Werewolf 7 game thread

[Roland]

I don't really care about Jkaen's activity, I care about what he said when he had a chance to be active.

These were #2 and #3 of his posts. He went from being surprised that people were taking uberfish serious to taking this all very seriously. This seemed very wolfish, and it stands out for him more so because of the few posts.

We were worried that wolves would ignore a village uberfish and then BW on him if they got the chance. Jkaen jumped on this bandwagon pretty smoothly with no one questioning him why.

That's why I voted him.

Interesting catch on Jkaen. I've been openly giving him a free pass do to his lack of time, but after Serdoa's post about inactivity and how it may be affecting the Village, I'm really starting to wonder if you're on to something. That is truly peculiar. I'm surprised I didn't pick up on that yesterday. Thanks for bringing it back to the forefront.

Specifically, what was your motivation for fake-editing that line of text? Did you want to deliberately send a message that you knew something important, and therefore leave the "I'll lay all my cards on the table" part of the sentence? Or did you genuinely believe the deadline was looming close and changed your mind at the last minute about potentially compromising a villager power role? And if so, why did you not remove the entire sentence, since you had realized you had another 24 hours? I don't think you have adequately explained this at all, and I got the impression you were wavering between (at least) two incompatible versions of events. To condense it: why would you be in such a rush about posting anything, once you realized you had another 24 hours?

I'd really like an explanation for this, as well, because it's the biggest thing making me suspect you. Considering I'm one of the few trying to defend you (because I see a lot of my own self in you, ala WW2 when I tried a very foolish gambit, got caught, and panicked so badly it took my whole "team" to calm me down), I don't want to find out I was suckered into defending you out of empathy when you really are a 'Wolf. You're hanging on by a thread in my mind.

I think scooter did a good enough job defending against your accusation, but I'll agree Twinkletoes'... didn't. It just seems fake to me. That's not to say I don't suspect scooter at all, but I'm trying to look at it from the perspective of someone with limited time (and thus limited commitment), and he seems to be acting how I'd expect in such a situation. Of course, the fact that he doesn't seem much more committed to playing this game than uberfish was certainly irks me, but I don't see that as a reason to lynch him. At least, not on its own.

[quote=Serdoa]I can't believe I didn't realize that this makes no sense as villager. You are suspicious about someone. That one is together with you on the block and the race is 5 vs 4 in votes. And instead of trying to save an innocent (yourself) you move your vote away to make it a 5 vs 3 vs 3? With 3 votes still to cast? Feeling lucky much?

Erebus

Chalk me up to the same realization, thanks to you. That is extremely odd.

Erebus, what do you have to say for yourself? That's now two big strikes against you in my mind, and I'm sorely tempted to switch from Catwalk to you. The only thing holding me back is Gaspar's voice ringing in the back of my mind - often my initial hunches are the right one, but I get talked out of them by others. So, convince me you're innocent. You did a better job when you were panicking. Despite what Catwalk thinks, I find emotional responses to be one of the best indicators of a person's true alignment. It's easy to write a convincing defense when you're calm and rational, but when you're all worked up it's much, much tougher not to slip up.

[scooter]

Okay, I'm caught up now. Finally settled down from a crazy Michigan win last night, which means I'm in a pretty good mood . One of the more exciting college football games I've watched in a long time. Anyways, back to this current craziness.

I see a lot of complaints about inactivity - to the point where basically every post is talking about "why don't we have more people talking"... Honestly, I don't have much to add at this point. I voted for Erebus, and I see no reason to change it. He looks, feels, and smells like a guy playing wolf for the first time who is panicking a little bit, and he's frustrated that he's caught with no way out. I know because I've been there done that - WW2. So what else is there to talk about? I feel like most of the discussion is talking around in circles while everyone basically says the same thing over and over again.*

By the way, you want to know the REAL reason why it seems like discussion is slow? It's because we haven't had any role-claims and because there's no seer in this game. This is what I actually said back when the game was being planned and it's part of why I didn't want to sign up (mostly the busy-ness, but partially this too) - is that the theatrics that seer + fool add into the game make it much more fun and give us something to talk about. Remember, WW6 was an exception in that the seer claim didn't come until Day4, but seer stuff gives us WAY more to talk about (there's usually discussion on who to scry, for instance). Honestly, in this game right now, we just don't have much to talk about. Everyone has their opinions and nobody is changing anyone's minds. Roland writes 2,500 words about absolutely nothing, Zakalwe writes the same amount of words but breaks it into 12 posts, Gaspar makes intelligent but abrasive remarks, Meiz makes up his mind and then interprets everything around that, etc etc etc. So really, what else is there to add when everyone basically has their mind made up?

It's pretty clear that Erebus and Catwalk are the people that most people suspect right now, with myself getting some of it too. But honestly, I don't have much more to say. Even if I had all day, I don't know what you'd expect me to do, because there's just not that much to talk about right now.*

So let's all settle down and cast our votes. Ichabod, TT, and Jkaen are all still waiting to cast their votes for whatever reason (starting to fear Jkaen may never come back), so let's get them down and see what happens. I understand how important discussion is for the village, but the current discussions are going nowhere, and I can't keep track of why certain people suspect who anymore. Several people are just saying the same thing over and over again, and really I don't see how that's productive. I'm sticking with my Erebus vote for reasons that I'm not going to repeat yet again, and I hope a good number of people agree with me because he's starting to seem really obvious to me.*

[scooter]

Oh, and my references to Roland, zakalwe, Gaspar, and meiz were not intended to offend and were intentionally exaggerated a bit to make a point. So if you're one of those 4, I was generalizing and exaggerating a bit - please don't take offense . It was just to illustrate my point.

[Roland]

Oh, and my references to Roland, zakalwe, Gaspar, and meiz were not intended to offend and were intentionally exaggerated a bit to make a point. So if you're one of those 4, I was generalizing and exaggerating a bit - please don't take offense . It was just to illustrate my point.

I'm going to take that as me being very verbose, and expending a great deal of energy trying to get across a simple (or not so simple) point in more words than most people would use. Otherwise, I probably would take offense - and I don't like you nearly enough to let you get away with that without some sort of retort.

That, and I had to laugh a little at the other three people you chose, so I guess it wouldn't exactly be appropriate for me to do that and still get offended. :neenernee

I have to say, though, I think the discussion has actually ramped up quite a bit. I think part of it was simply timezone cycles, part of it was people waiting for someone else to post something first, and yes part of it not having a Seer. On the other hand, I don't think the lack of a Seer is making this game any less fun. At least, I've been enjoying myself - although part of that's probably my efforts to not take this game quite as seriously as I did WW2, which very nearly killed off WW for me altogether.

Anyway, enough sidetracking.

[Meiz]

I've accused scooter from lack of original thoughts, but the biggest thing that stand out from his play is the accusations he makes. Examples:

Against Zak, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=190

Watch him. He's wildly inconsistent right not, flinging accusations against people to keep attention off himself. He attacked TT for doing the same thing he did... Then he spent time arguing the uberfish thing was pointless and now he's voting for me based on my uberfish reaction. What? Sounds like someone who is trying to herd sheep rather than someone who is playing to help the village.

Against me, http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=394

Meiz - I'm curious... Why do you blast me for raising my eyebrows at Erebus and the vig comments, but not Serdoa who basically just said the same thing as me? Is it because I'm an easy target with some suspicion and Serdoa is a difficult target since me mostly believe him to be innocent? Your comments that I'm not playing as well as I could - well see my above explanation. You blasted me for my Uberfish post and claimed I lifted it all from someone else... which is 1) ridiculous and 2) highly ironic since your line of argument against me has already been used by other people, so you aren't exactly breaking any new ground yourself there. In fact, you seem to stick to easy targets, which is a pretty typical wolf thing to do. Just sayin.

IMO he overreacts and twists things to make his targets look worse than what actually has been happening. He explained the Zak accusation by being annoyed. Quite simply, it's the total opposite of what I'd expect of him.

[Serdoa]

I don't really care about Jkaen's activity, I care about what he said when he had a chance to be active.

These were #2 and #3 of his posts. He went from being surprised that people were taking uberfish serious to taking this all very seriously. This seemed very wolfish, and it stands out for him more so because of the few posts.

We were worried that wolves would ignore a village uberfish and then BW on him if they got the chance. Jkaen jumped on this bandwagon pretty smoothly with no one questioning him why.

That's why I voted him.

Interesting catch on Jkaen. I've been openly giving him a free pass do to his lack of time, but after Serdoa's post about inactivity and how it may be affecting the Village, I'm really starting to wonder if you're on to something. That is truly peculiar. I'm surprised I didn't pick up on that yesterday. Thanks for bringing it back to the forefront.

Thanks Roland, that was something I wanted to comment on as well, but in a different vein. You know I suspect Jkaen. But that is simply because of his inactivity and what happens in this thread that makes me suspect that several wolves are rather inactive (what I mean is that not all inactives are wolves but several wolves are to be found within the inactives). But what Erebus wrote is imo wrong. Lets look at it more closely:

Post #2 of Jkaen was post 175 of the thread
Post #3 of Jkaen was post 234 of the thread

Thats 60 posts and 5 hours in between. Don't get me wrong but it happened a lot in that time and enough that warrants that Jkaen thinks a second time about that whole uberfish play. But tbh what I told you right now is probably irrelevant anyway. Look at Jkaens posts

#2:

Just as a FYI, when I read uberfishes post I chuckled and moved on and was shocked that people were actually taking it serious

There was much talk about uberfish post before, especially how people have reacted to it. Some of that talk was from people who could not believe that anyone would take uberfishs posting as a joke. He commented on that.

#3: I don't quote that one. Basically he talks about the uberfish-situation, what he thinks and why that makes him change his vote.

And now Erebus comes and tells us that is wolfish by Jkaen. But please, tell me what is wolfish exactly? That he thought uberfishs posting was a joke and that he still considers seriously the fallout of it? Erebus makes it sound like Jkaen has changed his stance, but look at those postings for yourself. Jkaen didn't change his stance at all. Because the content of those two postings is not related with each other. I am not sure if I can get my point across, but in a nutshell:

Jkaens posting #2 comments on uberfishs posting in itself while Jkaens posting #3 comments on the situation which has evolved due to uberfishs posting.

[Gaspar]

I suppose that's also an option, but is it a likely one? There've been many suspects over the day, I don't think the wolf team would let two wolves rise slowly during the day with this many to choose from and this little activity. Why do you consider two wolves to be more likely than one wolf and one villager? As for two villagers, I think we'd both have more votes if that was the case.

1 of each almost guarantees movement. For one, I think it's highly likely at least one of the non-voters is a wolf. Every game a wolf plays the "too busy-bad villager" gambit because it's a good way for a player who is bad at lying to hide long enough to help team wolf (Gustaran, Molach in the last two games. So since team wolf expects them to die anyway it's quite logical to use them to generate a desired late swing. The double voter only compounds this issue. So if we had a villager and a wolf on the block I'd expect to have seen some movemen by now to prep that late move. More likely they've simply chosen their sacrifice at this point. The other option, both villagers, means they don't really care and are probably onto talking about who they eat tonight.

While im not saying there's no chance it's 1 and 1 on the block, I'm just suggesting there isn't a lot in today's voting to suggest it. Combined that with what I believe are a pair of dangerous tells from Erebus I'm happy to lynch him and let that guide what I feel about your alignment.

[scooter]

Quite simply, it's the total opposite of what I'd expect of him.

Serious question Meiz - what exactly do you expect of me? I've had exactly 48 hours of experience playing villager, and day1 is not really normal at all anyways, so honestly I'm pretty much brand new to playing villager. What exactly do you expect of me that I'm doing so differently?

[Gaspar]

And re: scooter - if you're innocent you're not doing yourself or the village any favors.

[scooter]

And re: scooter - if you're innocent you're not doing yourself or the village any favors.

How so?