RP Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Darius I of the Holy Roman Empire

[Nakor]

Started on our turn and tried to get re-aquanted with the game.

Dantski RAZED Shilol and captured/deleted a worker.
Good work for the CoW!

Next turn we'll be able to find Stardock and the next few turns will see a lot of buildings finisged.

Workers are working on 2 cottages, the road to Stardock and the camp near the deer.

We need 1 more turn of 0% research before we can go to 100% and get Monarchy in 5 turns (turn 109/110). Do we revolt right away?
What shall we do with our first Great Scientist? Academy in Rolan or in Sethanon?

[Nakor]

Had a chat with Plako in-game.

He has a NAP with Whosit untill t150 but want revenge.
He's beelining Contruction and wants to trade Huecha's for Longbows around t150.
I think that's a possibility.
Longbows are a good idea for us as well. We could tech:

Monarchy - Math - Archery - Feudalism

[DMOC]

The game's back?

Good, I was getting a little bored.

-I'd put academy in capital, and yes HR immediately unless we have a settler and/or worker 1 turn from completion.

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]Turn 104:[/SIZE]

Stardock founded, working on a work boat.
One more turn of gold before we can get to Monarchy in 4-5 turns.

We can join the fight in 2 turns and it's needed. Horses are disconnected and Dantski is en-route to disconnect the copper. The war should fo easier after that. Jowy is teching towards construction.

I think we need to get into military build mode a.s.a.p. but we need to finish infra now as well, so our second stack will have to wait a bit, don't you agree?

I do think that maybe going for Feudalism before Maths might be a good plan. With a few longbows in all cities, we should be safe for a long time...

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]MESSAGE FROM INDIA:[/SIZE]

Dear Nakor and DMOC of Holy Rome,

You asked in the PM that you sent about the RBPB3 game if we were "still mad" over this game. Well, let's be clear here. Your team told us that you were going to cancel your non-aggression pact with Dantski and then declare war on him, coming to our aid in war. You told us that Dantski couldn't offer a better deal than we could. We asked if you would keep our strategic plans in confidence, and you said yes, only to turn around and betray them to teams that were attacking us. For all we know, your exploring units in our territory were relating info on the defenders to the other teams, who seemed to know where they should choose to invade, which very well may have cost us the city of Shiloh.

So, how would you feel about all that? Probably not too good, I'll wager.

However, the long break while searching for a replacement player has done a good job of calming things down. We're still pretty bummed over here, but perhaps you had your reasons. Maybe you assumed that with Jowy, athlete, kalin, and Dantski all invading you had no choice but to join on the winning side, or you would have no chance to survive in the postwar environment. Maybe you thought that Speaker and I would just get steamrolled, and you had to get in on the spoils. You did say it was a difficult choice, after all.

But if that was the case, those assumptions were wrong! We did not fold like a deck of cards, and this war is by no means decided yet. I don't know if your "allies" have told you this yet, but the Jowy and Kathlete main stack was eliminated this turn, with extremely light casualties on our side, 4:1 in our favor. Maybe they'll be back later with more units, but they are effectively out of the war now. Dantski is running around with a bunch of axes deep in our territory, but they have zero chance to capture any of our core cities. Once our units finish healing, that stack is dead meat as well.

Since you have not actually entered the war yet, here's your chance to redeem your team in our eyes! After all, no shots have been fired yet in anger. While Dantski's stack is off dying horribly in our lands, you have - once again - a golden opportunity to make gains at his expense. I'm not sure what your small stack of 6 units is supposed to achieve against us anyway; even if you did take a city, you could never defend it, and it would have crippling maintenance costs. What exactly are you gaining from this war again, aside from strengthening Jowy and Dantski???

Just like in the CivFanatics Demogame (and here I'm referring to DMOC's experience) you have the opportunity to be a weak member of a 4 vs. 1 alliance, or a strong partner in a 2 vs. 3 alliance. In that game Saturn thought it would do better to form the latter agreement, and I think the events of that game showed it was the right decision. The same deal that we proposed (and you accepted!) earlier is still on the table with regards to Dantski. I daresay we would be much better allies than a team that never updates their spoiler thread and rarely responds to email. Do you want to rely on Dantski? Do you really trust Dantski???

Remember that this is RBPB2, not RBPB3. DMOC is under no compulsion to help out Jowy and Kathlete just because you guys are buds in the other game. If they can truly offer you something from this war, cool. But can they really make you a better deal than we can?

Sullla
The Killer Angels

[SIZE="5"]UPDATES ON THE WAR:[/SIZE]

Hi CoW

A quock update, the game was unpaused and I have razed an undefended Shiloh. They also left a worker within reach of a chariot and it was deleted. The chariot is killable but I believe I may be able to kill any attacker on my turn.

My stack is heading towards the horses at present while my mini-stack goes towards the copper.

Currently their capital hold 4-ish archers and a couple of axes, Antietam has 1 HA, a spear and a warrior.

-Dantski

Hi Dantski and the other CoW Members,

Thanks for the update and congrats for the first successful action
against a city!

I haven't looked at the game in a while, but from memory the plan for
the Greek/Ottoman stack was:

* pillage horses with 1 chariot

* pillage road 1SE of Chance with 1 chariot

* try to kill HA next to our stack by sacrificing 1 chariot if
necessary (the Ottomans will volunteer here) then kill with a second
chariot

* the bulk of the stack moves on the hill 2S of Chance, and heals for
a bit; whatever units can promote should do so (C1 promos) to avoid
being attacked; India unfortunately has a few units that can kill ours
on flat ground (axe GG, 2 promos HAs)

Greece mentioned a ministack already forming which is great news. It
may be wise to try and take Hampton Roads while waiting for
construction. We'll send some reinforcements soonish and will let you
know the details, still planning in this respect.

The HRE troops should probably go to Anti towards the copper, while
pillaging whatever they can.

I think that with pillaging the horses, and the pressure we put on
Chance, Getty, and Anti, we set the ground very well for the Imperial
Praetorians' landing next to Fred!

To victory!

Kalin

[COLOR="Orange"]Hi everyone,

Good to see the game moving forward again!
Congratz on the raze Dantski.
I think we do have a chance to do some real damage after all, although we need the Preats.

Just before the pause, Sullla caught my bluf, so he knows we'll join in the attack once our NAP ends.
He isn't that pleased...

To victory!
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Greetings Friends and Allies,

At last, we can move forward! Good to hear that we are having success in the field. Unfortunately, the razing of Shiloh is probably nothing more than a symbolic victory, but I suppose we must take what we can get. The plan sounds good, though I think that it will still take 7 turns for my boats to reach Fredericksburg. I will double check that tomorrow. Hopefully the city will be under defended while Sullla and Speaker try to protect the other cities under siege. I sincerely hope that the Coalition can avoid serious losses in the field. If the Killer Angels can rally an effective counter-attack, things could go south.

Regarding the Strategic Resources, my understanding is this: Horses have been disconnected. Copper is still connected. Is everything going well on that front? Once both are disconnected, that ought to signal a turning point in the fighting.

Hi CoW, thought you may be interested in this message India just sent me


Dantski,
We find ourselves in interesting times, don't we? I'm sure you've heard by now that Jowy and athlete/kalin have suffered a crushing defeat, as Speaker wiped out 90% of their attacking stack in one major battle. We've concentrated our attacks against their units thus far, but now that they're gone, your stack will come under fire next.
If you want to walk around pillaging individual tiles, that's your decision. Supporting a dozen units in our territory is hurting your economy pretty badly though. As you saw at Gettysburg, our core cities are well defended and will not be falling without a herculean slaughter on your side.
So... why bother to continue fighting anyway? This is actually a perfect time for you to cash out with your winnings, like a blackjack player after a hot run at the tables. Your allies have done all the fighting and dying, and you've been able to score some minor gains untouched. If you continue, you're going to be in for extremely bloody, grinding battles that do nothing to increase your chances of winning the game. And even assuming that you would be able to take us down (which is looking dubious at the moment), what then? Jowy, athlete, kalin, and Nakor are all playing on the same team in RBPB3. It's blantantly obvious that you are the odd man out in that alliance. If we are gone, you will be the next target invaded from both sides at once. Furthermore, Nakor spent weeks telling us that he was going to attack you, then cravenly sold us out at the last minute. He has been lying constantly in his emails. Do you really want "allies" like those guys?!?!?
Instead, you could sign peace with us and use your army of axes to tear through Nakor!!! His army is beyond pathetic, and half of it is ridiculously out of position up in our territory. Remember that we never made any kind of aggressive move against you earlier. Nakor stuck that silly city of Crydee right next Gao and has been trying to win the culture war there. Again, why not hit his pathetic military and double the size of your empire that way? We'd happily work together with you as your ally in that endeavor.
The choice is up to you. I think you'd have a lot more success against Nakor than against us though!
Sullla
The Killer Angels

First off I want to assure HRE that I have no plans to attack them. India NEEDS to be dealt with and I will not be turning on anyone here.

My main thought is that their email reminded me of the Apolyton writeup where Sullla said they were spinning for all their worth in emails to their neighbours. I just wanted to reaffrim my commitment to CoW.

-Dantski

[COLOR="orange"]Dear Friends and Allies,

We got almost the same message from India that Dantski did.
So they are playing a nice game there.
Rest assured that we WILL honor the deal we made with CoW and wont change sides.
We kept you updated on our dealings with India all the time.
Dantski, we are willing to extend our NAP beyond t125 when the current one ends, if that suits you.

What does worry me is the "crushing defeat" mentioned.
How true is this rumour?

Hope to hear from you soon!
Nakor of HRE[/COLOR]

Dear Friends and Allies,

This is unfortunate news. I'd like to hear from Jowy and Athlete and Kalin regarding the status of their forces, and how many losses they were able to inflict on Speaker and Sullla. If this information is correct, I believe that it will be necessary to rethink our approach to the fight. My force of Praetorians is powerful, yes, but I am not particularly eager to send them on a suicide mission. I do not think that my attack will be successful without support. Like Dantski, I support the Coaltion and believe that the Killer Angels must be stopped, so I want to make sure that my contribution is as effective as possible.

As for the spin, it's possible, though as I'd mentioned, I'd like to hear a combat report from Greece and the Rebel Ottoman Alliance before making any decisions. If the battle was one sided, that would mean that we lost a large number of troops while promoting their soldiers. However, if there were roughly equal losses, it's not quite as bad, but still pretty bad. And they have the advantage of being able to quickly reinforce their own territory. Let's put our heads together, figure out how to best manage our remaining resources, and figure out the best way to deal a significant blow to these guys.


To victory,

Whosit, Galactic Emperor

also to Greece/Ottomans

Where would you like me to move my stack this turn? I realize you may want me to cover your units.

Also would need a reply in next couple of hours since I need ot move before I go to sleep.

-Dantski

Greetings CoW,

Everything is still going according to the plan When the game was unpaused we suffered an attack by India's main stack (their only stack). I haven't talked to Ottomans yet, but personally I won 3 battles (3 HA's) and lost 8 (mostly Phalanx). Earlier I lost 4 more units (phalanx) and beat 3 (2 ha's, 1 axe). So for me it's 6 units killed, 12 lost, though their HA's were of course more expensive than my units. For Ottomans it's probably around 50:50. We've still got some troops around, we should join them up with Dantski's. We've accomplished our goal of disconnecting their horses, pillaging all tiles on our way and even destroying their troops at a good rate.

I'm already building another stack, got around 8 units ready so far, while at the same time I'm teching towards construction. I'd like to hear word on your second stacks too, I'd assume atleast HRE's and Ottoman's are in production since they had to hurry for the T100 attack and didn't have time to bring more units at the beginning. Once we have catapults, we can deal the finishing blow on them.

So far we've accomplished our goals, atleast in my opinion. We've already put ourselves in a better position to win this game: India has suffered. Their cities are heavily whipped and will be suffering for many turns to come. Their cottages have been pillaged and their resources disconnected. A city was razed, and with Rome's landing another one. They've been forced to defensive mode, fighting for their life, no longer just expotentially running away with the game and getting closer and closer to inevitable victory. They are strong, I give it to them. But I think their approach in convincing Dantski (and probably others too) hasn't really been good.. Is it really a good reason to stop fighting them because they're doing so well against many of us (which I think we all predicted and that is why we are doing this!)? Stopping now is same as giving up this game and letting them win.
Don't let our losses near Chancelorsville let you down. They have pretty much all their troops focused over there, only alot of whipped archers in Gettysburg and random units in other cities. I'm rejoining the battle with a second stack, hopefully one reinforced by Ottomans again. Rome will land with his 8 (or was 12 the final number?) praets, Dantski's and HRE's stacks are still 100%... We're not in trouble. India is definately trying to shake up our ranks because they know they're doomed if we continue like this. India's messages can be very convincing, they're definately more outspoken than I am, but I'm actually honest and sincere with each one of you. I doubt India are, unless they actually tell you that they're just using you to get out of this corner and then destroy you for putting them into that corner.

To victory, friends!
~ Jowy

Greetings CoW,

Jowy's words do the CoW a great service. We did suffer a defeat yet it
was to be expected. We have disconnected their horse and with Mali's
help soon have the copper disconnected. From that point on we should
be able to easily out produce them.

It is important for our remaning units to cooridinate with Mali. Your
main stack should move E of it's current position onto the grass/hill.
Greece's chariot and phalanx should join your lone chariot and our
chariot on the tile 1N of that grass/hill (1S of where Greece is
currently). However you could also move your stack entirely to join up
with our remaining units but I think it best to deny them that grass
hill. They do not have enough healthy units (2-movers) in range to be
able to attack either stacks I think.

Mali your mini stack should move NW to cover our warrior and we'll be
able to pillage that hill next turn.

Any other thoughts on co-ordination?

As for our 2nd wave we are currently working on sending 4 units via
galley and we shall need to send more HA's either via land or galley.
Those units are a solid 15-20 turns away most likely though so we must
communicate closely.

Athlete for A/K
Ottomans

Dear Friends,

I need to take a bit of a break from the game. I am a bit burned out
and also having some real life issues that would leave me with a lot
less time for the game. I expect this to be a temporary thing, and
would still be around but Athlete will be the main person running the
Ottoman Empire during this time.

I wanted to apologize to you all for the previous turn. I share part
of the blame with Athlete and Jowy. I should have spelled out the plan
a lot more clearly, Athlete should have consulted before playing, and
Jowy could have been more available For the record, I don't blame
anybody here, I just wanted to explain what I felt. However we learn
from mistakes and move on. I think that despite the setback we are
still in a very good position.

I would like to suggest that we keep the pressure on India, and go for
elimination. Co far they have shown clearly that they will be a
constant and huge threat. We are now at parity, imagine what will
happen when they get a tech advantage. I think that for the more
distant CoW members (HRE, Rome, Ottomans), the cost is not huge, as we
could dedicate a city or two to military and send a ministack or two
when/if needed. The direct neighbors of India have no choice but to
continue. Staying together will be the key here, and I was heartened
to see that all members are very dedicated to the cause. I truly
believe that we will all benefit from not having India around.
Also, being together in the CoW should build trust between each other,
so nobody would need to worry about being attacked by another member.
We should all consider strengthening the alliance while India is still
around.

All this being said, I wish you all good luck and I'll see you around
every now and then.

To Victory!
Kalin

Dear Friends and Allies,

I'd like to start by wishing Kalin well, and hoping the best for Athlete as he manages things on his own. I'm also glad to see that everyone is able to weather the storm of set-back, Sullla's propaganda, and see that we've only begun.

At Kalin's suggestion, I would like to try and take a more active part in tactics. To that end, would everyone be willing to write an e-mail with the composition, status, and location of their stacks each turn? We will need superior coordination if we want to see continued success. I'm a bit limited since I do not have a good view of the battlefield, but I can try to make suggestions if I have enough information.

As for my part, I have eight (8) Praetorians about 6 turns from Fred-burg. They will have to land before attack, which will leave them a bit vulnerable, though I don't know if there will be risk of a counter-attack. I see that the city has walls, and it surely has level 2 borders, so that would be a defense of 50%, correct? If anyone can update me on the last known units in the city, that would be helpful. Hopefully I can take it with minimal casualties. It will probably not be feasible for me to bring in reinforcements in any kind of useful time-frame, so I'm hoping to make my troops last. However, so long as the Killer Angels' attention is elsewhere, I should be able to take the city.

Also, if anyone has been keeping track, what improvements have been pillaged so far? I'd like to get an idea about the kind of damage that has been dealt on that front. I heard it mentioned that some cottages have been destroyed, which would be good. Reducing their income while forcing them to build more soldiers should surely hurt their tech rate.

Guys,

Just a quick note. If any e-mails go back and forth today I'll have to
get caught up tomorrow. My daughter's 3rd birthday today. I should
have time tomorrow to put a fair amount of focus into the game
tomorrow hence why I'll probably run the timer down if there's no
reload or anything.

Athlete

Greetings again CoW,

Here are some fresh intel from my part. India are 4 turns away from construction (They turned on research a turn or two ago, not sure with all the breaks going on). They might not have enough gold to keep that tech rate up though. They'll probably whip cats to try to get rid of our stacks, but imo it's better that they'll be whipping cats instead of longbows. I'm 12 turns from construction myself, that's without wasting my treasury. I could get it in about 8 turns at fastest. I'm thinking that 4 turns probably isn't worth it since it'll take a while to actually build/whip those cats anyway. Let me know if you know better

Whosit asked for pillaging information, I believe we've pillaged 4-5 cottages and the horses (and all roads on those tiles of course). Dunno about Dantski and HRE, they had some chariots though so they most likely did some pillaging on their side. I have no intel on Fredericksburg, sorry.

We should keep the pressure on by more reinforcements. Have them join in as soon as possible, even if it takes a while. Any troops will surely help our cause. Once Fredericksburg falls, they'll be down to 4 cities and one of them is very small and useless (I might get to raze that with my second stack soon). They'll have less resources to use against us: Simply less cities to whip and build with, worse financial status, all cities suffering for long for whip unhappiness etc. The fight will just get easier for us once we keep fighting after the initial strike.

~ Jowy

On my side I've pillaged 2 mines and 3 cottages (one not down completely). Currently my smaller stack is heading to their copper (pillaged in 2 turns if they don't bring their stack there).

Antietam has 1 axe, 1 spear and a warrior (possibly an archer instead) at present, (I'm 2 tiles away from it)
Gettys has 2 axes, 1 spear and around 5 archers.

No intel on gettys, would like to know from Greece/Otto where the Indian stack is.

-Dantski

[Nakor]

[SIZE="5"]Turn 105:[/SIZE]

Granary finished in Sethanon, axe ordered. We need more military!
Monarchy in 4 turns, that's great! I really think we need Feudalism afterwards.
That secures our land for a long time. Math can wait a bit, I think.

Our war stack is one turn behind the Romalinese attack force, we'll declare next turn and join them.

I had a good chat with Whosit. There's SILVER on Centralia.
I suggest we sail there with an axe/settler and claim it a.s.a.p.

Whosit wants the southeast of Centralia, I suggested we take southwest. He was ok with that.

Then we discussed a possible trade of a Great Prophet. He might get one in a dozen turns. We get our Great Scientist then. But I think we need to keep that one, what do you think?

here's his suggestion:
[COLOR="Magenta"] I give you the Prophet (assuming for the Confucian Shrine) in an exchange for a Scientist (sooner the better, but we can work that out). Plus . . .
Once one of us researches Currency, you will give me 1 gpt for each of my own cities that has Confucianism. Hold on, it's not as bad as it sounds!
1) I will do my best to spread the religion beyond my borders.
2) As you build Market, Grocer, and Bank, you will end up making a profit off of my income
Does this sound reasonable?[/COLOR]

[DMOC]

Sorry about being inactive for a while. Read through and caught up on messages. How many units do we have attacking exactly?

What will the benefits be for Feudalism? Defense? Are we under aggression? (Will have to read through the last few pages of text to find out). I would think that a better defense would be cheaper axes/swords/chariots that we can use. I still kind of support mathematics.

I agree with Centralia, we really need settlers there ASAP.

I would personally decline the deal, it really helps out Whosit more.



---

If I were playing solo, this is probably the time where I'd join India's side. However, this is a team game so I'd rather stick with CoW, even though we kind of told India we weren't planning on attacking them.

[Nakor]

Math it is then first.
I think we could use longbows, but they can wait a bit.

I'll talk to Whosit. I agree that we need to keep our first GS ourselves, but maybe we can make a deal about a second one?

Maybe in single player I would have joined India as well, but we don't want 4 angry teams around us, so we have to deal with the card we're given. So stick to the plan it is.

[SIZE="5"]Turn 106:[/SIZE]

War declared! We moved our stack into Indian territory. Killed a wandering warrior.

Rathaus finished in Krondor (saves us 6 gc!), ordered an axe before a worker/library.

Monarchy in 3t.

[DMOC]

Also Nakor, Feudalism will take waay too long for us to research right now. Math opens up lots of crucial future techs.

Okay, try to get a deal for the second GS. Using the first GS for an academy is best choice here, the earlier we get the academy, the more beakers we'll get.

Try to have research on 0% up to the point where we get the academy - after academy, raise research to 100% because we have an extra modifier in our favor.

Monarchy 3t, then Hereditary Rule right away UNLESS we have a worker and/or settler done the next turn (it's best to finish up workers/settlers BEFORE changing civics when not spiritual.

[Nakor]

GS in 9 turns, so after Monarchy (2t) we can do 7/8 turns money untill the Academy arrives, but we could also get Math in that time...

Pillaged a cottage (14gp) and a road near Antietam.

La Mut will grow next turn and finish an axe, another axe afterwards and then a settler for Yabon.

Send a settler to start connecting the wines.