To the Lurkers
Having gone through the lurkers’ thread I figured I’d make some comments and provide some of the thinking, right or wrong on my part.
Japper’s Scout
My immediate thinking in attacking his scout was that I didn’t want my opponents to have visibility, even in the fog, of my territory. I considered a lack of visibility of the map in my territory to be an advantage that I was willing to defend. I don’t know how successful I was in that regard (yet). Understanding all of the meta in a situation like this, just like the next point, remains a (massive) work in progress.
Unfocused/Lack of Long Term Plan/Big Picture Strategy
Yup, guilty as charged. That’s been a constant weakness of mine in any strategy game situation, be it here in Civ 6 or playing Axis & Allies or Risk 30 years ago. It’s something I know I need to work on and will be a continuing work in progress. Recognizing what is, and is not, a “decisive” advantage and then how to use it is something I’m still working on. An overriding concern of mine through the second half of the game was that rho21 would attempt a breakthrough somewhere, which would have been disastrous. That defense-first mindset is what made my offensive play...offensive.
As Sulla pointed out my not delaying techs to get out cheaper builds was a Bad Idea ™. Two things pushing me in that direction were lack of gold for upgrades and that I had fallen into a “must keep tech pace with rho” mindset which was ultimately damaging to my buildouts. Likewise, in looking back at things with the lurker comments in mind I need to get a better handle on unit squandering.
The First Attack On Geneva
Yes, it wasn’t enough ships. Had I brought more ships it would have been razed on the turn I attacked. Sulla commented that I had more coastal cities than any other civ. Might be true until you look at the situation at that point in time – I had only two, Harborcoat and High Speed, both production constrained (Harborcoat was at 10
, High Speed I think at that point was 12 or 13). Getting a lot of ships built out would have been difficult as the cities were chopped out by that point. I didn’t place the Harbor at Find for a third coastal location until after the Geneva attack was in the process of failing. The quadrireme → frigate upgrade path would have been workable had I been paying better attention.
Attacking Geneva Again, with Battleships
By the time I had even my three battleships out Geneva had Urban Defenses up and running. I suppose stuffing 6-7 battleships in there would have gotten the job done but that’s before considering the fact that Geneva was already up to a city defense of 76 when the first attack failed. Battleships against Geneva, even 6 or 7 of them, would have been massacred by rho21’s field cannons before I got the walls down because by that point the city walls were at 90+ and Urban Defenses were up and running. That would have also required slow-building them at cities that, at that point, were still in the 10-20 production per turn range (I was using Find to keep my research and economy running).
Regarding CMF’s “smash Geneva” comment on July 24th, at that point Geneva had Urban Defenses and a city strength of 101. My battleships would have been at attacking at 84 and doing 50% damage to the walls – ie 7 points of damage per attack. It would have taken three battleships six turns, without interference or attacks from anyone, just to get through the walls. I also would have had to put at least one of them within range of the city to gain a sight line and all of them would have been in range of land-based attacks from rho. Three battleships wasn’t going to be enough and would have resulted in a worse situation than the first attack.
Likewise at Perseus there was only one spot I could shell the city from and not be within range of land-based ranged units. (look at the T141 screenshot – only the tile 3NW of the city center was out of land-based range) With Urban Defenses a naval assault against that city would have suffered the same fate as the first one. As my ambush on the Greek battleship showed it doesn’t take much from ranged land units to really do in a navy.
Diminished
CMF’s analysis was correct, this was supposed to be a jump point for an attempt to take Kongo from the south, but then the Greek cavalry showed up. I also couldn’t raze the city when the Greek cavalry showed up (T162) as I had already taken it on Turn 160.
Not Attacking Bryson
I had no line of sight to the city from the ocean (that I could tell) and could not place a spy there to gain it. I think the only location I could shoot from, had I uncovered it, would have only allowed one battleship to fire. I’ll know more about this location once I go through rho21’s thread.
City #20
I think CMF was referring to Driver 8. Driver 8 was settled primarily for the luxury resources and to establish a pull back position if Greece turned its tanks on Diminished. Boy in the Well was for the oil, which was third ring to Kenneth. Driver 8 was settler #12.
War Weariness
War Weariness is accumulated on a per-combat basis based upon the era and the location of the combat. From what I recall attacking a unit that is within its own territory incurs more war weariness to the attacker. The defender accumulates at the same rate as the attacker. After the Medieval Era you accumulate 104 war weariness points per combat in foreign territory and 400 points gives you -1 war weariness in a city. I hadn’t had truffles hooked up at that point in the game and I had a couple of cities teetering just above the point of unrest & rebellion. A “formal” war isn’t much better, slowing the accumulation rate to 80 points per turn.
Having gone through the lurkers’ thread I figured I’d make some comments and provide some of the thinking, right or wrong on my part.
Japper’s Scout
My immediate thinking in attacking his scout was that I didn’t want my opponents to have visibility, even in the fog, of my territory. I considered a lack of visibility of the map in my territory to be an advantage that I was willing to defend. I don’t know how successful I was in that regard (yet). Understanding all of the meta in a situation like this, just like the next point, remains a (massive) work in progress.
Unfocused/Lack of Long Term Plan/Big Picture Strategy
Yup, guilty as charged. That’s been a constant weakness of mine in any strategy game situation, be it here in Civ 6 or playing Axis & Allies or Risk 30 years ago. It’s something I know I need to work on and will be a continuing work in progress. Recognizing what is, and is not, a “decisive” advantage and then how to use it is something I’m still working on. An overriding concern of mine through the second half of the game was that rho21 would attempt a breakthrough somewhere, which would have been disastrous. That defense-first mindset is what made my offensive play...offensive.
As Sulla pointed out my not delaying techs to get out cheaper builds was a Bad Idea ™. Two things pushing me in that direction were lack of gold for upgrades and that I had fallen into a “must keep tech pace with rho” mindset which was ultimately damaging to my buildouts. Likewise, in looking back at things with the lurker comments in mind I need to get a better handle on unit squandering.
The First Attack On Geneva
Yes, it wasn’t enough ships. Had I brought more ships it would have been razed on the turn I attacked. Sulla commented that I had more coastal cities than any other civ. Might be true until you look at the situation at that point in time – I had only two, Harborcoat and High Speed, both production constrained (Harborcoat was at 10
, High Speed I think at that point was 12 or 13). Getting a lot of ships built out would have been difficult as the cities were chopped out by that point. I didn’t place the Harbor at Find for a third coastal location until after the Geneva attack was in the process of failing. The quadrireme → frigate upgrade path would have been workable had I been paying better attention. Attacking Geneva Again, with Battleships
By the time I had even my three battleships out Geneva had Urban Defenses up and running. I suppose stuffing 6-7 battleships in there would have gotten the job done but that’s before considering the fact that Geneva was already up to a city defense of 76 when the first attack failed. Battleships against Geneva, even 6 or 7 of them, would have been massacred by rho21’s field cannons before I got the walls down because by that point the city walls were at 90+ and Urban Defenses were up and running. That would have also required slow-building them at cities that, at that point, were still in the 10-20 production per turn range (I was using Find to keep my research and economy running).
Regarding CMF’s “smash Geneva” comment on July 24th, at that point Geneva had Urban Defenses and a city strength of 101. My battleships would have been at attacking at 84 and doing 50% damage to the walls – ie 7 points of damage per attack. It would have taken three battleships six turns, without interference or attacks from anyone, just to get through the walls. I also would have had to put at least one of them within range of the city to gain a sight line and all of them would have been in range of land-based attacks from rho. Three battleships wasn’t going to be enough and would have resulted in a worse situation than the first attack.
Likewise at Perseus there was only one spot I could shell the city from and not be within range of land-based ranged units. (look at the T141 screenshot – only the tile 3NW of the city center was out of land-based range) With Urban Defenses a naval assault against that city would have suffered the same fate as the first one. As my ambush on the Greek battleship showed it doesn’t take much from ranged land units to really do in a navy.
Diminished
CMF’s analysis was correct, this was supposed to be a jump point for an attempt to take Kongo from the south, but then the Greek cavalry showed up. I also couldn’t raze the city when the Greek cavalry showed up (T162) as I had already taken it on Turn 160.
Not Attacking Bryson
I had no line of sight to the city from the ocean (that I could tell) and could not place a spy there to gain it. I think the only location I could shoot from, had I uncovered it, would have only allowed one battleship to fire. I’ll know more about this location once I go through rho21’s thread.
City #20
I think CMF was referring to Driver 8. Driver 8 was settled primarily for the luxury resources and to establish a pull back position if Greece turned its tanks on Diminished. Boy in the Well was for the oil, which was third ring to Kenneth. Driver 8 was settler #12.
War Weariness
Quote:1)His policy of not shooting "because that incurs war weariness" - surely Japper/rho would incur more, right? If not, then the WW system is seriously messed up. I just can't fathom how it's not worth it to damage enemy units when you have an advantage because the simple act of doing so harms you more. He also did the same with his battleships earlier, avoiding shelling.
War Weariness is accumulated on a per-combat basis based upon the era and the location of the combat. From what I recall attacking a unit that is within its own territory incurs more war weariness to the attacker. The defender accumulates at the same rate as the attacker. After the Medieval Era you accumulate 104 war weariness points per combat in foreign territory and 400 points gives you -1 war weariness in a city. I hadn’t had truffles hooked up at that point in the game and I had a couple of cities teetering just above the point of unrest & rebellion. A “formal” war isn’t much better, slowing the accumulation rate to 80 points per turn.
Sending units to their death since 2017.
Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
Don't do what I did: PBEM 3 - Arabia , PBEM 6 - Australia This worked well enough: PBEM 10 - Aztecs Gamus Interruptus: PBEM 14 - Indonesia
Gathering Storm Meanderings: PBEM 15 - Gorgo You Say Pítati, I Say Potato: PBEM 17 - Nubia The Last of the Summer Wine: PBEM 18 - Eleanor/England
Rhymin' Simon: PBEM 20 - Indonesia (Team w/ China)
That's what it's there for. Though it can sometimes be hard to take it's how one learns (and I need plenty of that). Besides, the lurker threads have been getting less harsh with each PBEM I play so I must be moving in the right direction. The PBEMs here are my only experience with any sort of MP play so between that and my general mental wiring my learning curve is a bit steeper than usual.
The comments in the lurker thread, as with PBEM 6, are instructive and try to avoid having them make me feel too down for very long. 