RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

That was a quick war.

I like the reparations: Free for MH, but they benefit you+Ruff immensely.

Assuming MH says yes, what are your intentions for athlete?
And your GG: is he going to make a Medic III unit?

Well I seem to have accidentally forgotten to tell athlete that mh and I are about to sign Peace; I wonder what he'll do?

That may be a bit of a risk, since if he does declare on me mh may back out of the peace deal and I'd end up on the wrong end of the 2v1, but he seems to be playing opportunisticaly and now that Bursa is not threatened he is more likely to turn on mh. If he does, then he has broken an agreement and therefore I can deem him untrustworthy and consider breaking our deal (yes I know that I've been egging him on to switch sides, but tha doesn't mean I ever thought it was actually the right move for him). If he stays on the sidelines then I will probably honour our NAP agreement for the remaining 15t (by which time Ruff & I will also have Cavs & Rifles), even though it would probably be better to attack sooner rather than later.

The GG will probably be a Medic III - it seems most needed at this point. I'll probably use the 6xp Horse Archer which is already C1, Medic rather than the 2xp Chariot even though that would make him slightly more vulnerable to attack.

[Dreylin]

I wonder if I'll regret not having told athlete that mh and I had agreed to Peace....

Andy,

Well I can't say as you will like this. I've thrown my weight fully in the corner of MH and Soooo and will no longer discuss anything so long as we are at war. I've decided you must pay for your treacherous attack on my buddhist ally. Well not quite like that but a little role playing never hurts. I imagine right now, atleast if I were in your shoes, I'd be pretty disgusted with me and it doesn't exactly sit well with me but if you have the stomach to read on, please do.

I decided my chances of actually winning are slim to none and if I allied with you we would almost certainly romp MH reasonably quickly. While certainly tempting, after thinking about the aftermath you would be in a much stronger position (so would I) but I would never catch up in terms of capability. As well if it were to come down to u and me in some miracle, you would have the whole of the eastern side of the world.

After thinking about stickign it out with my closest ally the whole game I decided that if we survive this I will have come out ahead of MH and I should then be able to take him down.

I did consider staying completely out of it but it looked like you would be able to walk over MH without too much more difficulty and I would be even worse off then if I didn't join in.

There's not enough time for me to put all my reasons down so I'll offer this apology on a personal level for backstabbing you but I can certainly understand any illwill you now might hold my civ (and/or me) as I think I would be pretty livid. Best of luck to you in the coming battles and I look forward to competing with you.

Taylor

Now to see whether mh has taken the proffered Peace or not.

[Dreylin]

Ruff,

Just got a message from Athlete; he has finally got off the fence onto the other side. Now we have to wait to see whether mh still accepts the treaty, or whether I'm fighting for my life.

Don't forget to request PP from me, and I'll assess the Iron situation this turn.

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

I hope that he does accept the treaty. If not, do you have any idea how many units mh has? Have you don't the power maths and compared that to what you can see? It might be that his back yard is totally empty ... it was relatively empty last time I went through there (about10-15 turns ago). If it is empty, and you can punch through Vienna, the rest might be a romp.

Oh - you cannot build knights, can you. Hmm - maybe you don't have any strong 2-movers.

You didn't send me your iron on the expectation that mh would accept peace deal did you? If he didn't accept peace deal, I could always reject the iron trade.

Ruff

Ruff,

I know that mh has 4 more Muskets in-transit, but unable to reach Vienna this turn. I think that's pretty-much his Drafting capability exhausted, and he didn't get MilTrad until this turn, so can't have built any Currassiers ... he may have upgraded his remaining Knights though. If athlete attacked, it was only with Camel Archers, as he hasn't had time to build or upgrade to Curs. Zapotec will fall quickly, but it'll be touch and go whether I can make any progress forward in the face of both of them. The lack of Knights / 2-movers is a pain at the moment, but we can steal MilTrad to make up for it.

Actually now that I think about it, do you havea Spy in position to steal RP from sooooo? If you can, go straight on to Rifling while I get a couple of Spies ready to take RP from Athlete; I should be able to get it in time to trade Rifling from you.

I actually forgot to offer you the Iron last turn, so I will make certain to do so this turn if I can afford to.

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

A pleasant morning chat with Ruff:

Ruff.Hi: I have a spy in sooooo land and I think I am making another
going to put 5 or 6 in there so that I can cut important roads when the time comes too

me: What do you think of the idea of stealing RP?

Ruff.Hi: need banking for RPs (IIRC)
great idea

me: would even us out in the race for Rifling

Ruff.Hi: I've put my EP back onto sooooo
but will keep enough on mh and ath to see research
pretty much

me: I have time to get Feud & Guilds while you're grabbing Rifling

Ruff.Hi: except you need to catch up to take banking and the balance from me

me: Trade Banking from you
Steal RP from athlete

Ruff.Hi: right

me: What are your expenses right now at 100%?

Ruff.Hi: you should be able to jump knights and grab the tech that allows you to buile cruisers (or what ever they are called)
about 90

me: MilTrad

Ruff.Hi: and about 300 beakers (pre Oxford)
and pre-GA
and pre-PP

me: OK, right now I make 84gpt at 0%
>300beakers at 100%
So I will be abl to feed you gold once your reserves are out

Ruff.Hi: ok
I am putting away about 110g per turn at the moment
for some reason, it jumped about 20g end of last turn
haven't done a whip around to find out why - prob cottages maturing

me: or trade routes

Ruff.Hi: true
wish the game was going
woke up this morning expecting to have it

me: Yeah
I got athlete's note then looked at the tracker
& noticed he didn't seem to have uploaded
at least he managed to get it up there this morning

Ruff.Hi: oh - ok

me: Probably waiting for mh to get home from work

Ruff.Hi: so, with any luck, we should get it about 2pm today

me: I haven't heard back from him since I accepted his proposal

Ruff.Hi: if sooooo plays it quickly

me: so I expect to be at war with both of them

Ruff.Hi: what do you think athlete has done?
what about your NAP

me: With mh, or athlete?

Ruff.Hi: with athlete
you think he would break that

me: mh hadn't actually proposed in-game, so I have to rely on him accepting
Yes
He has implied that his deal with mh includes a mutual-defense clause

Ruff.Hi: ha

me: that he'd have to break a deal either way

Ruff.Hi: bet he is just inventing this stuff on the fly

me: If I hadn't spotted the possibility, he'd have razed Bursa by now
I'm 99% certain I stopped that possibility

Ruff.Hi: good

me: He can have hit my stack with 6CA
(plus a couple of obsoletes)

Ruff.Hi: that should be ok, as long as your UU defends
I hate it when cannons are your strongest unit

me: mh has a couple of muskets & a Knight left that could also attack
If they both attacked, the losses on both sides will be bad
(all three sides)

Ruff.Hi: then it comes down to a production race

me: (& whether athlete goes into Nationhood and Drafts)

Ruff.Hi: from my pbem experience, the attacker nearly always gets creamed
well - I think Drafting really hurt mh

me: Yes, but it kept his city

Ruff.Hi: so, after a couple of rounds, hopefully it will be hurting ath too
that is true

me: Athlete has bigger cities
with more food

Ruff.Hi: but knocked him out of the game

me: but there's some weird management going on
true
He also hasn't been producing many units

Ruff.Hi: yeah ... lowest power
and you have city visibilty

me: indeed
he is SPI though
so could have switched & drafted this turn

Ruff.Hi: so quick civic swaps
well - guess we will see later this afternoon

me: Yeah, just re-reading his message and we are definitely at War

Ruff.Hi: if that is the case, I hope you call him a huge string of names about breaking the NAP

me: Maybe later in public when I've seen what he's done
I just told him I wasn't very surprised

Ruff.Hi: oh that is totally wrong
should be making him feel as bad as possible

me: meh, I'm not a particularly blustery type

Ruff.Hi: if he had a defensive pact - should have told you that your NAP wasn't worth crap if you attach mh
yeah - I know

me: Ouch

Ruff.Hi: but put on your best acting face and have some fun

me: Well if I'm going to do that, I may as wll do it in public, right?

Ruff.Hi: like ... ask him what a Aggressive Pact would look like!
sure
but if you tell him privately that you expect it ... he will totally see the public stuff as just an act
but this does open him up to your spying activities

me: yep

Ruff.Hi: poison water!
anger

me: I'll settle for tech, thanks

Ruff.Hi: cut roads, resources (but they are just worker turns)
well - if he is drafting, I would poison water

me: mmmm, good thought

Ruff.Hi: or incite anger - that would hurt
IIRC, spy anger uses the whip / draft counter
so you could make it a very long anger period

[Dreylin]

t112 - Woohoo!

<Ahem> More solemnity needed for this dreadful situation. :dancing5:
:2dance:

So having had a chance to compose myself after a tip-off from Ruff, I know that mh has accepted Peace ... and that Athlete has made a fatal mistake.

Loading the turn, I'm greeted by a trade screen from mh offering me Iron, Wines, and trade of maps - per Peace Accords.

This is followed by a collection of screens from Ruff: requesting PP, my spare Sheep, and a map trade. I respond with an additional offer of Iron, now that I have a spare.

OK, first things first; what did athlete do:

Attacked 6x Camel Archers, losing 3 and killing two Cannon, a Jannissary and a poor unsuspecting Catapult. All at 50% or less, so it seems like he came off better out of the exchange. Wait, then he inexplicably threw 2HA and 2 Chariots to their deaths at <10% odds.

One CA is still sitting in Vienna, while the other two have run off back towards Damascus. The two Catapults are now back on the road network E of Medina, but look slightly lonely. It appears that he has adopted Nationhood, bt I can't see that he's actually drafted anything yet - which is a bit odd. Damascus and Medina have started Camel Archers and Zapotec & Kufah are on Muskets, however Mecca and Najran are still on buildings,and Baghdad has just finished a non-unit build. Doesn' seem like avery effective way to wage a war to me!

OK, before we go any further, I propose Open Borders to mh, and then end him a quick in-game note: "Fancy joining a short, sharp War against Athlete? Maybe we can pick you up some fertile land...." I'll send an e-mail later as well when I have time.

Right, let's have a look at Zapotec: hmmmm, 20% defense, 2 Longbows guarding, Musket in (Ooooo) 10t, and too small to Draft. :D Do we think that 2Cannon and 4Jannissaries will be enough ... I guess we'll see next turn, since they're now sitting outside the city. Also move 2Workers under the stack to road next turn. Plan is to raze Zapotec to free up tiles for Samsun and Diyarbakir, then fortify the chokepoint at the extreme South. Adding the Rice to Samsun's Pigs will make it a candidate for Globe Draft abuse.

OK, in the North I want to get some units onto the Hills North of Damascus ASAP to secure the approach to the city. Damascus is clearly a key target as it contains Athlete's Heroic Epic and is causing all sorts of cultural problems in the area. The Cannons in the stack are all qute badly injured, but there are two fresh in Bursa which can ge over the border. They will be joined by 4 Jannissaries - 2 uninjured and 2 lightly scratched.

The remaining forces - 6 injured Cannon, 3 Janns, HAs, etc. will remain still to heal. Well except the 6xp C1, Medic HA which joins with Hernan Cortes to create a super-medic (26xp also gets me Morale, for super-speed). Everything is now on a max-2t heal.

The Galley which had been preparing for the amphibious assault on Mainz turns back to Konya and drops off the Jann. At least I now have a way of getting a Settler over to that island (when I have an opportunity to build one!).

My Northern Spy starts towards Medina, while my Southern moves through Zapotec towards Kufah. Send a couple of Workers to Bursa to connect up the irrigation ... again!

New builds queued: Istanbul - Pike, Ankara - Barracks, Bursa - Cannon, Samsun - Theatre, Diyarbakir - Spy.

Draft: Sarmatian, Istanbul(2nd), Konya(2nd)

Research is set to Feudalism as discussed with Ruff. I'll run 1t of 0% Science to build up a cash reserve, and then go to break-even through Feud & Guilds until Ruff needs me to feed him gold.

[Dreylin]

Now that my e-mails are actually arriving, I can talk with mh:

Hi,
most important news for you I guess: Athlete declared on you and gave your stack a good whacking, but I nevertheless agreed to peace.

Now for more extensive discussion:
I was obviously torn whether to agree to our peace deal or shred it and take my chances with athlete, now that he attacked you.
I looked at the damage your stack took, and was rather impressed. I assume athlete got lucky a couple of times, but your stack was severely wounded all around.
Now considering that I had a handful of full health muskets and knight around plus more healthy muskets coming for a second wave next turn, I think you could have kissed most of your stack good bye.
Athlete also gifted me 2 catapults in Vienna, which I could have used straight away.

(I am not quite sure of the etiquette of PBEM, but I guess it is ok to test things out to some degree once I have the save. So I actually test-attacked you and it went rather well. One of my cats withdrew, I killed 4Jans, a HA and a cannon, leaving none of your units at full health and me with two full-health defenders (incl. the GG) and a lot of half-injured troops. More than enough to hold Vienna against your wounded troops and able to hit you again with fresh reinforcements the tun after.)

So I think athlete and me could have caused you a lot of grieve over the next turns, especially with Military Tradition available and Rifling on the horizon.
However, I decided to agree to our peace deal because of the following reasons:
- Despite his entry into the conflict on my side and him gifting me RP, I still have some suspicions about athlete and what motivated his actions or in-actions over the last couple of turns. I am probably too paranoid, but I would not be surprised to learn athlete was actually holding back to see how I do in the first rounds, before deciding he joins in on my side or stays out. And I am still waiting to see a sizeable stack.
- My contribution to the war would have been minimal. Certainly nothing capable of taking a city. So I guess the spoils of war would have gone to athlete anyway. I am actually not even sure we would have beaten you to an extent that we could extort anything out of you. Your civ is in fine shape, after all.
- And finally, I kind of offered you the deal before athlete's intervention, and shredding or re-negotiating the deal would have been rather shabby and opportunistic.

So to summarize, here is what we agree to:
1.) *I will not gift techs to athlete or sooooo*. Here, I want to attach a deadline or get-out clause. After all, there could be a situation in which the alliances are re-shuffled and starting tech trades with either athlete or soooo will become possible without antagonizing you. Also, should I not come to any tech agreements with you or Ruff, I will need to be able to tech trade with other eventually. So this can be negotiated of course, but I would attach a deadline of T140 to it. (The minimum time of the NAP without cooling off period).
2.) *I will stop supplying athlete with my spare wine immediately*.
3.) *I will supply you with wine and iron for the duration of 10 turns*. After that I can do with my resources what I like. Naturally, I would be interested in trading them in against other resources. The presence of three Dyes within yours and Ruff's borders is of course tempting.
4.) *NAP until at least T140*. Then it can be cancelled with a cool off period of 10 turns. No spy actions during the NAP and the cool off period. Goes for both sides of course.
4.a) No aiding of third parties either of us is at war with, including ROP of offensive units, gifting units.
5.) *World Map trade*.

I offered the two resources in game together with the world map.
I also gifted back the two unused catapults to athlete. Its the decent thing to do and does not violate 4.a) in my eyes.

I assume you are in close discussion with Ruff and he is made aware of the developments.
I would like to get open borders with you both eventually.

As for future cooperation:
I obviously would like to get my hands at techs that you and the other civs have, but realize that there is currently not much I could offer. Suggestions welcome.

So lets exchange any POWs still alive and call it a good fight.
I would like to hear your view of how it went. I'd like to think it was probably a bit harder than you expected?

Regards
mh

Hey,

Sorry for not responding yesterday; your e-mail got stuck in a holding-pattern somewhere between my mail forwarder and my inbox, and I didn't realise until much too late.

Anyway, you're right that the fight was a bit harder than I'd expected - I really should have built the 3-4 extra Cannons rather than the University of Sankore as Krill pointed out in my thread! I was a little surprised that you attacked with the Catapults when you did, but I knew that I had to spend a turn bombarding anyway and that gave me the turn to heal from the collateral. I'm not sure that keeping them longer would have helped, but it would have meant more units to kill in the city. Great use of the GG, it certainly made it impossible for me to consider further attacks on Vienna that turn.

Not sure what would have happened from here if it was just the two of us, taking Vienna was certainly going to cost me a chunk of units - especially once you got a few Currassiers out - though I think I would have been able to break through before you got Rifles.

I was most worried about athlete joining in a turn earlier than he did; he caused a bit of damage attacking last turn, but I think that if he'd hit my stack before your Knights did, it would have been quite a slaughter and I'd have been forced to withdraw.

Ruff sold me his second Great Spy and I bombed Athlete, so I can tell you that that was his stack ... no hidden force waiting to join in the fight. Even the turn he declared war his back-line cities were still on infrastructure, so I think it would just have devolved into a stalemate in the North.

He and I have been communicating pretty regularly even since the two alliances formed - I've been trying hard to get him to switch sides - and I think he got caught playing both sides a little bit too long; looks like it's going to bite him. Needless to say, I was very glad to discover that you had accepted the Peace deal despite his involvement.


OK, Brass Tacks time: I must confess that I was wondering whether the wording of clause1 was skillful, sloppy or translational. By saying "gift" rather than "trade" and specifying "to" athlete or sooooo rather than "with", there's a whole lot of leeway in that sentence! I suspected that the spirit in which it was written was what you just referred to, but didn't want to quibble with the wording too much in case it was a deal-breaker. Anyway, I know your tech ability is a little low right now, but I'm certain that we will be able to come to an arrangement.

Ruff was very-much behind my taking your Peace offer, and I suggested that he talk to you for us about techs. I guess the two ideas that I'd had were that you could trade gold to us to support our teching, or that maybe for now if you picked up smaller techs - like Compass and Optics - we could come to a Civ size-proportionate exchange rate? I would certainly like to get a couple of (cheap) Harbours, but have too many other things to back-fill at the moment!

You'll have seen that I proposed Open Borders last turn in-game (at least I intended to!), and I'm sure Ruff will be willing to do also - although you're in Merc, so no Trade Routes, right? Anyway, I need to be able to hit back at Athlete's units if he tries to hide them in your lands.

On that subject, I sent you a note in-game wondering if you thought you'd like / be able to join in an assault on athlete. Even if you can't field a large force, he doesn't have much in the way of defense and it may tip it over from a slog to a romp. We'd have to hammer some details out, but I'm sure that Medina at least would be an excellent fit with your empire.

Oh, going back to resources; the Iron is actually not for me but for Ruff - due to a quirk of the map, his is actually inaccessable - and I knew you had two available (if not connected). The Wines I'll be happy to hand back once my Draft anger starts wearing off, and I'm sure Ruff will happily trade (or gift) his Dyes to you. Which reminds me, I need to ask him to stop trading them to athlete! There's also a third Sugar in our territory, which would be up for grabs.

Right, better get on and read/reply to athlete....

Dreylin II.

[Dreylin]

E-mail to Ruff while I think about it:

Hey Ruff,

Finally got mh's message through my e-mail system and have replied. I guess I suggested to you yesterday that you discuss techs with him, though that was mostly because I hadn't heard from him. I sent the following ideas to him this morning:

Ruff was very-much behind my taking your Peace offer, and I suggested that he talk to you for us about techs. I guess the two ideas that I'd had were that you could trade gold to us to support our teching, or that maybe for now if you picked up smaller techs - like Compass and Optics - we could come to a Civ size-proportionate exchange rate? I would certainly like to get a couple of (cheap) Harbours, but have too many other things to back-fill at the moment!
Did you have any thoughts on the matter?

We also talked about resources and he noted that we have 3 Dyes between us. Then I realised that you are currently trading one to Athlete for his spare Rice. I'd be grateful if you'd cancel that deal, but I know that you're short on health yourself. I'll be liberating one of his Rice sources next turn and will offer it to you; if you need to keep the deal going with him this turn to stay healthy, then I have no problem with you waiting until you have my Rice to cancel.

I also had a look and it seems like you've got your Sugar hooked up now? Does that mean that I can recall my spare and potentially offer it to mh?

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

Council of War with Ruff:

Ruff.Hi: I'll look at my health situation and see how much it hurts cancelling ath's trade

me: As I said, I don't think that 1t will make a lot of difference

Ruff.Hi: how quickly are we looking at folding mh into the Good Guys camp?
have we pushed him out of TOG into limbo ... or into our Camp?

me: Not sure yet

Ruff.Hi: my thinking is we just take it slowly, not pressure him too much

me: I've asked if he's willing to send some troops against Athlete

Ruff.Hi: slowing show him the error of his ways

me: (offering Medina)

Ruff.Hi: I don't think that he will want to do that
but doesn't hurt asking

me: would make a big difference to the speed of conquest
but I know what you mean

Ruff.Hi: maybe taking some cities and asking him to get ready to defend them against
athlete
but what is to stop him from just giving them back to athlete?

me: Well I also told him that I'd been talking to athlete for a long time about switching sides

Ruff.Hi: guess we start talking to him about trust and showing him that we trust him
sounds like that is what he was missing in his dealings with athlete

me: so he may be less inclined towards him at the moment
Agreed
I think if he goes for Compass & Optics it would be useful
We could even remove trade restrictions if we wanted, as they are not expensive nor vital techs
(& Sooooo is researching Compass anyway)

Ruff.Hi: he is
yes - sounds good
any word from double dealing man?
athlete?

me: Yep

Ruff.Hi: oh

me: He offered me Zapotec, Feud & Guilds for Peace
and "Along with this we can immediately begin tech trading for reasonably fair market value"

Ruff.Hi: he has no idea

me: He couldn't have stopped me taking Zapotec this turn anyway

Ruff.Hi: which city is Zap?
that little barb city

me: SW
yep
indefensable on my borders

Ruff.Hi: right - completely cut off from his civ

me: 2L-Bow
vs 2Cann & 4Janns
Not even on a hill

Ruff.Hi: so - what are your thoughts?

me: Well, I'm not taking the deal
because I want to raze Zapotec

Ruff.Hi: wooo - angry Dreylin!

me: then I'm going to ask him for Damascus, Kufah, and RP (for both of us)

Ruff.Hi: ok - push his future back into his hands

me: Zapotec cramps the potential of my other two cities
yeah
make him an outrageous offer
and force him to either negotiate or take the consequences

Ruff.Hi: do you have the forces to back it up?

me: Well I know that he doesn't!

Ruff.Hi: well - let me know how I can help

me: Research like crazy!

Ruff.Hi: these guys (Western TOG) are falling like nine pins
but he is playing for time and rifling

me: yeah
Ah, but that's a problem for him
in order to survive to get to Rifling
he has to draft...

[Dreylin]

Finally been able to get to Athlete's letter and respond:

Hey Andy,

Not wanting to hold the turn up I went ahead and played but I'm hoping we can work out a peace deal if your willing to before you play? And just so you know it was a much harder decision then you might think. I was quite tempted to switch sides.

Anyways, I've evacuated Zapotec and offered Zapotec and Feudalism for a peace treaty. Zapotec comes complete with a Granary, Lighthouse and Madrassa along with an improved irrigated rice, grasshill mine and a freshly built cottage. I'll also include Guilds in this (wouldn't allow me to offer it as you don't have Feudalism yet) so if you accept request guilds and I will accept next turn. Along with this we can immediately begin tech trading for reasonably fair market value.

With your all empowering clairvoyance into my civ you can see I'm in no position to defend against a mass attack, though I could draft/slave my civ into ruin to make it a painful conquering if need be. I broke our NAP with the understanding I was coming to the defence of a longtime ally. With you and MH at peace I see no reason to continue to war. I make this offer not only out of a gesture of appeasement? for my breaking of the NAP we once shared, but out of a recognition of the power of your glorious civ. I will offer that I'm not the only one of us who's broken an NAP between us though ;-).

On final note, this is not a 1 time offer if you don't like it. I'm willing to negotiate as you see fit.

Taylor

Hey Taylor,

Well I'm still not sure that I agree with you that I actually broke our NAP agreement in the past; firstly, we never actually spelled out Spy activities as part of our original agreement - although I conceed that that's a grey area. However, the effect of Bombing can be replicated merely by concentrating my EPs, and I don't think that would be considered Aggressive enough to break a NAP ... after all, you were doing that against me! Secondly the tech steal; again I do not see this as an aggressive act since it was not a tech that you could have gained any additional value from. If you had researched it yourself then you can argue that you lost value, but not in this case.

Anyway, I don't think that a few Spy actions comes to the same level of dastardliness as actually attacking someone with whom you have an active NAP, so I'm going to consider myself on the high-ground here. 9-)


Now on to your offer: I'm going to have to refuse. I'll let you know why, and then make you a counter-offer to consider.

Zapotec - I just don't want this city, and never have. It's completely indefensible (the only flatland tile for miles) and it's tiles would better serve the neighbouring cities. I had planned to raze it before you asked for it (and in hindsight maybe should have anyway), and intend to raze it now. Besides, it's not like there was anything you could have done to stop me taking it this turn!

Your tech offer - Feud & Guilds are probably worth 3t of research to me at the moment, so you'll forgive me if I'm a little underwhelmed. Now that you have voided our NAP, I am also free to steal them from you as/when I like.

Military - simply put, you have none worth speaking of; while I am fully geared-up for War with my forces already rolling in your direction. Yes, you have access to Currassiers now that your Iron is connected, but my forces will be advancing through defensive terrain to reach your cities, giving me back the advantage. You are ahead in the quest for Rifles & Cavalry, but in order to survive to research them you will (as you say) need to whip and Draft to stay alive. That will errode both your tech rate and your cities, prolonging the research time and leaving less production/pop available once it is complete.


So here's my offer: you gift me both Damascus and Kufah, and then trade Replacable Parts to both Ruff and I when we have the pre-reqs sorted. The land to the West of those cities is yours; we normalise trade relations, but you cease all dealings with sooooo.

Now that may seem like a lot at first glance, but by accepting you will retain the majority of your build and tech capacity, and will continue to be a part of the game for the foreseeable future. Think about it and let me know; as you said this is up for negotiation.


On a final note, I think you stayed on the fence for just a bit too long. If you'd attacked a turn earlier, the tattered remnants of my stack would now be running for the hills as you and mh chased it to the walls of Bursa - you'd have still lost Zapotec, but you were never going to be able to defend it. Once I spotted your potential 2-move assault on Bursa and ensured that it would not succeed, maybe that was the point to have switched horses. However in the framework of this game I really think it was a mistake to have even considered changing allegiances, and getting stuck in a position of having to break one deal or another was very careless. 9-)

Andy