[PB73 SPOILERS] scooter's Oracle

[yuris125]

Btw, regarding resettling Constantinople, I also thought the grassland hill was the play. For the first city I had to move to the plains hill, especially with an Exp leader, I couldn't find any opening which could beat getting the first worker 4 turns sooner. But as soon as I entered whipping phase, it became painfully clear how much orphaning the fish was hurting

[scooter]

I probably shouldn't have derailed quite so hard, because yeah, I think it's really hard to define the worker deletion thing. There's just so many legitimate reasons to do so. It was just an excuse to talk about spite whipping I guess. And to respond to the (good) discussion...

I've both whipped down and not. If you want to give them less overall and think you might come back for said city, which is my usual intention seems fine. I've also left them at full pop to keep them in resistance longer in hopes of me or others taking advantage of no / weak culture.

I have a little bit of time for this argument, as this is a tactical decision. I get this to an extent... However:

I disagree. Whipping is something you do to produce something. Dry whipping to produce a unit is fine. Whipping repeatedly simply to ensure the population disappears is, to me, exploiting a mechanic in an unintended way.

This is a really good way of stating my position. But the thing that annoys me the most is definitely this bit:

"and my last city is about to die, so it's Size 1 instead of Size 10", but I suspect how to cleanly draw the line is difficult.

ALL THAT SAID, I think the actual root is well put here:

And we at civforum are thinking, if you lose a grown city to a know army (at slavery), you are a bad defender.

I basically agree with this. If your city is captured at size 10, you messed up. However, I think some take this very true fact and misinterpret the proper response. Their response is "well I'm gonna whip 10 -> 1 in one turn" rather than reflect on the mistakes they made that resulted in a size 10 city being lost so that next time it's converted into 9 pop worth of units.

[scooter]

As for the game, Luddite lost a city to Cairo this turn. Here I was thinking Cairo was about to fold. Very surprising! But I have one piece of big news.





Wanna see some lake-bureau-capital-Moai-in-a-GA porn tomorrow?

[Zed-F]

Absolutely! And I'd like to see some more specifics on what the GP plan is once the GA starts up! Are you also looking to get the GLib, since it's worth a bunch of GSci points, or is that getting deferred?

I didn't realize Shiv hadn't built a Barracks up to this point. Does it have its Forge yet? If not, why is Barracks the priority over Forge? Definitely am interested in seeing an empire overview now that we're in peace time and most of the settler/worker builds are done.

[scooter]

I didn't realize Shiv hadn't built a Barracks up to this point. Does it have its Forge yet? If not, why is Barracks the priority over Forge? Definitely am interested in seeing an empire overview now that we're in peace time and most of the settler/worker builds are done.

Shiv didn't have a Barracks because it just wasn't online by the time the Byzantine conflict went hot, so I basically split my production into Zerks/Elephants (Barracks cities) and Galleys/Triremes (non-Barracks cities).


Anyway, Barracks now because it's required for Heroic Epic which I need to get built during this upcoming GA, and also because Forge would need a whip, and I cannot afford to whip it (yet). Basically I need Barracks and Heroic Epic both in that city, and I also need to grow, and I can slow-build those two in GA while growing, whereas a Forge I'd need to whip. It's definitely not as efficient this way on pure hammers, but it's a necessary evil I think. Partly because there's a non-zero chance I don't get to build all 3 buildings should something happen, and the Forge is the least important of the 3. (But still pretty important obviously.)

[scooter]

Any of you cool folks remember your starvation GPP mechanics so I don't have to test this? Imagine a scenario where you are going to starve. You have 1F in the foodbox and you are working the maximum specialists. You are size 6, so working 6 specialist and starving down to size 5. Do I understand the following correct?

* Next turn the city will be Size 5 with 0 food in the foodbox

* When pressing enter, you will starve to 5 before producing GPP, so you will instead produce 5 specialists worth of GPP rather than 6, even though you were working 6 of them when you pressed enter.


Is that correct?

[T-hawk]

Correct. The starving citizen is removed before he produces anything else including GPP. The only thing you do get is beakers, since that happens civ-wide before any per-city processing.

[scooter]

Thought so, thanks. Roman is going to have to starve one turn, but I think it's the only way to get out the necessary GP to both fire a 2-man and get a bulb or two done. However Roman was already bumping into happy cap, so it's something I can live with.





I think Cairo might be in trouble if he's backed all the way up this far. He lost another city, robbing me of more trade routes.





It's beautiful and nowhere near the ceiling. The market will give it a couple more sizes of happy cap as will some of the luxuries I'm about to hook. Library next, then Harbor for both health and extra commerce as it seems to actually be worthwhile in this specific case.





I'm uh, concerned about Oxy's GNP. He's not in a GA, and I am. Though this is a bit distorted by me teching something with no prereq bonus, it's still pretty rough. That said, I'm growing onto commerce everywhere right now, so it will improve. Enough? We'll see.

[Qgqqqqq]

Capital is missing colossus for true beauty.

[Cyneheard]

Quick C&D note (since with 3 opponents, we can get all 3 values):

3rd place GNP is 166*3 - (417 + 28) = 53-55 because rounding. So neither luddite or Cairo have any economic power at all.