[SPOILERS] Donovan Zoi and AdrienIer: Slümhund Millionaires!

[AdrienIer]

It's a hot war though, which wasn't a given

[GermanJoey]

I share your frustration. I was on the wrong end of this kind of thing in my last game and have strong feelings about it too. Just have to make sure to include the ban in the rule set during setup. I'm sure that isn't helpful now but what else is there? This has been going on for a long time in this game already and it's too late to change course.

Yeah, at this point you just gotta deal with it. The game is over 200 turns in, too late to change the rules.

my two cents: I think its disappointing that stuff like Unit trading, City trading, Limited-Diplo (PB28), AI-Diplo, Active Espionage, Corps, etc, don't actually work out in practice. I like there being more ways for players into interact beyond who has more hammers/beakers where, and, IMHO, for each item I listed there's good cases for where they make sense and make the game richer. But, it turns out to be impossible to have the good without the horrible, horrible, game-ruining bad.

For example, trading/selling units for a reasonable price? That's totally cool with me, as is conducting shadow wars, to a limited extent. Not like what Tasunke did, of course,where he gifted over his entire army for nothing. But you know what's bullshit and a clear abuse of the rules? Gifting units to a third party (civ C) at war with your enemy (civ B) to get around your enforced 10T peace treaty with civ B. Also: gifting units so that they can be used in a different part of the turn timer to get a free double-move. Both things happened in this game.

Likewise, trading cities + gold where each civ owns just 1 city on a separate continent, or giving back cities that you took in a war to their original owner in a peace treaty with that same civ - both of these ideas make a lot of sense to me. But "selling" multiple hard-fought cities for a fucking pittance gpt (that could actually have just been immediately canceled by a war dec)? Disgusting. Another example: gifting cities back to a third party ("liberating" them in a "real trade" for "diplomatic goodwill") in order for that party's borders to expand, not only giving the gifter extra movement in formerly-enemy territory but also preventing the city's immediate recapture. Again, both happened this game.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be possible to separate "reasonable" from "unreasonable" transactions without some sort of iron-fisted admin checking over every little thing, something that would suck in its own right. Even then, people have wildly different ideas of what is reasonable and what is not. The alternative of self-reporting, limited supervision, i.e. what we were supposed to have in this game, just doesn't work because it turns out half the players just ignore it whenever they feel like it. So, its best to just ban it all. Fuck it. At least the game is still fair then.

I like a lot of the ideas in active/passive espionage and corps, but in those cases more so that their systems are totally broken than their needing admin supervision.

[Donovan Zoi]

Yes, I agree with pretty much everything you have said, Joey. It would be nice if these things didn't happen, but I don't really want the game to have to be micromanaged either. The only one of your examples I remember witnessing was the city sale on your old island, so I guess the spoiler threads will be a fun read.

Well, thanks to you all for chiming in. It does make me feel better that we are on the "right side of history" though, and I'm certainly not looking for special treatment. I just didn't realize that such a thing was so prevalent in this game.

I still think that such actions should be punished whenever possible. So I intend to do just that.

Strap yourselves in and prepare to root for the last honorable man in Civ as he exacts his vengence. Along with me playing the turns!

[Donovan Zoi]

I'll just assume the units were sold for a good price until proven otherwise.

Oh, they were. I just didn't report how we got all of our upgrade gold. #insidejob

Civstats says HAK and Commodore are at war. Interesting.

Eurasia has always been at war with East Asia.

Yes, I guess I have been a bit self absorbed in my reporting for some reason. I think Commodtay is making their gains at the bottom of the map. I'll try to get more details on this soon.

[AdrienIer]

I still think that such actions should be punished whenever possible. So I intend to do just that.

That's the spirit !

[Donovan Zoi]

206





DZ's 24hr boycott/hizzy fit over but writers srtike is not. He tole me what 2rite
Gavagui is on the island pretty good now. Lots of unitts; I left a hint!




Ataax on Froninack and Haig comin soon..

GP next turn from Sam N Falls, 40% chance of

[Dreylin]

GP next turn from Sam N Falls, 40% chance of

Surely Sam N Fails...

[Donovan Zoi]

Surely Sam N Fails...

It all depends how badly HAK wants Ruff to have it!

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 207 - 1480 AD

I was the last to play in T206, so I got to watch the turn roll. We ended up getting a Great Scientist to start the turn. Awesome, maybe we could shave a turn off of Chemistry. This would be important because Ruff had a target of 5 turns for the same tech. It would then be a race of who could build or upgrade the most Frigates the fastest, and Ruff had 4-5 Caravels in the eastern channel at least. We will have to build ours.

You can see the tech research for everyone below -- I hadn't adjusted our slider yet. You can also see what would be the objective for this turn: Mowing down the 15 defenders in Frontenac and retaking the city.




I logged out, dwelling on how I was going to navigate this two front war. I wanted to be able to contain Gavagai's new tightly-packed aggression but didn't want to end our drive against Ruff now that the tables had turned. Then upon logging in, I witnessed the following gift:




Wow, seriously? This is the second time that Gavagai has done this, having a huge stack at my doorstep but then inexplicably offering peace. He must really want to get back at HAK.

And then I am not sure why I did this, but I closed the offer without accepting to look at the save! What could have possibly happened in the turn that would have kept me from locking this in? Who knows, but I would remain on edge until the next turn apparently.

Oh well, can't worry about it now...we have a city to get back! And that's pretty much what we did, sending 7 Cats in to soften Ruff's defenses and then cleaning up with 16 Cuirassiers (losing only 3). And as promised, I sent one of our GG's in the region to welcome Frontenac back to our empire.




That's right, our 25/26 XP Med I Chariot went up against an 0.3/9 Musket and won to get that one crucial XP for Med II. I then drafted a Musket in Frontenac and dry-whipped Walls for 2 pop just to dissuade Ruff from getting any ideas.

At turn's end, we were setting up an attack on the Hague but didn't have enough to guarantee victory. Heck, we pushed our troops to the limit already to take Frontenac back because I had already sent a bunch on Cuirs to Rottterdam. Yet with each successful battle, our advantage continued to grow. But I am still not ready to let up on the Zulu just yet, so the war mobilization continues. Also, we will be getting Chemistry in 4!




Yeah I know, we don't have the Forbidden Palace yet but I'm working on it! It's kind of a neccesity now to regulate the corruption from 3 former Aztec cities. I had always planned on building Versailles in Chesapeake to secure it, knowing we could save our FP for later. So a detour to Divine Right may be necessary at some point soon.

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 208 - 1480 AD

Just like T207, this turn opened with a peace treaty. Did Gav do the same thing I did and close to look at the save? He did shift his troops to his border that I could have attacked if I had the resources or desire to do so.




I am glad I looked closely, as the peace offer was from Ruff! I closed the diplo screen without accepting but wondering when Ruff could expect the next gift from HAK. After all, HAK has Rifles and Cavalry available to build now. I also found that Gavagai did indeed accept the peace offer I sent back to him last turn. With 10 turns of security on the island (still keeping tabs on Commodore though),I can temporarily move some units from the island to help against the Zulu.

On the mainland, promotion ceremonies were held in Frontenac for our GG Chariot, Heinz Guderian. He couldn't fully enjoy the revelry however since I had to send him up to Rotterdam to be there for our Hague attack force next turn.




Our Med III Warrior was already sent to the Cuir stack last turn, so let the healing begin! Next turn, an amazing 10 Cuirs of 13 will be 100% again -- the most injured unit to heal in 1 turn is 7.4/12.




So here are the next objectives:

The Hague
Defended by 8 Muskets and a Cat but built on Plains. We have 10 Cuirs, 6 Cats and a few one-movers in the region to take the city.

Epiris
Defended by 11 Cats, 4 Knights, 3 XBows, 3 Longbows and a Chariots. I may have missed 1-2 but there are less than 24 units here. The idea will be to send a stack of about 40 units with the Med III Warrior. Ruff will then need to decide whether he wants to collateral our stack or to bail; however my plan is to have 7-8 Cats of our own to hit the city regardless of what our stack endures. We may lose a few good units, our Cats may get flanked, but the majority will heal quickly.

After that, only The Fortress has any significant defense (about 7 units + 6 Cats). So we just follow the same formula as Epiris (but on a smaller scale) while we advance on Ruff's core, 8-10 cities defended by no more than 2 units each.

I also have a Sentry Horse Archer that has just returned from a long tour of scouting Gavagai's and HAK's territiories during peacetime for each. So after such a plum assignment that still had his dangers, I am mulling over whether to send him on a suicide mission to clear the only fog I can't see in Ruff's territory --- 4 tiles east of The Fortress that concern me since one of the gifted Cuirs is no longer present in the city. I have a turn or two to decide this, after which we initiate the Acceleration Phase of this war.