Political Philosophy yet since they just build their first district and there's no way they reached Political Philosophy on T45 without the State Workforce boost. I estimate that I'm behind about 30 culture compared to China. I wonder how the other players chose to play their first two governor promotions? I'll be interested to find out after the game how the governors are valued and how they impacted our various strategies.

   

All players now have 1 district except for TheArchduke, which makes sense for the State Workforce boost and Japanese to half price HS. I have a few turns lead on the GScientist. I'm not planning to follow up and complete the 2nd campus until the war is completed so it's likely that Alhambram will pass me. I'm planning to choose Exodus of the Evangelists golden age dedication to claim the next prophet. I need the era to wait at least 13 turns so that the next prophet remains just 60 cost! As long as the Japanese GPP goes above 40 before the 10 turn countdown starts we should be good. I'm not sure how the game calculates the era roll but I *think* the 10T countdown triggers when half of the players reach the next era of either tech or civics. China I expect to unlock Political Philosophy any turn now so I'm going to delay Horseback Riding by 1 turn to ensure that we don't reach the classical era for 4 turns.

   

It has been a while since I posted an overview screenshot but now much has changed. Still on 2 cities and it will be T50 and T51 when cities 3 and 4 get founded. This feels very very slow   I comfort myself with the fact that I saved hammers by running Colonization and beat Alhambram to the first district. I also think that I unlocked the first Governor in the world. Scooter is still on 2 cities so that's something. My trader completed this turn and started a route to TheArchduke's border city. If the classical era countdown does indeed start when I complete HBR (assuming China already has hit Political Philosophy), the era should roll to classical by the time the trader crosses the river on the return trip which I think will build a bridge there. I decided to delay Political Philosophy by 3 turns in order to speed up slotting Maneuver policy by 6 turns. Chocolate is going onto immediate Horseman/Varu production as soon as HBR comes in. As mentioned above I'm delaying HBR by 1 turn (currently at 2 turns remaining) to help ensure that the next GProphect remains 60 cost. That timing happily works out perfectly to for Chocolate to finish the builder. Gummy Worms will build the Government Plaza (5 turns) after finishing the settler, then also begin Horseman/Varu production.

I did some testing of the resource stockpile mechanics. Resource stockpile is capped at 50, and can only be expanded through buildings (e.g. barracks). Horsemen cost 20 horses, and I can accumulate at a rate of 4/turn meaning I can only afford 1 every 5 turns. In order to maximize the number of horsemen I need to start using horses from the stockpile ASAP. So at what point does the game consider the horses to be used, thus reducing the stockpile and allowing it to re-grow?

1) stockpile is reduced when horseman is placed at front of queue. If added to back of queue the stockpile remains un-changed. If added to front of queue and then moved to back of queue on the same turn, stockpile initially decreases but then jumps back up once horseman is no longer first in queue.
2) after putting 1 turn of production into a horseman, moving it to the back of the queue does not cause the stockpile to decrease. Therefore I need to put 1 turn of production into a horseman ASAP in order to allow my horses to continue accumulating. That 1 turn of production buys me 5 turns until I need to start another horseman at another city to continue allowing horses to accumulate. I will have 4 cities that can repeat this process so I can easily allow all horses to be added to the stockpile and not wasted once I unlock HBR (3 turns).

We are 19 turns from DoF ending. Let's call that 15 turns since I'll need a couple turns to move to the front. so I'll have at most the current 50 + 15*4 = 110 horses / 20 = 5 horsemen. Wow, I can easily Magnus Chop 5 horsemen. It seems like resources are going to be the limiting factor in war. And here is where India has another advantage which I didn't even consider in the pre-game analysis ... Varu are resource-less! This means that even if TheArchduke clearly sees the attack coming (which he should if he pays attention to resource stockpile on the trade screen), and even if he tries to match my buildup unit-for-unit, I can very likely bring significantly more force to bear at the beginning of the war purely from a resource availability perspective. Japan has not connected Iron yet. If Japan only has 1 source of Iron then even if they connect it now they will only have enough accumulated to upgrade 1 sword by DoF expiration, and 1 more a turn or two later if they connect iron immediately! Japanese resources will be my prime targets for pillage. I will try and defog as much of the Japanese interior before DoW so that I can more effectively plan troop deployment and vectors of attack. ... of course, resource trades from the other players could help support Japan but I don't anticipate that taking effect until after it becomes obvious that Japan needs the resources to survive ... hopefully it will be too late by then to matter.

[suboptimal]

Regarding China's accumulation of Great Prohet Points my understanding is that points of a given type that you can't recruit are converted to faith, though I dont know if that's a 1:1 conversion or not. For some reason the game keeps counting the points in the GP screen.

[Cornflakes]

Iron will be important for cracking walls with Swordsmen. I'll have HBR in 2, followed by Bronze working in 4 more (maybe 3 if I get a lot of overflow). I won't need swords immediately because as long as I can run down and destroy the Japanese army I can wear down cities at my leisure. I'll also be able to upgrade warrior > sword immediately upon reaching 20 iron so that will speed things up as well. Here's a sketch of the possible locations where iron spawns ... note that for some reason Iron cannot be located on tiles with fresh water. I have identified all the non-freshwater hills in the region:

   

GREEN are the best tiles, either inside my culture already mines, or easily acquired by first border pop at City_4 with a builder charge available to mine. YELLOW are 2nd ring and could be purchased if not acquired in a timely manner, Chocolate will have a builder immediately available but City_3 will not for about 5 turns after I reveal Iron. ORANGE are 3rd ring and more expensive. RED will require another city to acquire.

The tile I marked Fingers Crossed sticks out as a bare hill among jungle area that might contain Iron and is easily improved.

[Cornflakes]

T149: Made contact with Alhabram of Hungary

   

152 military power already   That is the power of Hungary's suzerain ability at work ... take Amani as first governor, put her in a city state with 1 envoy > wait 5 turns to become Suzerain > levy CS military to get 2 free envoys > move Amani to another CS with 1 envoy > repeat. Alhambram will be able to put a scary army together with ease while continuing development, and resources won't even be an issue for upgrading his levy troops. Alhambram has 3 diplomatic points so it looks like he claimed suzerainty of his first CS 3 turns ago. He has some healthy stats at 16/t, 16/t, 4/t. Let's take a look at the overall geography as far as I have revealed ...

   

Hungary is in the northeast, China presumably in the southeast. Notice first of all the large lakes cutting off Japan and I from the rest of the map. There is a solid choke point at Japan's 3rd city between those lakes, with two 1-tile passes. When (and if) I can conquer Japan I should have a relatively secure border to develop and fill out my backlines. The norther warrior will follow PURPLE to check out the east before dropping south along the lake. The central warrior escorting City_4 settler will head east along BLUE (started this turn) to defog the Japanese interior. As the DoF winds down these warriors will probably place themselves where they can most effectively pillage and draw defenders away from the front city. If I can manage to take out Japan's Iron then so much better. I'm researching Bronze Working now to reveal Iron, having completed HBR this turn. 

I decided to start a Varu immediately at Chocolate, rather than putting 1-turn into a horseman. City 3 is founding next turn and will spend 1-turn on a horseman before building a builder. This wastes 4 horses but I have a lot of overflow this turn starting a Varu immediately speeds it up by 2 turns, and the follow-up Varu by 1-turn (maybe 2). That will allow 1st Varu to reach the front by the time DoF expires, with 2nd Varu 1-2 turns short of the front.

Gummies will finish Government Plaza in 3 turns meaning Magnus will be established in 8. I'm planning to put Magnus at City_4 first since there are 3 forests + Stone and I'll have 4 builder charges there to chop. Also the chops will speed things up there and allow at least a Varu + horseman from that city to reach Space Lion by DoF expiration. I'm planning on having the following forces built and at the front or within 2 turns by the time DoF expires:

Chocolate: 2 Varu, 1 horseman 
Gummy Worms: 1 Varu
City_3: 1 Horseman
City_4: 1 Varu, 2 horsemen

This will just about use up all my available resources. This will also use up all the space available for maneuvering. Some of the earlier units will follow BLUE as well to get behind Space Lion if TheArchduke leaves the pass open. I'm also going to try and get Open Borders from TheArchduke as soon as he get Early Empire (doesn't have it yet due to dashed borders and only 3 civics completed).

[Cornflakes]

T51: Running quick ... in RL


   

But here's a quick screenshot. Haven't had time yet to harvest the data for the T50 civ comparison. But I'll be hitting Political Philosophy on T52 after having diverted to pick up Military Tradition first! I think that I'll be the first to hit PP unless Scooter hits it on the same turn I do. We are both at 18 civics score now and I think he had to have diverted to either Mysticism or Military Tradition as well due to how early he hit 6 civics (I don't think he could have hit PP by T45, that would be absolutely blazing fast).

Era ends in 10 turns and Japan will for sure found a religion before then.

I decided to waste 2 turns of horses accumulation and spend the first 20 at Hot Tamales (oh yeah, I'm up to 4 cities now which I think is highest in the world except maybe Hungary is equal ... we'll have more firm numbers when I have a chance to get the Civ Comparison).

First Varu will be out in 3 turns. And Barbarians approach from the southeast! No barb camp in sight though so it will be a while before the outbreak reaches my borders. That might come at an awkward time though for the war.

[Cornflakes]

   

Barbarian pillaged our quarry nothing I could do to prevent that since barbarian scout appeared from the fog last turn with no barb camp visible. The pillage makes me think that its home camp has already been destroyed by Palenque across the desert since I didn't think scouts would pillage until first reporting back to home base.

Era ends in 9 turns. It appears I am the first to Political Philosophy because I received 2 era points for classical civic? Chocolate will be completing the first Varue end of turn for 4 more points. My first horseman will be chopped out of Hot Tamales (Gummies will swap and complete a Varu first) as soon as Magnus establishes. Magnus was appointed this turn thanks to Government Plaza so the chop will be before the era rolls. That should earn me 2 as the first horse unit in the world leaving me 1 point short. Eastern scout is going to veer south and try to meet Scooter for another 1 [+ 1 for meeting all rivals?]. Worst case scenario I use a builder to plop down a Stepwell for 4 era points, but I'd rather save those points for the next era.

Annnnnnd ... the above is already out-dated since a new turn came in as I was typing this and I actually met Scooter on the interturn earning +1 for contact and +3 for meeting all players. That combined with the Varu put me at 25/25 guaranteeing a golden age. I also checked the diplomatic screens and Scooter and Alhambram are both in classical governments (Autocracy and Oligarchy, respectively). Hungarian rent-a-swords are making their way south towards China   Hungary has 237 strength compared to China's 81. I hope Scooter is prepared!

[Cornflakes]

One other thing I forgot to mention. I offered Alhambram 10 tribute to help ensure that his scout didn’t pillage the trader. The road is important to the road effort, and the gold that it earns will regain the tribute in 3 turns. He accepted the tribute and moved on with his scout.

[Cornflakes]

Buried in work so little time for reporting. Only 1 turn over the weekend though so not much missed. 8 turns to DoF expiration. War preparation is full steam ahead. Varu #3 and #4 will be completed in 4-5 turns at Chocolate + Gummies. Magnus will be established next turn and I have 4 chops available at Hot Tamales, with 2 designated for Varu and 2 for horsemen. I will be a couple horses short next turn and will therefore put the first 2 chops into Varu (#2 completing and overflowing about half into #6). In 3 turns I'll be chopping out Horseman #1 and #2 and then transferring Magnus over to Gummies where I'll chop probably Swords+Ram.

[Cornflakes]

Well, I just wasted 30 (the entire production of Hot Tamales since founding ). I thought that chop overflow into the same type of item was carried over (i.e. chop a horseman, the overflow carries over into another horseman). Nope. I had a horseman at 30/80, chopped for 40*1.5*1.5 with Magnus + Maneuver, and ended up with about 10 overflow instead of the expected 40. The entire Maneuver production vanished, which was the equivalent of the 30 production already invested. If I had instead put that production into a Varu I could have chopped out both the Varu AND the horseman this turn. Instead I'm out 30 production