Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[fire&ice]

I guess I was hard to understand I knew I shouldn't have listened to that little voice inside my head.

My suspect list
Jkaen - I just got the fealing that he was following my lead. I understand new players following peoples lead for a day or so but, It was that he was following MY lead that made me suspicios. Also he was suporting serlahc's proposal to keep new players in the game.

I do have more people they are mainly based on gut fealings thus are prone to simple hatred and emotional rants.

[Jkaen]

I thought we just covered I only voted 50% the same as you?

Additionally I admitted my support of protecting new people was self serving.

I was happy to shrug of irgy's suspicion of me, but you pushing on me with no basis is starting to feel a bit odd

[Meiz]

I forgot to add this. Now I'm really off to bed again. Hopefully I'll get some sleep now...

[Roland]

I'm taking this game again a bit too seriously, but I couldn't get sleep and had to start my computer again and come post here. Truth is, I couldn't stop thinking about novice's post and vote, and paranoia hit me really bad. I'll quote the line that bugs me.

But what is interesting for me, is that novice really tied himself exclusively to me, as he also said (and almost underlined) himself. At least I read his post that he is quite sure of me being a villager (despite the last line). I was trying to think of a reason, why he sounded so sure, but I actually couldn't find anything .

I can't speak for novice, but I can say that thus far you've struck me as very much a Villager. Maybe he just feels the same way, and is willing to risk a gamble on tying himself to you in order to bring down someone he feels is a 'Wolf? After all, neither of you are unique in suspecting Selrahc (as we're now seeing), nor is novice unique in thinking you're a Villager. I'm inclined to feel the same about you, although as a general rule I don't try to tie myself to anyone - I'll openly defend or denounce anyone whom I feel strongly enough about. I go so far as to discuss or argue the merits of the case, even if I agree with the end result!

I don't see much of a case against Selrahc, except his comments about how having a 'Wolf as a Mayor would be great - feels entirely like trying to shake suspicion off himself and onto someone else, and novice appears to be the most convenient target.

So what does novice benefit from this, if he is a wolf? Well, unless someone finds some flaw in this logic, it sounds like a win/win situation. There is some suspicion for both of us from Mardoc's part already. If I would get lynched, people would look back and see novice defending a villager. Then again if novice gets lynched and he is a wolf, he at least drags me with him to the grave. I think it would be likely that people would see him as defending his packmate, and I would be likely hanged.

That is an interesting theory, in all honesty, but it's still predicated on the idea that the only reason novice would say such a thing is if he's a 'Wolf - which, in my opinion, is rather flimsy. I think it can equally be said that he's just a Villager who agrees with you. I mean, I don't agree with you on either novice or Selrahc, but that doesn't mean I don't think you're a Villager.

Also, I don't think a smart 'Wolf would be so bold as to blatantly tie himself with someone like that. If you want a perfect example, look at scooter from last game - he road Serdoa's coattails almost the entire game, but he did so at least fairly subtly. I mean, it was obvious to me, but he did almost achieve his goal - get Serdoa lynched to lessen suspicion against himself (I discussed this very scenario in private with people, ironically). He never directly drew attention to his following Serdoa, just crafted his posts around the same general point as Serdoa, even if he didn't always agree for the same reasons. In fact, I can't think of any 'Wolf from either game who directly tied their fate to someone on purpose, except as a last-ditch effort to avoid being lynched. It's a bold, and foolish move, in my opinion - high risk, high reward, but not exactly wise.

If novice is a wolf, he would have also knew that MJW is a villager. I said earlier that if MJW and Cull would both be villagers, it would benefit the wolves to get Cull killed. If you look at novices posts, you will find him talking of MJW's innocence (#36, #44) and generally defending him (#153, #178 ). I also found his post #311 for Lewwyn curious, "you should have let the bandwagon continue. If Cull is a wolf, we would have had 8 trusted villagers now". He later corrected his statement a bit less drastic, but that comment still sounded odd.

Novice switched his vote against Cull, and I honestly think he thought his vote would get Cull killed.

I don't see how defending MJW is so blatantly 'Wolfish that it can't be explained equally by being a Villager. This seems to be a common theme here. I openly stated I felt MJW was a Villager, too, and I didn't vote for him. Does that make me a 'Wolf? I took the position that MJW probably was a Villager, and thus we would be wasting our time lynching him (even though I wholeheartedly agreed he was a distraction, and provided excellent cover for the 'Wolves). Lots of people were fairly sure MJW was a 'Wolf, and yet he got lynched anyway - by people who felt he was innocent! Of those that felt MJW was innocent but didn't want to lynch him, we all seemed to fall back on Cull as the next best alternative (at least that's how I see it; I honestly don't know what anyone else was thinking, but that was my thought). I don't see either of us pushing for Cull to get lynched today, do you? Hell, I don't see anyone who originally voted for him as pushing to lynch him. So, again, what point are you trying to make here?

Novice also has quite a lot of posts regarding what Baner should do and who should the Baner protected. Add those with the "worst baner ever" comment, and I can see why people think it as Baner fishing attempts. I also suspect that now.

I'm taking a huge gamble here, but I suspect I might be onto something concrete here. Novice, if you are a villager, apologizes in advance

[strike]Sehlrac[/strike] novice

You know, anytime someone writes something like "The Seer should protect this person," or "The Baner should protect this person," I just instantly write that post off. It's pointless in and of itself, and to try and draw the conclusion that someone is a 'Wolf from such statements is equally pointless. At that rate, we might as well lynch Bruindane for posting that tombstone with Bob's name on it so quickly. I mean, it's just too damn suspicious, right?

Oh, and fire&ice:
I understood your overall point - you want to lynch JKaen. You feel he's riding your coattails and trying to blend in. I'll admit it's mildly suspicious on its own, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being - at least until tomorrow. Do you have anything more concrete to go on, or is that the crux of your argument? I'd prefer to lynch someone based upon multiple pieces of evidence, instead of just one - although that may be asking too much for Day 2. That's just my hope, anyway. It's not directed at you specifically.

[Bruindane]

Novice was nominated by Bobchillingworth.

[Jkaen]

Oh, I just realised I meant to add that the fool shouldn't reveal himself, even though the role is now meaningless. Initially I thought if they came out and we could match their behaviour to somebody who thought they were a seer it would be one less suspect. but then i realised that it would mean the wolves would know one less villager was the baner which is the only power role we still have to protect

[Bruindane]

You know, anytime someone writes something like "The Seer should protect this person," or "The Baner should protect this person," I just instantly write that post off. It's pointless in and of itself, and to try and draw the conclusion that someone is a 'Wolf from such statements is equally pointless. At that rate, we might as well lynch Bruindane for posting that tombstone with Bob's name on it so quickly. I mean, it's just too damn suspicious, right?

It's horrible to say "baner please protect Rowain" but the truth is that the wolves will do nothing but knock off trustworthy villagers. It's better to be suspected than to be openly trusted during the night, but I thought I'd use Lewwyn's I trust "Rowain," to add my own "I do too." We essentially gave him a death sentence.

[Jkaen]

To be honest if I was a wolf I would go for somebody who had not been mentioned at all either positively or negatively (ie bob)

[Roland]

Novice was nominated by Bobchillingworth.

Are you trying to make a point with this? I mean, honestly, as much as I enjoy your little pictorial quips, in this case it's just confusing more than humorous or witty. Care to elaborate?

It's horrible to say "baner please protect Rowain" but the truth is that the wolves will do nothing but knock off trustworthy villagers. It's better to be suspected than to be openly trusted during the night, but I thought I'd use Lewwyn's I trust "Rowain," to add my own "I do too." We essentially gave him a death sentence.

Actually, I think the 'Wolves generally ignore such requests as much as I do. I've yet to see a single request for protection on someone actually amount to a saved Villager. The 'Wolves may be inclined to eliminate trusted Villagers, but it's not so cut & dry as that - look at WW2. Lewwyn was a known Villager for quite some time, but he lived until the end because he lynched me (among other reasons, I'm sure). They even went after Sareln over him; despite how it was very much assumed Sareln was a Villager, he wasn't proven like Lewwyn, yet he died first.

I do agree with JKaen, though - the Fool should stay hidden, as even though he's almost useless, it does eliminate that person from being considered the Baner, thus, ever-so-slightly decreasing the odds of the Baner being found.

[Selrahc]

Just on the general baner discussion.
I'm thinking the baner should never protect themselves. With the void wolf in play, the wolves would be able to void and kill the baner in a single night, and with the seer gone they have no reason not to do that. Until the void wolf is lynched the baner is far better off protecting other people.