Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[scooter]

I sent my last draft. There's changes we could make theoretically, but I think we're easily past the point of diminishing returns. I'm pretty happy with this message, so I went with it.

[Ceiliazul]

I think people are making good suggestions, but I also think this is one of those situations where the draft is as close to perfect as it needs to be, and we are better served by sending it out than discussing it further .

Darrell

Agree with Darrell.

Also, confirmed. My kill counts were from the end of the replay (forgot the HA, thanks). My WPC counts were from the linked pics in my post.

[Lord Parkin]

That 4 turns they spent whipping longbows and war elephants, and that basically turned the tide of the war up there.

Should have been "they spent 4 turns whipping...", but oh well.

[antisocialmunky]

I just realized that Civfr's strategy of hurting us with ivory trade basically sealed the deal against WPC. The Germans whipped elephants instead of Longbow garrisons and gave the Germans a strength 8 attacker to rape wpc.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

That ivory gift by CivFr really is the gift that kept on giving. We should thank them in a snarky email with lots of neer-neer faces.

[scooter]

Reply from WPC:

Thanks for the reply Scooter. And thanks for the info on units.

To continue the discussion, I can share our numbers as well, and I believe they support our position pretty clearly

To start with, I can't easily get our numbers from turn 150, but two turns later we had 389k of units. Slightly more than you had on turn 150, albeit as you have pointed out, not particularly strong units. And both of us were building more units during those turns. So we did not start out markedly weaker than you.

We have killed 163k worth of German units in this war:

15 axes
8 catapults
2 elephants
1 longbow
2 spears
4 chariots
1 quechua

Bearing down on us at the start of the last turn were:

4 chariots
13 war elephants
6 horse archers
4 longbows
9 catapults
4 axes
1 spear
2 quechuas

And in Warendorf: 2 longbows

That is 265k of units, most of which were previously defending us in Warendorf. And which we went to great expense to pin them there. If you recall, we wanted to move on to Wessleburn and hopefully split their defence. One of your team members ranted at me about our plan, and you wrote this to us:

"but if you guys want to make any progress it's pretty important that we both keep up the pressure on them and that their core cities start falling quickly. I'd really suggest you guys turn around and take a shot at Warendorf instead. Many of their units are going to turn around and fight us anyway since you can't hit the city for a few more turns, so things should be softened by the time you get there. The longer you wait, the more longbows will be present, and that will make it impossible for you guys to make any gains. The tundra cities will still be there for the taking when the core cities fall."

So, we stuck it out at Warendorf, clearly facing the larger portion of the German army.

If you add the 163k we have killed, that means we have killed and/or been facing 428k of German units, almost double of what you have had to face and kill.

Another perspective that supports our position. On turn 152, the turn we would have been attacking Warendorf had we gone straight in as has been suggested we should have, the German military in and around Warendorf was as follows:

11 catapults
3 war elephants
5 chariots
2 spears
15 axes

That totals 182k worth of units, almost the entire total you killed in taking some 10 cities.

Also of note, we have lost some 70 units totalling 298k.

So, I agree that you have had to do some serious fighting to take what you have, but the numbers show that you faced about half of the German military that we did. And that is reflected in your success in the war. And our lack thereof.

Cheers, Beta

[Sullla]

So.... we're all agreed on not saving these guys from the German invasion, right?

[antisocialmunky]

Only if we can get the Germans to conquer all of wpc.

[Cyneheard]

So.... we're all agreed on not saving these guys from the German invasion, right?

I want to decide after we see the new tactical situation. If we can end this this turn, we do it period.

[Ruff_Hi]

Beta is basically saying that our progress was much easier than it would have been if WPC wasn't in the hunt. I think that is 100% right. True, WPC wasn't ever in the hunt ... but the Germans were pretty happy sticking it to them instead of (trying to) fight us off.