Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[Roland]

And is this idea so far fetched? As you said we have not a lot to go on so this would be as valid as most reasons I see brought against Selrahc.

But as you might have noted it was a bait to get a response from you which I got - even an interesting one.

Ok. Fair enough, I guess. I think it's a piss-poor excuse for "evidence", frankly, but I suppose I have to play devil's advocate and consider it on its merits. It's almost too meta for my taste, but I guess it's not so far fetched as to be out of the question. Call it a knee-jerk reaction.

As for baiting me, I actually was wondering. It looked like an obvious bait, but I can never quite tell with you. :neenernee I hope you found my response enlightening, I guess? At least it brought discussion, right? That is what I hope to see, so I can't exactly criticize you for that much.

I'm not going to rise to your bait and try to lynch you in response, as scooter is worried about, because I have no basis for it that would stand on its own. It'd be a waste of my time, and the Village's - and that would make me a very big hypocrite, to boot! Besides, I'm not convinced you're a 'Wolf any more than I am scooter is - I just think your behavior is way too much like the last game for me to let it slide without noticing, but as I've said that's too meta for me to rely on as my sole "evidence" against you. Besides, if you're fishing attempt got a response out of me, maybe you can use that to get a response out of someone else. That would make you quite useful, now wouldn't it?

[Roland]

Looks like I'm the only one left shaking Mardoc's tree (if you know what I mean).

So... looking at the currently leading candidates, it seems like they were all "seeded" some time ago. I wonder what happened to everybody's suspicions against fire&ice? Didn't he have a bunch of votes against him at some point yesterday?

I believe he did, but what I'm struggling to remember is precisely why. Do you have any idea? For that matter, do you have any thoughts of your own as to why he's suspicious? For me, it's simply that he hasn't added much - but that can be said of numerous people, so I'm not about to start pointing fingers based on that! I'm glad you brought his name up, though, because I was wondering why he didn't find his way back onto the (currently very long) list of lynch candidates. I just forgot to pose the question in my post about who I suspect - I forgot all about him, actually. Maybe that's why no one's voted for him?

[Selrahc]

I think a lot of the arguments about me are now just assuming I am a wolf, and thus what I do is wolfish.
I don't think there is much point engaging with those arguments. It's all gotten into some rather ephemeral stuff about how much "content" I was posting. I maintain that my vote for MJW was perfectly well explained and reasonable, and I've already said that part of the reason behind the "meta" posts was to try and entice the wolves into wasting a night kill on me.

I think that is basically all I need to say for the defence. I'll leave it there for now... unless someone is going to say something drastically new.

Of the arguments presented today, I think Mardoc's are very optimistic but I'd like to investigate them further by voting for Novice. I also think a mayor wolf could work quite well. If I'd been just a regular wolf I would have continued the mayor campaign in WW2. I only tried to distance myself from it because I'd been made the the devil. Novice could easily be any wolf except the voider.

I'm not going to give a general list of suspects. I don't really have a good one yet. It's day 2. I'm not liking the general push to lynch me, but I can't really say if it is wolfy yet.

[fire&ice]

His day one posts

The herbalist looked up from working on yet another blend, this stuff was getting really strong now, and he was sure it was going to become really popular with the villagers.

Deciding he needed air before he passed out again, he reflected on the villages need for a new mayor, and you know who was always saying really deep profound stuff, it was that Fire & Ice, he was one smart cookie. hmm, cookies

Just crossing the street to get some snacks he saw a large creature covered in wolf fur, who seemed oddly out of place in civilised society. Deciding he looked very suspicious, he ran off to warn the others about Meiz

wait your calling me smart and did a roleplay vote hm.

I am not sure it's that people don't want to lynch him, its that they seem to want it to be a close thing rather than a run away

been post and reposted half a million times come up with original material wattson.

In actual fact I think Lewwyn is acting differently to WW2

You mean he will vote to lynch wolves? :neenernee

ya so much content.

Surely WW2 proved you really don't want to be a WW Mayor (although its harder for the Seer to reveal the truth now I guess).

err what no content still

The herbalist ran round trying to convince everybody that [strike]Meiz[/strike] looked suspicious and wolf like, but nobody seemed to listen, and alot started to make gestures of smoking as he ran around, some even turned and accused him of being a wolf!

Glancing over at Meiz he noticed the man wink briefly towards a group, and shortly after he was sure he saw MJW nod and look in his direction. It was clear the two of them were working together and were going to eat the herbalist!

Deciding one wolf was as good as the other, he joined in with the others chanting for the Inquisitor to hang, after all they had no trouble with werewolves until he came

I was voting MJW at this point I know I am a villager and he is following who I am voting for.

My initial votes were based purely on the villagers roles. Since nobody seems interested in Meiz, it makes sense to switch my vote to Lewwyn or MJW if I want it to be effective, and some of MJW's suggestions (ie kill the best villagers) just seem crazy to me

Or to follow me which you have still been doing.

If it helps I can promise to keep the target painted on you in my roleplay for the whole game

great roleplay agreements.

As an obvious new player the line of thought suits me clearly, but given the general opinion seems to be that day 1 is pretty random, you need some sort of arbitary rules to guide your vote.

I used the RP roles people were given. It seems just as reasonable initally to base it off game experience (is there an argument that an experienced wolf is likely to be better than an inexperienced one?) or some slight from a civ game.

hm saving the new players to last. Wait your a new player

As Uberfish has mentioned, i don't agree with this logic at all.

Non agreeing with logic on day one sounds good. Wait hes following somone again.

Just a quick comment on PB's activity, he does seem to have dropped off recently (hence his sponsor a centaur scheme in FFHPBEM1). So I guess that both means his posting less than we expect is not that suspicious, but also he won't be as active a villager as we would like.

Thats my take anyway.

Suporting a suspected wolf who still has only 9 posts has he even shown up for day 2 yet?

I meant to ask, various people have commented on how X has posted the most, or Y the least. is there an easy way to see how much everybody has posted in a given thread, or are people just going through and counting?

Ok, thanks for that it should help. Seems I am lower down the list than I thought I was, better get a few more posts in of such high quality as this one in order to avoid suspicion!

Sareln, can you please strikethrough the players name in the 1st post when they are dead? It should make keeping track of who is left a bit easier

Dear god that was unlucky, not sure where to go from here.

Was going to vote for anybody who targetted Bob yesterday, but there doesn't seem to be anybody. Will think about it overnight

gee thinking over night. ofc no one voted for bob thats why he was a good choice. I don't remember anyone targeting him.

Jkaen looked on as the inquisitor failed to transform into the werewolf he had expected. Confusion spread across as face as he realised he must have misread the signal. Maybe MJW's nod had been to himself as he decided he had noticed a werewolf, and he had glanced in the herbalists direction as a request for some support.

Cursing himself for being foolish, he resolved to honour the man's memory and lynch the werewolf they both clearly suspected, and so he tried once again to point out the barbarian Meiz, wearing all the furs, but accidently pointed at the tailor Mr Nice Guy who was carrying a sack full off them

Ya roleplay and a vote. Wait thats my vote again

...right, caught up now, and I envoke the Lewwyn defense (I was asleep). If it helps people work out hidden motives I am in Cairo (GMT+2)

Now the problem with me posting in depth discussions is that most of the back and forth seems to go on when I am in bed, hence comments such as:

"I would expect the void wolf to target the werewolf target each night, so the baner should protect somebody else"

"It's pretty unlikely that the wolves would all gang up on day 2 to vote for a single person"

have already been made by others.

I guess the next logical thing is to try and rip Irgy's approach to me being a wolf apart?

Hypothesis 1: The wolves will have spread there votes out evenly across targets
Response: I see no reason for this, from what we know about WW2, the wolves voted independently of each other. I guess logic says with so many on MJW there is a good chance of one being a wolf, but you could just as well takent he suspicous Cull run votes to select your wolf list from. So I will consider this arbitary

Hypothesis 2: A wolf would hide in the middle group
Response: I can see some logic in this, but bear in mind the way you chose the 3 groups was fairly arbitary, 1 more post from Selrahc for example would place him in that group with me too. But I guess this part his minor weight

Hypothesis 3: Of Serdoa or Jkaen it makes sense to vote Jkaen.
Response: The reason you give for this is you know more about his personality.... care to enlighten us what this means, and how it makes him less wolf like than me? again fairly arbitary.


So in resolution, I am willing to concede there is a reasonable chance that somebody in the list Meiz, Sareln, fire&ice, uberfish, Serdoa, Mardoc, Jkaen,
Bruindane, Sandover. is a Wolf

Hidding in the middle of the group. Granted I am not the middle of the group you certianly are following my lead like a pack horse.

You do seem to have a suspiciously good knowledge of what the wolves are doing

(ok so I forgot to edit the middle number of posts list)

Tied to kill GM

That was your middle group (including narrator!)

brings himself back into suspision yep he did it folks he did do it.

I added some comments for each post he had earlier if people want to check it out. Most of them are heard it a million times befora already. Wait you did what I did. Hi, roleplay, also where is the content brother. *rejects the brofist*

Mostly I thought he was a werewolf because he was hiding behind other peoples ideas and he was voting with me the entire time.

I know I am a normal villager Too stupid to be anything else rember.

If he was a villager also why would he be doing what I am doing I mean villagers should be striking their own paths and finding suspects and facts I am okay with little content. Prefer more *Mr. Nice guy get back here*
however he is following my lead. Thus I believed him to be a werewolf.

This is his posts after i made the initial post.

As the fingers started pointing towards the tailor [strike]MNG[/strike] for being suspiciously quiet all this time, Jkaen heard the Vinter declare that he had a cunning theory, that he would be happy to explain if people would just help tie down Pocketbeetle so he couldn't run away as it was told.

Interested to hear more theories, the herbalist helped secure the stablehand before turning back to Rowain with a questioning look

In a comparision on how quite the two of them are

Pocketbeetle < MNG

Thus for quite complains should have stayed on MNG

Wait, so you have not read the thread, but lately I sound like a wolf?

I look forward to the next set of wild speculation against me!

I had the post all written out last night before I went to bed but the forum failed to post it. Also I was litteraly posting as I ran out of the door so I did not have time to rewrite my post.

Oh, I thought I should add. If fire and ice does post his reasoning 8 hours from his last post, that will be 9PM for me. Its my weekend (working week is Sun-Thu) so I will be out drinking. Hence will probably not respond for at least 12 hours after the allegations.

Sorry my time zone must not be in sinc with yours -3 or somwhere around there.

I think somebody (forget who) pointed that out already. In fairness, my early votes were just RP, didnt see the major one as being important enough to change, but then felt my lynch vote may as well actually count.

At the time I think it was something like MJW 5, Lewwyn 4, PB 3 or something similar. From that list I decided based that the confusion factor MJW was having that I would prefer him lynched out of those 3.

As for RP v Non-RP votes, I have tried to RP my voting, but didn't really think I could argue reasons or defense if I stayed RP all game.

Great so no votes from you were real ones whats up here.

Hmm, just re-read Rowains post asking for support on PB, and by first reading I thought it infered he would reveal his grand plan should people vote onto Pb before the lynch.

Now reading, it seems I may have misinterpreted that and he is asking us to lynch PB with no explanation why what so ever. I am a bit less comfortable about that.

Feel I should really point out that it also leaves me

Rowain,

Unless I have missed something you have not really explained why you want us to go for PB. Don't trust you enough to just start lynching on your say so I am afraid.

Classic misdirect.

Hope this got in on time Jkaen I would like to know why you were voting with me.

[zakalwe]

I believe he did, but what I'm struggling to remember is precisely why.

That was basically my point. It's a bit curious that nobody suspects fire&ice today, after his early surge of votes, so I figured it might be useful to see if there is any residual interest in lynching him. Though I guess I could be asking the same question about Lewwyn; he also had a number of votes at some point (including mine), but most of those also faded away.

[Roland]

That was basically my point. It's a bit curious that nobody suspects fire&ice today, after his early surge of votes, so I figured it might be useful to see if there is any residual interest in lynching him. Though I guess I could be asking the same question about Lewwyn; he also had a number of votes at some point (including mine), but most of those also faded away.

I think the biggest argument against fire&ice (at this point) is that, much like MJW, he can be a little hard to understand at times. Beyond that, I have no idea.

As for Selrahc, I'm not really feeling the 'Wolf in him, either. I certainly didn't agree with his decision to lynch MJW, even if I did agree with his reasoning behind it (does that make sense?), but I don't think that makes him a 'Wolf. He hasn't really brought any discussion to the table, true, but that's the case for lots of people, so I don't see how that makes him any more suspicious than, say Bruindane or Cull. It feels like a fishing attempt to me. I don't see enough evidence to hang him on, and I do feel uberfish's arguments against him are a tad weak. It seems like he's pegging him because he's a convenient target, and - again - trying to fish for a response. Neither party seemed satisfied with the other's response, so that kinda ended the discussion.

Frankly, I think we're all fishing for someone here. Not a very good position for the Village to be in. At least we still have time to look things over. I'm still more comfortable with who I feel is a Villager compared to who I might feel is a 'Wolf. Even that doesn't eliminate very many people, so I'm looking over the events of yesterday and trying to tie it into something. Honestly, I think one of the most suspicious things around is anybody who felt Bob was too obvious a Seer - which, ironically, only leads me to Irgy (are you laughing yet scooter?) - but even that's flimsy at best.

Honestly, the only inclination I have to lynch fire&ice is because of his hard-to-understand posts, and his initial vote to lynch himself. I can't decide if that was an attempt at throwing suspicion from himself very early, or just a bone-headed move on the part of a Villager. Either he really values himself so little (and, by extension, the Village itself) to want to waste a lynch vote on a Villager, or he is a 'Wolf and was trying to avoid suspicion as it was mounting on him. I'm honestly not sure which, but at this point he almost looks like the best target we have.

What does everyone else think about it?

[Irgy]

BTW, for people jumping onto verbal slips - it is very easy to write something badly formulated or just plain wrong when composing a rushed post, especially if english isn't your first language, and you can't quite make your sentences have a good sentence structure, if you know what I mean.

Hang on, hang on... Are you talking about me? I don't remember anyone else making a "slip up". My English and sentence structure are quite good thank you very much. I'm just a bit dyslexic sometimes - not the genuine disorder but the "mild version" that basically everyone has.

I believe he did, but what I'm struggling to remember is precisely why. Do you have any idea?

For extremely damning reasons, from what I recall:
* One roleplay random vote
* I voted him purely to raise another (non-MJW) candidate
* He voted for himself as a stunt
* Everyone lost interest and moved on


Well, sorry fire&ice, but the more I look at JKaen, the more he fits the profile of a new player, on the village, trying his best to learn the game (and doing well I think too btw). If he's a wolf, he's both a new player and a great wolf, and those are a less likely combination. I'll keep my eye on him, but I'm kind of over voting for him today. Sorry to dump my own suggestion just when someone finally climbs on-board, but there you have it.

So, where to go? I think Selrahc's frustration is inconclusive, but the best I've got for now. Plus he's a new candidate compared to day 1, which I believe to be good for meta reasons as I said in the night.

One question I'd love an answer to though: Why is novice the mayor? He had a huge support base, and I can't recall any reasons for it. I wasn't that sold on the second most voted either so I left myself with my effective-non-vote yesterday. It's suspicious, but frankly in what direction it's suspicious the jury is still out on for me.

[Jkaen]

So lets see, so far I have voted for:

Meiz - MJW (which I think I have explained why i switched)

MNG (lowest post count) - PB (Waiting for Rowains argument why, but thought I would help put pressur on)

From what you are saying two of those you had also voted for, so that makes me following you?

Irgy's suspicion of me I thought was stetching a bit, but I admit I could see where he was coming from. This is so left field I have no idea what you are thinking

[Jkaen]

Cross posted that with Irgy.

For the mayor vote. right or wrong i didnt see it as that important. hence why i didnt bother change my non effective vote. maybe that was wrong, but i really didnt look intot he mayor votes that closely at all

[Meiz]

I'm taking this game again a bit too seriously, but I couldn't get sleep and had to start my computer again and come post here. Truth is, I couldn't stop thinking about novice's post and vote, and paranoia hit me really bad. I'll quote the line that bugs me.

I'm also going with Meiz's suggestion of Selrahc

Yes, this ties me very much to Meiz, seeing of how we were accused by Mardoc of a conspiracy and all. No, wolves wouldn't be that obvious. Sometimes villagers just happen to agree. (Or a wolf and a villager, I don't know Meiz's status.)

First to get it out of the way, this was not originally my suggestion, but I thought uberfish's and Ichabolds notes for Sehlrac were good and I simply agreed with them. But what is interesting for me, is that novice really tied himself exclusively to me, as he also said (and almost underlined) himself. At least I read his post that he is quite sure of me being a villager (despite the last line). I was trying to think of a reason, why he sounded so sure, but I actually couldn't find anything . So the thought came to my mind... a wolf would have the knowledge that I'm a villager

So what does novice benefit from this, if he is a wolf? Well, unless someone finds some flaw in this logic, it sounds like a win/win situation. There is some suspicion for both of us from Mardoc's part already. If I would get lynched, people would look back and see novice defending a villager. Then again if novice gets lynched and he is a wolf, he at least drags me with him to the grave. I think it would be likely that people would see him as defending his packmate, and I would be likely hanged.

I then applied my "wolf-hunting method" for day 2 against him. Active, but posts mostly no-content? Check.

If novice is a wolf, he would have also knew that MJW is a villager. I said earlier that if MJW and Cull would both be villagers, it would benefit the wolves to get Cull killed. If you look at novices posts, you will find him talking of MJW's innocence (#36, #44) and generally defending him (#153, #178 ). I also found his post #311 for Lewwyn curious, "you should have let the bandwagon continue. If Cull is a wolf, we would have had 8 trusted villagers now". He later corrected his statement a bit less drastic, but that comment still sounded odd.

Novice switched his vote against Cull, and I honestly think he thought his vote would get Cull killed.

Novice also has quite a lot of posts regarding what Baner should do and who should the Baner protected. Add those with the "worst baner ever" comment, and I can see why people think it as Baner fishing attempts. I also suspect that now.

I'm taking a huge gamble here, but I suspect I might be onto something concrete here. Novice, if you are a villager, apologizes in advance

[strike]Sehlrac[/strike] novice