[Spoiler] RB Pitboss #2 - Shaka of Rome

[MWIN]

Why not ask for Seoul instead of wonsan? You would have to walk in and take empty capitol...

Seoul would have been a gem (Nal Hutta, to be exact), but I can live without it, for now. Would have been a GP farm, or something.

[Whosit]

@McClure: Yeah, those are some of the reasons this would be a good idea. I can start working on my backwards economy immediately. Now, I could take both cities, but it would probably be more trouble than it's worth, now that I see what I'm up against.

Getting the Horses might be harder than you think, since the tile will still have the culture from Wonsan while it was in Korea's control. I'll probably win it eventually, especially if I get a monument and Library built fairly quickly.

@MWIN: I really doubt that they would hand over Seoul. Honestly, asking for it would probably cause them to break off negotiations. At least, that's what I would do in their position.

Going to put together my list of demands now.

[Whosit]

The terms:

Dear plako and Broker33,

Never let it be said that the Galactic Empire is an ungracious winner. Your terms are a very good starting point, although we would like to add a few small additions:

*Control of Wonsan is turned over the Empire.*
-The Empire is granted settling rights to the area North of Wonsan and East of Nar Shaddaa.
-The Empire is granted settling rights to the strip of land directly North of Nar Shaddaa.
-The Empire will not settle west of Nar Shaddaa.
-Korea will not direct additional Espionage Points towards the Empire for the duration of the Non-Aggression Pact.
-Korea will gift a Worker to the Empire.

Regarding the NAP itself, is a 50 turn agreement that lasts until Turn 135 acceptable? We are willing to discuss the exact length. We do hope that these terms are agreeable to you. No more blood need be shed.

Sincerely,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

As much as I would like to make a "I am altering the deal" joke at some point, I don't think that it would be appropriate.

[Maniac Marshall]

Why not ask for Seoul instead of wonsan? You would have to walk in and take empty capitol...

I disagree. I can't see them giving up Seoul under any circumstances. I think that sort of request would just make them really angry, tbh. If I was in their situation and he demanded Seoul off me, I'd fight to the death rather than cave to that demand.

I think the only real choices are take Wonsan with an immediate gifting of the horses and maybe a few other minor concessions, or just keep on fighting for now.

I'd say which is the better decision comes down to which is a higher priority: Eliminating/crippling Korea further, or being able to go after India as hard and fast as possible. It's not an easy decision, but I think whichever you think is more important is what you should base your decision on.

[m4gill4]

as part of the peace deal, have you considered demanding gifts of military units that you could then turn around and use for your CoW commitments?

As much as I would like to make a "I am altering the deal" joke at some point, I don't think that it would be appropriate.

There really is an Imperial one-liner for every occasion, isn't there!

[Whosit]

Heh heh, clearly, starting a war is the way to get lurker's commenting.

Yeah, I agree with Maniac Marshall. No asking for Seoul. I didn't demand the Horses, though. I'm very hesitant to make too many demands. Yes, I'm in a strong position, but I think that's partly because I took P'yongyang with such overwhelming force. Ask too much, and they'd probably decide to fight it out. I'm not awfully worried about letting them keep their Horses, either. With P'yo--I mean, Nar Shaddaa in my control, they have no Iron. There is a source of Iron to the west visible, but I plan to ask Nakor to settle there . . . .

No Iron means no Knights, no Pikemen (to counter my own Mounted units) and no Crossbowmen. I also don't want to humiliate them, either, or strip them of all their defenses. Not that I think we're going to be buddies from now on, but no reason to needlessly antagonize them. I don't need a nation of "Destroy Whosit!"

So, no, Korea won't be totally knocked out of the picture, but I'm going to have an immediate 6-2 city advantage over them, which will probably grow. If I can convince Nakor to settle heavily to his east, that'll lock down Korea further. Meanwhile, I settle to my east, hopefully secure the areas I want, and settle some of the Islands. Long-term stuff, but hey, it could work.

There really is an Imperial one-liner for every occasion, isn't there!

Villains always get the best lines.

[McClure]

@McClure: Yeah, those are some of the reasons this would be a good idea. I can start working on my backwards economy immediately. Now, I could take both cities, but it would probably be more trouble than it's worth, now that I see what I'm up against.

Getting the Horses might be harder than you think, since the tile will still have the culture from Wonsan while it was in Korea's control. I'll probably win it eventually, especially if I get a monument and Library built fairly quickly.

It may not take as long as you think. If Wonsan has expanded borders, there have to be cultural buildings inside. When the city is gifted to you, the buildings stay and begin to produce culture for you, so you should be producing Roman culture from turn 1.

Now for the part I'm not sure of: The city should retain its cultural defenses/level, so you could be getting actual culture + 20 each turn on the Horse tile (which will be significantly greater than culture on that tile from Seoul). I think the current city center culture is converted completely (alliteration!) to Roman culture (to prevent flipping). What is unlikely to be coded is any way to retroactively assign the Wonsan culture on the Horse tile to Roman culture.

But if I have the mechanics correct you should be able to claim Horses ... Seoul should have been touching that tile for ~35 turns with just Palace culture (~70 points) (maybe a Library/Monument as well, but not material for the calculation since I'm just ballparking) + ... looking at your pictures Wonsan has had expanded borders since at least turn 76
...


... at least 200 culture from Wonsan.

So guessing 400 Korean culture total, and assuming 2-5 cpt from Seoul, you would have control of the Horses in about 25-35 turns. To keep the Horses just make sure you hit 100 culture in Wonsan before Seoul reaches 500 culture.

Apologies for the analytical intrusion, I just like doing math. :

[Whosit]

No apologies necessary, McClure (or should I say, "apology accepted, Captain [McClure]?"). I'll never turn away help with the game math. I don't have much experience with gifted cities, so I didn't know that even cultural buildings would remain. If that's the case, a Library is almost certainly the first thing that I'll put in.

Last I checked, Seoul does not have either a Monument or Library, but I might have to double-check on the Library. I'm not sure that anyone would put a Monument in their capital unless it was a UU or if they are Charismatic. Or if they're really, really losing a culture war.

[Whosit]

Just got this. It made me chuckle a bit:

Dear Whosit,

This is very good news! Congratulations on waging such a successful
war. I think our alliance has a very bright future, with all members
getting well positioned.

We really appreciate for keeping us in the loop. Things have been
quite busy for us, and I realized we forgot to mention to you that the
Koreans asked us for help. They also asked to ask the Incas (whom they
have not met) for help as hell. We politely refused.

Best,
Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

I know that the Koreans asked Nakor for help as well. I'm guessing that they've asked everyone for help. I'm guessing part of the reason they want to discuss terms is because they failed to find allies . . . .

[Jabah]

Wonsan could be a very nice cottage river site, even with Seoul culture taking away most of its west.

I think the deal is very fair from them considering our position (of course, you will gain time to improve your economy, so it is also good for you).
So while they might not be too happy about the ar, they might see reason and keep 'cautious' relations with you instead of 'hate' so possible future trade/relation are not completely out of question

PS - I would also ask gently that they refrain from pillaging any tiles that will be at some time in any of your cities BFC