Werewolf 7 game thread

[Meiz]

Erebus' vig comments stuck out more than others, to the point where I wondered if he was vig until he said he wasn't. Several others agreed with me, but for some reason you didn't blast them for unoriginal content.

No one can have new content in every post. It's just that you don't seem to have it in majority of your posts.

Then I also noted that his style read to me as panicky and frustrated that he was caught and could do nothing about it, which I've experienced and seen before as someone who has played 2 full WW games. I also found somE of his posts yesterday to be bizarre - most notably the fakesdit, but others have detailed all that stuff so I wasnt about to rehash it when I've seen plenty enough to believe he's the person I should be voting for.

Thanks for opening your thoughts a bit. This is part what I'm missing from you, to get some idea what goes on in your head. Still nothing original though, unfortunately... . Just echoes from what others have already said.

Why is it a problem if I let others do the bulk of the analysis and I digest it and vote.

Because it's the perfect cover for a wolf.

You've always been cool with novice doing that.

There's a reason why everyone suspects novice at some point of the game. But I agree, he gets away with it more easily than you do.

4. I find a lot of your criticisms of me to be highly hypocritical. Really, am I dismissing you?? Since when? Seems like you criticise me for not spamming as much as you and then when I write a longer post you dismiss it as unoriginal or something ridiculous like that. It's just silly at this point.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, when I say you are dismissing my points . I could give a lot of similar examples, but again people know how to use search function, see for themselves and draw own conclusions.

[Meiz]

The attitude you take against me is exactly the same as it was in WW3 (and you were a wolf then). I don't know, maybe that's what you always do, but I'd expect more from villager scooter.

[Sareln]

Checking in. Quick read through most of the posts given while gone. I don't see any compelling reason to move off of Erebus. Am very concerned about the 3 votes just sort of hanging out there with most of the day gone. @MNG, I think you're looking for something different than I'm willing to write on day 2 when you say "contributions". Anyways, have to go, we'll see how the card falls but Erebus trying to discredit me with the tally counts is just too suspicious for me to let slide.

Someone should build a tally for Mardoc b/c the last tally is something like 5 pages in, can't do it today myself.

/iPod

[Ichabod]

And Catwalk's summary. By the way, I'm combining small or linked posts into one bullet. So the number of posts won't match the number of bullets. Same thing with Erebus earlier.

(List)

*This seems like Catwalk's hedging his bets, backing down after being so sure for a dozen or so posts.

I agree with this. His comment seemed too dismissive for someone that appeared to be so sure about uberfish. But I guess Catwalk can be that players that try to show they are really sure about something in order to have the others agreeing with him, even if they aren't that sure.

As a reference, here is my answer to your question: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post177656
I feel like I already answered to a lot your points, but maybe the answers were not satisfactory

Yes, but the suspicion against scooter was nothing solid, just hunches because of his low contributions (IMO).


Yep, I was taunting him a bit and voicing my displease to his answers. But again my suspicions were not even nearly solid at all.

TT was on the block, uberfish was on the block. Both were acting suspiciously. I had not have time to re-read the thread a second time (was left on page 15) and the only third suspect I found was Lewwyn. So I simply had better targets than scooter on day 1 and didn't see much reason to bring a fourth candidate just because of a hunch I can't pinpoint to.

Left TT out?

Meiz, my last post about you really repeated my earlier question, which you had already answered. But I wanted to present the whole case that made me suspect you, in order to not have misunderstandings.

I read your answer. The thing is, much of my suspect is based on wether you really suspected scooter (or tried to show that you suspected him) in your earlier posts or not. If you say you were joking, I can't believe it just like that. So, I think my argument still stands.

But, like I said before, I won't vote for you now. There were two things that made me suspect you, this sequence of events, and the fact that you found catwalk innocent while I suspected him, which you already explained, and I liked your explanation. But the rest of your play don't seem suspicious to me, and the other players don't think there was anything much strange about the sequence of facts that I presented, which leads me to believe that I may be misinterpreting things.

I don't really care about Jkaen's activity, I care about what he said when he had a chance to be active.





These were #2 and #3 of his posts. He went from being surprised that people were taking uberfish serious to taking this all very seriously. This seemed very wolfish, and it stands out for him more so because of the few posts.

We were worried that wolves would ignore a village uberfish and then BW on him if they got the chance. Jkaen jumped on this bandwagon pretty smoothly with no one questioning him why.

That's why I voted him.

I was going to comment on this, especially after Roland agreed with Erebus, but Serdoa said what I wanted to say:

Thanks Roland, that was something I wanted to comment on as well, but in a different vein. You know I suspect Jkaen. But that is simply because of his inactivity and what happens in this thread that makes me suspect that several wolves are rather inactive (what I mean is that not all inactives are wolves but several wolves are to be found within the inactives). But what Erebus wrote is imo wrong. Lets look at it more closely:

Post #2 of Jkaen was post 175 of the thread
Post #3 of Jkaen was post 234 of the thread

Thats 60 posts and 5 hours in between. Don't get me wrong but it happened a lot in that time and enough that warrants that Jkaen thinks a second time about that whole uberfish play. But tbh what I told you right now is probably irrelevant anyway. Look at Jkaens posts

#2:

There was much talk about uberfish post before, especially how people have reacted to it. Some of that talk was from people who could not believe that anyone would take uberfishs posting as a joke. He commented on that.

#3: I don't quote that one. Basically he talks about the uberfish-situation, what he thinks and why that makes him change his vote.

And now Erebus comes and tells us that is wolfish by Jkaen. But please, tell me what is wolfish exactly? That he thought uberfishs posting was a joke and that he still considers seriously the fallout of it? Erebus makes it sound like Jkaen has changed his stance, but look at those postings for yourself. Jkaen didn't change his stance at all. Because the content of those two postings is not related with each other. I am not sure if I can get my point across, but in a nutshell:

Jkaens posting #2 comments on uberfishs posting in itself while Jkaens posting #3 comments on the situation which has evolved due to uberfishs posting.

Which is perfect. If you read posts by getting the list of posts by people, there's the risk of losing the context in which the post was made.

After having slept I am at least a little bit less frustrated. I tried to ask myself why we see such an - imo - akward game right now. Basically Ichabod pointed to it, you suspect someone but often shortly after there comes a post from that person and you start to question yourself. You go and reread the postings of that player and ... feel he could very well be innocent. Somebody commented on my innocent list to be fluid and thats exactly the reason for it. Also I do play a little different since last game as I realized that keeping an innocent list is much easier then trying to find wolves. Mostly everyone will talk sometimes in a suspicious way, you can't help that. Be it because you are frustrated (like I yesterday) or that you are hungry, tired or whatever and rush your post. But posting in a way that feels villagerish is much harder.

Having said that, lets get back to my initial question: Why do we see such an akward game? I think it is because most of our wolves are inactive. It is normal that we go for people who are talking, leaving the quiet ones alone. EVERY WW-game since we started them here has shown that you can get as wolf to Day 3 or 4 without talking all that much. Yes, some players will suspect you. But normally there are always villagers who state that people should not be voted off just because they do not have time. It is the fear of hurting someones feelings I guess. And then you always hear "We can come back later for them". Well, if our wolves all have not much time, it gets harder from day to day to come back to them.

Now, whom do we have as inactive:

TT
Jkaen
scooter

Others don't have that much posts (Ichabod) but the content speaks for itself. Injera has lately also made the jump to my "rather innocent"-list. Oh, before I go on, I should explain that list I guess. What I do is keeping an Excel-table with the names of all players. The dead ones are listed seperately in the top rows with their alignment. The living ones are listed below and I have in every column several cells in green with villager and orange with wolf which I drag to the respective player according to my feelings. Making that with several columns gives me the possibility to move the roles around because I am not always sure on someone. Obviously for some people I always have the same alignment in every column. Thats when someone gets in my "innocent-camp". It's when I can't think of any reason for him to be anything else then a villager. Maybe thats not helpful for you guys but I thought explaining what I do might help understand me better.

Ok, back to the game. I suspect (and I am not the only one) that we find some wolves within those 3 players. And that is probably also why we don't get anything going, why we have votes going back and forth without having one clear direction. Because everyone posting somehow does sound in line with how we expect him to post. Some we don't know that well (Erebus, Injera, catwalk) though. Injera I can't comment on tbh, I don't know nothing about him. catwalk I feel sounds like the catwalk from last game. Erebus on the other hand I can agree that he sounds like he is panicking. Could he be a panicking wolf? Yes I think he could as from last game I got a different impression for him. I didn't think he would panick as easily and also I feel his comment about "if you lynch me because of my mistake, so be it" to be off. Why would you not write something along the lines of "I made nearly a mistake there, don't do the same by lynching me!"? I don't know how to explain that, but that whole sentence sits wrong with me. It is simply not what I expect a villager and not what I expect Erebus after last game to play like.

And what do you know, in the meantime of me typing this (for nearly 2 hours now what nobody will believe when he sees that small text...) he starts to defend himself differently, by instead trying to go for the next best target and the only one realistically by now having enough votes. At least that is more believeable.

I wanted to vote Erebus now, but after those last posts I instead go with the train of thought I had above and vote:

scooter for now

Hopefully some people join in so that he will get some heat.

I agree with Serdoa again here. It's definetely a possibility that we have wolves playing quietly. I would agree to vote in scooter or TT (even though scooter started posting a bit more, I actually think that there are merits to some of the argumetns to suspect scooter), but not on Jkaen. I said that Jkaen was in an important travel, it seems. Lynching him would be just randomly lynching someone. At least we have comments by TT and scooter.

Hopefuly Jkaen can post to at least avoid a mod-kill until he's back from his travel.

Funny thought came to my mind seeing that two of my biggest suspects (scooter and TT) painted suspicion against me. I'm like a poor man's Zakalwe . I feel I'm good at projecting my innocence and I'm trying to come up with original observations, but the execution part of this might be lacking. I don't feel my accusations are taken in the same seriousness than for example Zakalwe's or Ichabod's (and I understand that). And it seems like I can't explain my thoughts as well as I'd like, after seeing Ichabod's and Roland's messages of "something" being odd with my play . But my point is, I'm much easier person to attack than for example Zakalwe is. When I read scooter's and TT's accusations against me, I don't think they hold much merit. But I can understand why a wolf would select me as their target. The accusations I'm referring to:



Not saying that suspecting me is stupid and you're a wolf if you do that. I have no problems regarding Roland's and Ichabod's doubts against me. But I do think that scooter and TT found excuses to attack me, instead of honestly finding something odd and then voicing their doubts.

Just to reinforce the comment, Meiz: I don't think there's something odd with your play in general. Your play in general is what made me not vote to lynch you. I just suspected you because of two specific incidents, one of which was the most suspicious to have happened on day 1.

Well, I am active but looking at the last tally and seeing that 3 people still haven't voted even that we are 5,5 hours from days end is somehow hitting my motivation pretty hard.

Anyway, for your point



Do I understand it right that you think there should be more votes on you and him if you both are innocent because that would make it safer for the wolves? If so, look at the tallies:

- 3 people are not voting at all (Ichabod, TT, Jkaen)

2 of them have pretty much checked out of this game already imo and if they are wolves (what I suspect as explained before) it makes sense not to come here and vote before it gets even later, making sure they can influence the vote like they want. And if asked, well, they didn't have time earlier, had to make a decision in a split-second and oh well, what a shame it hit a villager.

- 3 are neither voting for you nor Erebus (Erebus, Meiz, myself)

2 of them (Meiz and I) are regarded innocent by most. For myself I can tell you that I think you both are innocent. I mean, think about it. You both are suspected by some. And you both push to lynch the other. What is the most probably thing happening if we lynch one of you and he is a villager? Yeah, exactly, people who suspected the other one will see that as another reason to push for his lynch. Great for the wolves, bad for us. Basically, if one of you is a wolf, I would expect a push on someone else or just the passive defense which zak asked for.

Oh, and having written that, I realize that that is exactly what Erebus did. You were his best bet to get off the hook. But he moved the vote away from you, making it much more possible that he get lynched. I have to admit I didn't realize that, because I was happy that my scooter-vote gets traction and wanted to ask now that zak and you vote for scooter too. But thinking about all that, what do you do as a villager on the block in such a situation as we have it? The most villagerish thing to do is stay on the other most probable lynch-target, because you know that you are innocent so lynching you would be a loss for certain. And being on the block yourself, you have to look for self-preservation. And not state



I can't believe I didn't realize that this makes no sense as villager. You are suspicious about someone. That one is together with you on the block and the race is 5 vs 4 in votes. And instead of trying to save an innocent (yourself) you move your vote away to make it a 5 vs 3 vs 3? With 3 votes still to cast? Feeling lucky much?

Erebus

I was having the same feeling with Erebus then I had with my other suspects: there was some suspicious things, but other posts seemed like villager. But the bolded part made me take a decision to vote Erebus. It really didn't make any sense. And the other points raised against Erebus are good too. Zakalwe initial arguments didn't sound that strong to me, but the way Erebus started to react was very strange.

If I'm not mistaken, Erebus posted very little on day 1 and on day 2 his activity raised by a lot. Now, Erebus posts seem "strange" and inconsistent (like the outing the vigilante would make him a confirmed villager and the fake edit, for example). It's not much, but it's probably the most I can get. And since after he was attacked the rate of villager posts decreased by a lot (the Jkaen vote was based on an error - which could have been just a mistake, but alas - and the scooter vote, like Serdoa pointed out, made no sense), I think there's actually merit in voting for him.

@Catwalk.

If you think the Uberfish bandwagon was propelled by a desire to save TT, then you should look at those who really got it started. That was you and me, obviously, followed by Scooter, Meiz, and JKaen. Lewwyn was after that, and innocent, and I think the late votes from MNG and Sareln are less incriminating in the context of saving TT. (They could still be wolves of course; everybody needs to place their vote somewhere.)

Of course none of that is particularly meaningful if TT is innocent, so you may be getting a bit ahead of yourself.

Agreed with this post as well. I can't agree with Catwalk's reasoning on Sareln, even though I still suspect Sareln.

[Catwalk]

I'm getting a feeling that there should be more pressure on either me or scooter if Erebus was a wolf. Does everybody still feel confident Erebus is the best bet?

[Gaspar]

Can anyone at a computer do a tally?

Also, very disappointed if TT and Jkaen can't vote at all.

Sorry Erebus, I like to stir the pot as much as anyone AND I hate landslides, but I can't see any compelling evidence to not think you are the most likely wolf right now.

[Serdoa]

I'll do a short tally soon. But first:

@catwalk

I will stay on Erebus for today. But I am starting to consider what Gaspar said about two wolves in the running. Because honestly, you act as weird as Erebus did. You are finally saved and the first thing you do is not show a sign of relief but instead be unhappy because you are not pressured more?

[zakalwe]

Updated short tally

6v: Erebus (Zakalwe, Catwalk, Gaspar, scooter, Sareln, Serdoa)
3v: Catwalk (Roland, Injera, MNG)
2v: Scooter (Meiz, Erebus)

Not Voting (3/14): Ichabod, Jkaen, Twinkletoes89

Move on to Erebus Meiz. That makes it 7 on him. I'd hope that Ichabod or Roland will switch to Erebus as well as what I fear most right now is that we have a 7vs7 at the end and the double-voter is used.

Since this, I believe the only change is that Ichabod voted for Erebus, bumping him up to 7 votes.

[Catwalk]

Well, I don't want another villager to hang. You don't know I'm innocent, but I do. I'm happy to not hang, yes. But I do find the lack of pressure against other candidates to be curious. I'm a villager, and I'm still a fairly easy target. I'd think the wolves would have a greater interest in me if Erebus was a wolf. I agree with the other evidence brought up against Erebus, but this sticks out to me.

[Serdoa]

Lynch:

7v: Erebus (Zakalwe, Catwalk, Gaspar, scooter, Sareln, Serdoa, Ichabod)
3v: Catwalk (Roland, Injera, MNG)
2v: Scooter (Meiz, Erebus)

Not Voting (2/14): Jkaen, Twinkletoes89

1. MNG votes for Roland
   
2. Erebus votes for JKaen
   
3. Scooter votes for JKaen
   
4. MNG switches from Roland to Scooter
   
5. Gaspar votes for Ichabod
   
6. Serdoa votes Sareln
   
7. Meiz votes for Scooter
   
8. Serdoa switches from Sareln to Scooter
   
9. Catwalk votes for Injera
   
10. Zakalwe votes for Erebus
    
11. Injera votes for Zakalwe
    
12. Catwalk switches from Injera to Erebus
    
13. Serdoa switches from Scooter to Erebus
    
14. Sareln votes for JKaen
    
15. Gaspar switches from Ichabod to Catwalk
    
16. Erebus switches from JKaen to Catwalk
    
17. Serdoa switches from Erebus to Zakalwe
    
18. Gaspar switches from Catwalk to Erebus
    
19. MNG switches from Scooter to Sareln
    
20. scooter switches from Jkaen to Erebus
    
21. Sareln switches from Jkaen to Erebus
    
22. Roland votes for Catwalk
    
23. Injera switches from Zakalwe to Catwalk
    
24. MNG switches from Sareln to Injera
    
25. MNG switches from Injera to catwalk
    
26. Serdoa switches from zakalwe to scooter
    
27. Erebus switches from catwalk to scooter
    
28. Serdoa switches from scooter to Erebus
    
29. Ichabod votes for Erebus
    

Please check for errors.