[PB61] Lurker Thread

[Tarkeel]

I'm almost tempted to say that the best solution is to reload to start of T99...

[Tarkeel]

Based on what Joshy said, I think we need a reload here.

Given how long time Jesse was logged in on T99, the reload needs to be either at the start of the turn, or Vanrober's logout/Jesse's login. I don't like forcing a turnorder on someone, but the fairest solution seems to be that Jesse takes the first half of the turn, and Joshy the second. This is consistent with Jesse logging in on T100 before Joshy played, and will allow Jesse to re-play the first strike.

That should leave the turnorder as Jesse > Joshy > Bellarch, which needs to be communicated to all the parties.

[Charriu]

I agree with you, but I would hear a few more opinions on the matter before I reload that far into the past.
Also are we sure there was no fighting or other dice rolls? Just want to make sure.

[civac2]

Joshy can prove he moved his settler first. By and large this wouldn't be the case and log out time would be th deciding factor. I'm not disagreeing but this whole settler race stuff is messy. We should update the rules for the next PB to have settler priority decided randomly. Less incentive for clock games too.

[Tarkeel]

Joshy can prove he moved his settler first. By and large this wouldn't be the case and log out time would be th deciding factor. I'm not disagreeing but this whole settler race stuff is messy. We should update the rules for the next PB to have settler priority decided randomly. Less incentive for  clock games too.

I completely agree that we should use cointoss to decide settler races; it also gives the parties more incentive to realize they're in one I think.

The main issue here is the war declaration though, which happened while Joshy was in the middle of playing his turn. There's really no way that could have gone properly.

[Tarkeel]

I agree with you, but I would hear a few more opinions on the matter before I reload that far into the past.
Also are we sure there was no fighting or other dice rolls? Just want to make sure.

There was fighting some fighting between Jesse and Joshy, but I don't think Bing or Rekenner fought, but we should check.

[Charriu]

Ok no fighting other than Jesse and Joshy. I'm not concerned that Bing knows a war declaration comes from rekenner, because this was obvious for him. But we should ensure that they go into the same turn order on T100.
I'm only on mobile, but can trigger the reload. Can you, Tarkeel, explain all we've talked about and decided to the players?

[Tarkeel]

I'm currently cooking dinner, but will try to write an explanation for them soon.

[naufragar]

I'm not disagreeing but this whole settler race stuff is messy.

It's really not. We're just again seeing someone who loses out under the current system want to change that system. No one has alleged any illegality, and the randomness of going first on a particular turn is no more random than a coin-flip. Mjmd and Bellarch flipped tails and now they want a different coin. The argument "We've always been playing in X time slot and then the other guy changed" is completely irrelevant if there wasn't a turn split established before, although more and more people have been making it.

The coin flip isn't a better system. It pushes the double-move turn a turn later. It depends on a managerial group that isn't always going to be tuned into the game. And it has no advantage over the current system besides feeling fairer.

Obviously, the above has nothing to do with the crazy war-split at hand. Just counterbalancing the current coin-enthusiasm.

[civac2]

They didn't lose out though. They ended the turn first which would be the normal indication that they played first. Joshy and the lurkers determined by forensic exermination that Joshy moved his settler first. This is neither reasonable in the average case nor it is clear that it should even matter.

It's perhaps fair to say that they played their turn concurrently which the rules do not cover. The second problem is that play time is not random, contrar to what you wrote. It can be manipulated like running out the clock two turns before settling and then playing a double move.