[59] Miguelito and Rusten move stacks to berimbau rythms

[Rusten]

I was really keen on going corps this game as it's huge size and they were removed for all my RtR games, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. We are lagging behind on our courthouse builds and if we are going to conquer the eastern continent then the maintenance costs will be massive. Might be better to just skip courthouses and go SP. Maybe corps is feasible if we save a GE for Versailles, but it's a lot of effort. Thoughts?

Are we drafting every turn again now? Big numbers will help speed up eastern conquest.

[Miguelito]

I was really keen on going corps this game as it's huge size and they were removed for all my RtR games, but I'm starting to have second thoughts. We are lagging behind on our courthouse builds and if we are going to conquer the eastern continent then the maintenance costs will be massive. Might be better to just skip courthouses and go SP. Maybe corps is feasible if we save a GE for Versailles, but it's a lot of effort. Thoughts?

Are we drafting every turn again now? Big numbers will help speed up eastern conquest.

I am a bit worried about losing the race. Ichabod got Chemistry 1 turn before us (we are up the whole Nat path, but that isn't much if he's teching faster than us). I looked up GP born and there were 3 GEs born in unknown lands during the early game, and one from Cairo who I think is not too much of a threat.

But I still want to try it. I think you overestimate distance maintenance on this map. Even in La Laouê, our most distant city on the western edge of Spain, it's only 5.x before the courthouse. That means that at least after Corp any new city should pay for itself with trade routes alone (and we are long past the conqueror's plateau for number of cities). Actually I want to propose that we content ourselves with courthouses in Spain, and build the FP in an Mjmd city. 
So I think the maintenance reduction from SP will not help that much, and we have few workshops (although they are getting more attractive) and no watermills. And those tiles don't get the Fin bonus, so Emancipation cottages seem nicer. And remember that the mod transferred the +10% hammers over to emancipation.
So yes, I'm still after Mining. Somebody really should attack Ichabod, he's in Serfdom and teching like crazy while developing his astro island. But his one neighbour is the Man of Culture Cornflakes, and the other is Frozen who is playing the same game, and while he's an excellent player he's also known on Civforum for passivity. Now, civac is almost done conquering Elkad, so, how about sending those heaps of soldier points west and be buddies? (well, Ichabod has Frigates, but will he actually build them i nrelevant numbers?)

Speaking of, the turn started with these offers from civac:




And the sugar for pig/rice that we offered before. Those are numpad directions to tell us where to plant; for reference, here's the area:


I don't like that spot, but I suppose he just wants to have the silver for him alone, and that's ok. I think we should plant on the jungle S of Marble and the planned orange dot. The jungle city is a bit worse but more defensible and definitely worth it if it means civac's goodwill. If you don't object I'll signal that back to him.

civac also went the cutest way possible to send us his scout:


Not that we didn't have a land connection on two points for him to come over.

Here's how the astro island is progressing:


The settler for purple is completing this turn, and will be chained in. Sadly the first galleon was one tile short, so the chain spot sign is a lie and he'll take an extra turn, but what can you do. Workboat will take a long time, but at least the city can get started with the 3f whales meanwhile. We have 4 workers in the SW corner, who brought the corn to 2/5 this turn. We'll ferry over two more next turn or the one after (have to check how the galleon movement shakes out), who probably should start with the rice in the NE.
Btw Lewynn if you're reading, I still have a smile looking at these islands and how nicely they make good on the promise of the lurker thread title. And I also think it's clever map design; an unjungled island would be too profitable. Good job.

To answer your final question - currently I'm only drafting cities that run out of draft anger, and I think that's correct as well for now. Spain really needs more pop, and a lot of other cities are also busy growing back. And the musketeers are not needed right now. But if you identify cities that to you seem underdrafted I'd be happy to consider them. Fwiw here is how I'm hoping the next couple turns will go down:

1. We finish settling the astro island, which currently is the cheapest and fastest way to get new land (although without chops it's not exactly speedy). Then bring back most of the galleons for the Mjmd invasion.
   
2. Build a wave of frigates from the prebuilt caravels, followed by a smaller wave of galleons. We currently own 7 galleons total, I think we are fine to attack with 10+.
   
3. Research Steel, which at current breakeven should be 7 turns. We're still getting a few improvements like the bank in Bonfim this turn. First and foremost for safety against civac with cannons, later on we can start drydocks. Also need to identify an Iron Works city - Malandro? Angola after all?
   
4. Invasion should roll around the time we finish Steel. So, go back to full on drafting in like 3 turns?
   

Input needed: Agree with Orange dot / S of Marble as Elkad replacement cities? I'd send that to civac then

[Rusten]

I agree with Orange, but I think on the marble might be better. The city culture overlaps better which means we'll win all the 2nd rings. He won't be able to hit us with cannons/artillery from the fog. Settling next to pig not on a hill is out of the question, yes. I think he can live with that -- we're not settling 1SE of the silver, but on the same longitude as his suggested spot. We can even gift him the silver, I don't care. For me it's more about being able to defend than the resource.

Let's do Mining corp then. It will be fun to try at least.
Your plans sound good.

[Miguelito]

The marble is not a hill either though. My reading of civac's offer is that he wants the silver for himself, which is fair enough (this is the only one on the mainland, but we get two on our astro island, which he has none of).
So, S of marble is better defended with the river bend, and if it gets us good relations and makes him send his immense power overseas that would be well worth it. Ftr if it came to a war and he's on the offense I think defending Orange and Warwick is pointless; the crucial part will be to dominate the sea and prevent him from sending a SoD into our core, which I think we are well set up for.

[Rusten]

You're right about the river bend. We can just consider the western city expendable. Go for your spot.

[Miguelito]

Caravels don't queue upgrade to frigates!!!!1!!!

Very annoyed at myself, as I recently reviewed how the mechanics of that work, and really should have noted it. At least I did not whip any. Basically when I was very scared of civac's galleons some 20-15 turns ago I started caravels in a lot of places, then when we got peace pushed them down in the queues to upgrade on Chemistry. This is a pretty large amount of hammers rotting in queues or floating in little use ships while costing maintenance. Something on the order of 300-500, haven't counted. 3 caravels actually finished this turn. 

What this means is basically to keep the plan from the last report, just more pop whipped for frigates, and less frigates overall at least short term.

To give some good news as well, we're 1st in food again, and are closing the power gap to civac. Gives me hope we will be able to send some soldiers overseas.

[Rusten]

Caravels are still useful, especially against the backwards continent -- finish them. They're good sentries, and if my memory serves me correctly they can also be used to defend loaded galleons (chosen before said unit).

I think we should settle the wine island towards Civac. We have superior culture there and I'd hate for him to do it, he'd be able to fork our continent. We can keep the fish long term. Need to do this right away to start growing and whipping culture buildings.

[Miguelito]

The thing is we have 12 caravels already, and you can only use so many, but I'll consider finishing the far progressed ones.

Which wine island, north or south? (The one between us and Elkad, or between former Donovan and AT?)
South I'd agree, although I'm not sure whether I share the urgency.

[Rusten]

The one where we captured territory from Elkad and he settled up on you. That's our sea passage.

[Miguelito]

GG Elkad.

My biggest regret so far in this game has been to throw away our friendship for dubious gains, panicking that civac might get all of England. That was scummy, and while fighting civac together was not feasible as he could fork half of the empire with his galleons, leaving you alone might have enabled you to resist him far longer - although he did bring an impressive stack.

My second biggest regret might be not to have backstabbed you far earlier and charging the knights into Donovan's pikes instead. I absent mindedly had just renewed our fish/fish and could not bring myself to be so unfaithful. Also I convinced myself that Don was actually the better option; didn't work out too well, but fine.

I hope you had an enjoyable game regardless.


Rusten, regarding the island, this side of sushi he'll just never get culture on it to place a city. It's 2nd and 3rd ring for his recently established city, and we have cities with 2nd and 3rd ring who have been pumping culture into it since forever. So I don't see why we'd have to hurry. He'll get the fish eventually, but that should not be a big loss?
Also he did not really settle up on us, but rather replaced a city that he had taken from Elkad and which I razed. I did not love it, but can live with it.
With forts he could sneak a fleet through that city, but I don't think it gives him that much of an advantage so as to bulldoze grown cottages. Should watch out anyways of course.