Furthermore, I have a slight hunch that Old Harry is innocent. I'd put the odds as about 55-45 multiplied by the village to scum ratio. At least, I'll have a better handle on it after night 2 (and no, that has nothing to do with any actions that I may or might not take night 2).
I don't think that Lewwyn is innocent based on his previous vig hints then Doctor claim, but do lean innocent based on his being hit plus delivering a wolf, so I don't know what to think there.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 20th, 2014, 14:35)Azarius Wrote: What an interesting game day so far. Almost nothing that has happened makes me feel better about anyone.
, I agree
(January 20th, 2014, 14:35)Azarius Wrote:
(January 20th, 2014, 09:07)Rowain Wrote: We should not forget you at all. You were one of those who tried a lastminute push to save Azza and get Qg lynched and that at a rather late hour.
But for the moment I would like to push Azarius a bit.
Any particular reason why, or is noone who suspects me going to bother with one of those this game?
Yeah Rowain, I meant to ask about this too. Both why you want to push Azarius, and why you think an unjustified vote would achieve that when nobody seems to suspect him.
(January 20th, 2014, 04:45)Lewwyn Wrote:
(January 20th, 2014, 04:36)novice Wrote:
(January 20th, 2014, 04:02)Lewwyn Wrote: You say you have so many good moves to choose from and you choose MJW?
(January 20th, 2014, 14:46)Merovech Wrote: As for my attachment to catwalk: well, it obviously was t tha strong be guard I never ovted for him, but lets find what I thougt was scummy. I'm still on my phone, btw. Well, post 226 is a good example; I hate the line "lets not lynch people for investigating" even if his actual argument was being stretched. I dont even love his Old Harry argument, nevermind if Q took liberties wih it.
*was not that strong because I never voted for him.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 20th, 2014, 12:26)Serdoa Wrote: WW17 is more than a year ago, I learned some stuff since then AND most importantly Rowain, we had a 4-4-5 vote count 5 minutes before the day was over. "Slightly" different situation to what we had here I'd say. Maybe even so much difference that in fact it's such a special situation that happened in WW17 that it should not be taken for comparison.
You were already top then so I doubt there is much room for improvement. A 4-4-5 is of course so fantastic different to a 3-3-4 .
You'll probably lynch me over that, but was it 3-3-4 when I voted? I really have no clue tbh, I don't have that tool from novice installed so I had to go by vote-counts that were not to be trusted. I mean I know I won't get you to believe me anyway, but as I said a few times now, I voted him because I had him suspected previously and wanted to move away from a clearly useless vote. And Azza was not the place I wanted to be because I believed him to be a villager.
Quote:So far noone has said all 3 are scum. Do you believe that all 3 are innocent villagers?
No, no one said it, hence my "implicitly". As for your other question: I don't know. If I tell you I don't believe it, you ask me whom I suspect of the other 2. But I don't suspect them, because I didn't even look into them. I also don't believe they are innocent, for the same reason. I don't know. What I know is that not all 3 of us are scum because I am not.
Quote:No you just jumped on the moving wagon against whom you have by chance voiced suspicion previously. Not planned just usual good wolfplay - voice suspicion on likely targets Qg, MJW, Ryan, catwalk they are all easy and nice targets for scum and give a chance to jump on a waggon with out raising eyebrows.
Voicing suspicion against MJW worked great for me in a former game and great now for Azza. Usual good wolfplay suddenly gone bad
But seriously, yes, you can believe all my actions to be scum-play and as I did vote late and not against the scum I can't fault you much for that tbh. Either you believe what I told you or you don't. Sorry Rowain, but that's how it is. There is nothing more I can tell you. If you believe I'm your best bet for a lynch, vote me today. But if you have no other questions for me besides the one I answered, maybe start investigating other options till then.
Quote:Then show us and push for a scumlynch instead
New humble Serdoa has to point out that he is good at pushing but not necessarily the right target. But I'll try my best nonetheless. Maybe at some point someone will even react to that instead of only my defence posts.
(January 20th, 2014, 14:35)Azarius Wrote: Old Harry's defense post makes him look even worse than he did. Novice still feels off like he did day one. Neither spacetyrantxenu or sunrise has added much more today. Serdoa felt off day one but I wanted to give him time because I can usually tell his villager self fairly accurately, and I'm just not feeling it. There isn't any specific "Aha!" thing, it's more lack of expected town tells. I had the same feeling in the anonymous game and didn't act on it until it was far too late.
Mind telling me who you are? I really can't remember that we played that many games together. If zak would make such a statement I would accept it, but someone who played maybe 2 or 3 games with me, at least 1 of me being scum, states that I'm not townish enough? And to top that you list reasons for other votes (I'll point out especially your description of Old Harry) and yet you vote me? And that with a flimsy reason at best? No, not even a reason, more a non-reason. Not because I did something scummy in your eyes, but because I didn't enough townish stuff? I mean heck, even if you are scum, you could put more work into that, it is not like I made it hard for you...
Azarius
Quote:To Rowain for voting him:
Any particular reason why, or is noone who suspects me going to bother with one of those this game?
Asks the one who votes me for not giving town-tells
Quote:Something that I literally just realized as I was writing the above paragraph: Spacetyrantxenu's assumption that a villager can only win if alive at the end game is really strange, for a few reasons. 1) It goes counter to the village PM. Now, Brick posted that PM so everyone has access to it, but I find it pretty easy to believe that someone would just skim Brick's opening posts or skip the PM copy. I find it much harder to believe that someone would skim their own, personal PM. Now, a wolf PM would say a similar thing, but an SK or survivor PM sure wouldn't. 2). How many games have some teammates win and others lose? Space's argument seems bad even without knowin the game. There is a difference between being a noob and pretending not to understand what is going on. Spacetyrantxenu obviously isn't a stranger to games in general; he's here, after all.
I don't find his move paticularly strange tbh. Not winning unless one is still alive is a feature of mafia/WW on other sites or in some party versions. I don't find it massively suprising that that part of a pm would be skimmed either (although that is the most convincing part of this post for me).
However I do find certain aspects of this post odd. Firstly though it may be to do with a phone post but if you check post 6 in the thread then both a sample villager and a sample wolf post is listed but you seem to have missed it by the way you phrase the underlined part. Secondly, and more importantly, at the end you say: "There is a difference between being a noob and pretending not to understand what is going on." Which seems to run contrary to the rest of your post. This bit implies that you believe he is a anti-town player who is exploiting his status as a noob, but the rest of your post implies that you believe he is an anti-town player who made a noobish mistake (namely, being unaware of the base rules and inadvertantly revealing that he has not recieved a villager pm). So which is it?
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(January 20th, 2014, 14:53)Merovech Wrote: Furthermore, I have a slight hunch that Old Harry is innocent. I'd put the odds as about 55-45 multiplied by the village to scum ratio. At least, I'll have a better handle on it after night 2 (and no, that has nothing to do with any actions that I may or might not take night 2).
I don't think that Lewwyn is innocent based on his previous vig hints then Doctor claim, but do lean innocent based on his being hit plus delivering a wolf, so I don't know what to think there.
If you yourself won't be able to do anything directly, what exactly are you thinking will happen the next night for you to have a better handle on Old Harry's guilt or innocence?
Ok, so lets make a short rundown on a few people: Upfront: This are simply my thoughts, not cross-checked if for example it makes sense to suspect novice and Q or if there was some interaction that makes it rather unlikely that both are scum. I probably list more people than scum are left anyhow, so just take it for what it is: A list of impressions I had for various players
Q: I don't like how he jumped to the defense of Lewwyn several times now. Maybe he really is certain that Lewwyn is a villager without doubt and therefore wants to save him, but given Lewwyns own reactions and lieing I think at least some doubt would suit anyone and in fact most have voiced at least disbelief and revoked Lewwyns near certain villager status.
novice: I still wait for him to do anything else than quote what someone else wrote and emphasize it. That's very easy play for a wolf and not at all what I expect.
Lewwyn: I agree with the "lynch him later if at all". But I also would like an explanation why he claimed both doctor and vig. Makes trusting him hard and I already voiced before that happened a (tinfoil) theory how he still could be a wolf. Nonetheless there are better lynch-targets certainly left.
Azarius: I pointed out how I didn't like his last post, voting for me on a flimsy reason. I haven't checked his other posts though, have to do that after this post.
zakalwe: I haven't seen anything from him really. I am missing him and ask myself if he is simply short on time or learned to keep quiet as scum. And I think we had enough posts that would be right up his alley to point out and comment on (small but important details, which others pointed out sooner or later, but he normally is very quick and very good at that so I'd expect him to be first at least on some of them).
Rowain: Most likely village. He does pressure me but doesn't vote me. As he said I'm not his number one suspect (or was not at the start of this day at least). I believe him, I think as wolf he would have either jumped on me or pushed someone else more because he likes to control what happens imo.
Jowy: Tries to aggravate people but he lashes out in so many directions that I have a hard time seeing him as scum. You don't win by playing like that imo.
To clarify at Q, I didn't know that about some Mafia/WA games; I am guilty of skimming Brick's posts myself; I didn't use his posts for reference on the village PM, I used my village PM; and I think that SpaceTyrantXenu is very noobish and such led to a mistake but was also delibrately playing up his noobishness.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
OMGUS = Oh my god you suck? I'm not good at this abbreviations I'm sorry. But if that's right, no I didn't say you suck. Just that I don't believe that you and I have played enough with each other that you should vote for me based on "not having seen the expected town tells". Especially on D2 with no night-kills in a 20 player game and me defending mostly on D2. That's a lazy vote and the post I quoted above is just as lazy. Imo you just searched an easy target to drop your vote and because you don't know me good enough you didn't realize that I am not that target. Do it like Rowain and I believe you are village that just doesn't want to make it easy for a potential scum. Do it like you did and I sure will suspect you heavily.
, I agree
.
