[Spoilers] Whosit is playing for second

[Whosit]

Well, this turn we got a situation that could lead to a Classic Whosit Meltdown:




Moments like this really make me hate the 1-unit per tile rule, and the inability to get past a unit like this. I'm really at a loss of what to do here, especially if Fet advances towards my Settler. I guess I'd have to backtrack and try to go around the other way? It would take me 11 turns to do that and would delay settling the city by, like, 5 turns. This is also why I was less than thrilled to have the Slinger as escort. Even if Fet moves his warrior out of the way, it's a big risk to try and walk past since a Slinger only has a 5 melee strength. I don't think he can one-shot me, even on flat ground, but I still don't like it.

It's really going to depend on what Japan does. He has no reason not to obstruct me (last place player vs 1st place). As long as he doesn't move directly west, I think I will try to move past. This just makes me very nervous, and this is where my lack of MP experience makes me unsure how to respond. It would not be a big deal if the terrain wasn't full of choke points.

Also, strangely, the game acts like we haven't met. I did not have the option to contact Japan this turn.

Edit: I just realized that it's because my Settler has extended vision and Fet's Warrior can't even see me. Odds are that he'll just move west because he's exploring. Bleh. I guess I should have risked going North in the first place.

Edit Edit: One possibility, though I'd really rather not do this cuz it would mess with ALL of my planning, but if I manage to get my settler one tile east, I could plant a city there and take control of the pass with my culture. Unfortunately, that would dramatically delay my expansion to the east, and delay the acquisition of the new luxuries that I need.




Meanwhile, down south, scout did spot a barbarian warrior and ran away. Greenline truly is hemmed in. I expect the diplomatic situation could become quite thorny in the near future.




The northern sea runs along here as well. I'm not sure where Japan's warrior came from. Maybe beyond the desert north of Bombay? This scout will head east just to scope it out and see how far it goes.




Lastly, drought up north. Doesn't affect me, but the drought WAS named after my city lol.

Edit: One more thought.... there's not technically a "no diplomacy" rule, right? I wonder if I can find some way to communicate with Fet and get him to let me pass. I'm willing to sell him Open Borders for a token 1 gold as a good will gesture.

[Whosit]

First thing's first.... As expected, Fet moved his warrior to the tile I didn't want him to lol.




So, for full disclosure to Lurkers in case this somehow runs afoul of a rule I was not aware of, this sign posts are set to be visible to Fet. I have never tried this in a MP game (at least, not for players who are not my allies). Fingers crossed that he can read them and follows my directions. To sweeten the pot:




If this works, then improving that second Honey will have been an amazing stroke of luck. Fingers crossed, I guess. The Builder who was going to follow is going to have to wait an extra turn for an escort of its own.




Got the boost for Archery, plus the bonus envoy for Venice. Now when I generate my own envoy naturally, I can become suzerain, which should be fun (and I get era score!).




Korea finished their capital's seowon, and get that big boost to science. They will probably be able to beat me to any military tech, so I'm going to have to play cautiously, and try to make up some of the science gap by founding new cities and growing my population as quickly as possible.




Lastly, signs of something in the east. City State, or Civilization? Actually... must be a city state since I do not see any loyalty warnings.

I wonder if it's isolated and I'll be first to meet, or not?

Score:
Korea got 4 empire points for building a unique district, and 4 Era Score for completing it.

Japan: Now that I can see Japan's ribbon numbers, this Warrior must be his ONLY military unit. Which makes me think, or at least hope, that he will accept my offer and let me pass. He probably doesn't want to risk losing it so far from home. This also helps me put some of his score in context: I think that he has 5 citizens and has built a district. Getting +2 science from internal routes. That accounts for 4.5 of Japan's science. So I'm going to bet he built a +2 Campus. Also, he earned one era score from meeting me.  

No score updates from Khmer or China.

[Whosit]

Well, things did not go as I had hoped. Fet rejected my deal and fortified his warrior in place. I'm now beginning the long process of backtracking the Settler and going around the other way. To avoid my Settler being blocked off again, I will send my warrior AND a slinger to escort. Japan has made an enemy today....

No hard feelings towards CMF the player, though. I'd probably have done the same thing in your position.




Met Hong Kong. Already knows Japan, and Korea somehow?? I found a La Venta warrior here, so either Hong Kong wandered a warrior all the way over to Korea, or I've made a bad assessment of their scouting ability. I'm hopeful I will find Japan's borders further east.....

Korea's capital grew to 4. They're now making twice the science I am (although I am making 3x the culture). I also believe that greenline built another slinger, bringing his forces to 2 warriors and 2 slingers. I'm slotting in a warrior at the capital after this Settler finishes. I want to keep pace with Korea's army, but for the time being, I don't want to surpass it and cause an arms race this early. Greenline is clearly a capable player and I expect he must be intent to attack me at some point in the near future, since they have nowhere else to go.

Japan got the God of the Open Sky pantheon. Makes sense.

Korea made one less gold than I was expecting this turn. Not sure what that could be about....

Ummmm, guess that's about it.

I'm bummed by this setback, but it's just a speedbump. It's like finding out my birthday was pushed back a week and I have to wait even longer to open my present (found my city). But as long as I get left alone for, say.... 20 some odd turns, I think I'll be able to make myself more secure.

[Whosit]

For the record, for when the game is over and other players read my thread, I was not aware that this was a no diplo game. I did look through the planning thread first and didn't see that stated (though perhaps I just missed it). If no diplo is the default setting for RB games, then I've just been gone so long I wasn't aware. So, sorry. Was an honest mistake.

Anyway....




Somehow Japan got an envoy here. I'm guessing it must have been a quest of some sort? I don't think anyone could have an envoy to spend at this point. Zanzibar, you slut.

Actually, do City States always provide the same quest for all players? I might have to test this out somehow. If it was still the "find a new continent quest" then that would make sense.




My scout really doesn't want to engage with the barbarian horse archer, but SOMEONE is in that direction (probably Japan) so we're gonna try to scoot around. Boy, it sure would be a shame if Japan is swarming with barbarians.




Speaking of swarming with Barbarians.... Slinger is trying to make it south in case that barb scout tries to penetrate further into Roman territory. I think my trade route could potentially be pillaged if the barb AI can see it.... That would be a big suck. Hopefully that scout just pisses off.

There's a wounded barb warrior up north that I think retreated into the fog. My Builder is gonna spend a charge on that wheat just to get the Irrigation boost. I don't want the Builder dillying around too much. At minimum, it just needs the one charge to connect Truffles at the eastern city when it finally gets to be founded.

Warrior is gonna wait for the Settler to come by, then the Warrior will escort the Settler and the Slinger will escort the Builder.

I am assuming that Fet is gonna turn his Warrior around. I guess it's possible he declares war to get into my territory but that seems like it would be a bad idea. He has spare turtles now.... I thought about offering a straight Honey for Turtles but I was still feeling salty. I should probably still offer it next turn. I don't think he'll take it, but who knows. Maybe as long as I don't send pinned messages. The longer I wait, the more likely it is that Japan trades to another civ. Even though I will burn down Japan and salt their fields one day, for now they are too far away to be treated like an enemy. I could definitely use the extra amenity right now.

Score:

Korea has 65.5 science invested in something. It could be Masonry, Bronze Working, or The Wheel. I'm assuming Korea already got the 3 barb kills that would boost Bronze Working, but I'm not sure. They definitely don't have the quarry boost for Masonry. It's possible that greenline is splitting research, but we'll probably see in a turn or two if another tech completes.

Oh, and Korea is getting 12 gpt because the Seowon costs 1 gpt. For some reason I thought the unique district didn't cost maintenance.

Japan is earning 3 faith per turn, and does not look to be in God King. Earning 9 gpt (5 from Palace, 2 from Zanzibar, and 2 from internal trade route). Only has 2 Era Score from meeting me and Korea, so no natural wonder. Going back through the numbers that I have, I think I definitely made a mistake thinking Japan build a campus. At 6.5 spt, and being reasonably certain that Japan has 5 pop right now.... 2.5 science from pop, 2 science from palace, and 2 science from trade route makes that add up.

So, going back into the game, I do see that Japan built a Holy Site. (How many religions are allowed in a game of this size? I still want one, but it's not the end of the world if I don't get one). It can only be +2 max since Japan did not get the 3 era score for a Splendid Holy Site. Ah. Again, I am a fool. Japan is still in God King, the Holy Site just costs 1 maintenance. OK, that explains everything.

Speaking of explaining everything, China earned 1 empire score, but I am not at all certain what it is. Could be a pop point, could be a monument.... I'm hitting the point where it's hard to say without knowing Krill's other stats, or knowing how much food China's cities have. Plus, Yongle can run those special city projects. I'm not sure when is considered a good time to run them vs putting production into other things, but that's something I have to remember.

Khmer also gained a point and right now I think that's their capital hitting size 5. I know they must have a ton of food. 

If we're looking purely at score, greenline and I are basically tied for first, TheArchduke is in the middle, and Krill and CMF are tied for last.

I'm very curious what greenline is producing in their cities.... I'm still wagering that S. Fair is finishing the monument.... Arirang probably has 12 food (+4 surplus), and 11 production. (Bombay has the same production despite being a size smaller, and it grows next turn!). Korea completed the seowon two turns ago, so will have 22 production invested in something. I guess if Korea has another power spike in a couple of turns, we know greenline is focusing on military.... I don't want to get ahead of myself, but definitely something I will need to keep a close eye on.

State Workforce will complete for me on Turn 43. Will swap into Agoge to get some units out, and will probably swap from Colonization to Urban Planning, even though the Settlers aren't quite done. It will be about 11-12 turns to get Political Philosophy and I won't be making more Settlers for a bit, and I'd rather not waste a policy card for like, 8 turns.

[Whosit]

OK, two turns came around before I had time to write.







There was a barb sitch but it was cleaned up. Slinger heading down was originally hoping trade routes move before barbs. But that Barb scout didn't even move, so Slinger is gonna try to chase it down.


 




Had sent CMF a straight luxury trade offer, wasn't sure if he'd accept or not (not wanting to trade with a leading player, for example). But fortunately he accepted! Bengal no longer has an unhappiness penalty (but it desperately needs a Granary soon). So Japan is forgiven.

For now.




Was a barb camp here with a 1 hp Spearman. Took it for +50 gold (and +2 Era score) , that'll really help. I will spend a few turns healing, though. That is unfortunate.

Things of note: Korea trained another Slinger. I also realized I had missed that S. Fair put down a Seowon on T37. Though I have no idea if greenline is working on Monument or Seowon.

I'm a little worried about more units coming out of Korea, but I don't think I need to be too concerned yet. Thinking on something a StarCraft 2 pro has said repeatedly: CAN HE EVEN KILL ME RIGHT NOW? And I think the answer is no. Not with a couple warriors and slingers. But I do think that I will tech towards archery until I am 1 turn away, just to be safe. I realized that in my strategic position, I don't need to BEAT Korea... I just need to outlast them.

Korea is constrained on land. Korea can get a big boost in science compared to me, but as I get more cities, I can outproduce them. My strategic goal is to just NOT DIE. And I think Archers do that better for me than Legions, at least in the short term. If Korea came at me with nothing but warriors and archers, I can spam out a bunch of my own and probably give more damage than I take.

Korea also just got 2 era score, but I'm not sure from what at the moment.

Korea got another civic, and some other civs got new techs, but I'm too busy to detective out what they were just now. I'll have to do it later.

[Whosit]

OK, doing a little sleuthing on the scores.

Japan:

Got 2 techs in 2 turns, so must have been splitting research.

About 47 research since the last tech learned on T34.

34.5 invested in very first tech. 45 invested in the next. 20 in the next, and then about 47. So rounding up, about 147 science generated so far.

My best guess: Teched Animal Husbandry, then teched Astrology even without discovering a natural wonder, then pottery, then split research between Writing and Mining (delaying for some purpose), and finished them one after the other.

Either CMF is trying to confuse people like me who are reading the scores, or he was waiting to at least place a Holy Site in his second city without raising the cost. Guess we'll see when I find that city.

The Khmer got a 50 cost tech. Surely that can't be Writing? They'd have to be unbelievably isolated for that to be the case. I'd put my money on un-boosted Irrigation just to get a luxury online. Other than that, I think Khmer Capital is size 5 and 2nd city is size 2.

I'm punting China off for another time lol

Korea, well, I know they got the Fertility Rights pantheon for the free settler and 10% pop growth. Makes sense given their position. S. Fair finished its Monument. Exactly on the turn I predicted! The Seowon then was just placed to lock in the cost. Wonder if greenline will build that next. I estimate about 6 turns.

Oh, with the gold from the Barb camp and feeling secure with me finishing the next civic, I spent ALL my gold on the tiles I need for the districts I want to put down in the next couple turns. Just in case costs would go up. I will swap into Agoge, so if I see Korean units coming at me, I'm confident I can mount a defense.

Also, governor title. I decided against normal convention that I will give Pingala +science instead of +culture. I already have a big culture lead over everyone else, but I think given my position next to Korea, I am better off shoring up my deficit in science than I am in just accelerating my lead in culture.

[Whosit]

I just realized that I've messed up my analysis of Japan. Somehow, don't know how I forgot, but Tokugawa's trade routes are +1 science and culture, not +2. I'll have to reexamine. Though.... that makes the culture not add up right.... It's 1 lower than it should be. So, Japan's culture equals what I'd expect with 5 total citizens (1 from palace, about 1.5 from citizens). Science is 2 points higher. Gold income is... possibly 10 base. I just noticed that Japan's gpt has gone down two turns in a row. Had two power bumps. One is by 20 points, so has to be a Warrior. The next one... 40? I've been pondering this and I'm absolutely clueless. Hopefully my scout can pop by his territory soon enough to get eyes on something. I'm nearly certain that Japan can't build anything besides warriors and slingers yet.

I'm still having a lot of trouble making sense of what I'm seeing out of China. It's entirely possible that Krill has been using Yongle's special projects, or that I'm just not quite as good at this as I'd like lol. China WAS first other civ to 3rd Civic, with Korea the turn after. Early monument? I'll get a better idea when I meet krill, hopefully.

Edit: Did some more digging on Korea's civic research to get a better idea of things, and I'd say it's been useful. My read is that after Code of Laws, it was Foreign Trade, then greenline researched Craftsmanship until it was one turn from completion, put a couple of turns into Early Empire, then finished Craftsmanship to swap out of God King at 25 faith. So NOW Korea is probably in Agoge. I'll just need to keep that in mind when calculating build times (and I'll need to remember the 10% to growth, sigh).

Speaking of, since I'm sure greenline is aware that slingers are rather poor on the offense, my hope is that this is just to make the requisite 3 slingers to upgrade into archers for the crossbowman boost. Fingers crossed, at least. As I have said many times, I'm keeping my eye on the military power.

[Whosit]

Hooo boy. What a turn for me to have to go to sleep on. I had hoped that, perhaps, CMF would take his exploring warrior and poke around Korean lands for a little bit. Well, that warrior showed up here:




Will he block me again? If he does, I'm going through him, damn the resource trade. It'll probably take me an extra 4-5 turns to kill or chase off Fet's warrior.




Lost a turn on Settler production, though expected. I know I need that boost to units.




2 turn warrior in the capital. This warrior can help push away Japan's warrior if things drag out that long. I don't mind delaying the Settler because.... well, we're not getting anywhere fast.


 




Promoting Pingala to Researcher is like getting my own seowon. The total science doesn't depict it, but I'm actually making a teeny-tiny bit more science than Korea now! I know it won't last long lol.




Since war is possible with Japan, I tried to get a peek with my Scout, but the barbarian horse archer was there. I think I'm gonna just have to heal up first and lose the scouting turns.

Just crossing my fingers very hard that Fet does not try to block me again. I honestly have no idea how he weighs inconveniencing an opponent against the luxury trade.

[Whosit]

Wow, I'm a dumbass. If Japan has sea turtles, they have Sailing.

[Whosit]

Chevalier Mal Fet, you goddamned troll.




So, you have chosen war.




At this point I'm expecting him to fortify in place. I think I am going to try to walk around the volcano with the Settler and Slinger. I think that would take about the same time compared to the time it would take to have the warrior and silinger switch spots and try to kill Japan's unit. I'm not going to get this city settled until after turn 50 now, ughhhh.

At the very least, I'm pretty sure that no one else has built another Settler yet, and the one coming out of Bengal is going to head west and should not encounter any problems. I've placed all my districts down to lock in costs. Warrior pops out of Bombay next turn, then will finish Settler, then Government Plaza, then Ancestral Hall, then Commercial Hub.

Bengal is finishing Settler, then Warrior, then Builder to go and do chops at  Bombay for the Ancestral Hall.

I guess the ONLY silver lining here is that my eastern cities are likely to end up settling AFTER Ancestral Hall is finished lol.

Oddly, the UI still shows the trade deal.




I'm assuming this must update before the turn rolls.




I sent an offer of friendship to Korea that I absolutely expect greenline to reject, but hey, worth a shot. Interestingly, it's showing Korea knows an unmet civ.

1) Korea has not met Japan? I guess Chev's desire to keep obstructing my settlement meant he never made contact. I believe that Korea will still know that I am at war with Japan due to the way that gossip works in the game.

2) Korea obviously has a unit out on the map somewhere. I wonder which way they went?




Someone got to a Classical tech before me, and it doesn't seem like it's Korea or Japan. Interesting.... And I shame. I was hoping for the extra 1 era score from being first to.




Japan built a pasture here. The first one, evident by Japan's culture going up 1 point. Scout is going to heal up (unfortunately it'll take like 6 turns or something) but then I will see if I have a shot at pillaging that pasture, or whatever else I can find.

Over the last few turns, Japan's power has gone from 19 to 40 to 77 to 69 (nice) to 37. AFAIK, power only updates at turn roll, so I don't think that this updated to reflect the damage my Warrior just did. I'm still not sure what the jump from 40 to 77 was. 19 to 40 had to be a new Warrior. But then 40 to 77 in one turn... two warriors and one was injured? but that would mean a 1 turn warrior. It... could be that Japan found a meteor and got a free heavy chariot (28 power) and built a slinger (15) same turn, while the new warrior at home took some damage (-6)? Then next turn an 8 point drop.... then a 32 point drop.

Very puzzling to me with the limited info at my disposal. I know that Barbs are getting into Japan's home territory, so maybe Chev is taking heavy losses against barbs? Hopefully some of his units actually died, which would make my scout's infiltration in a few turns a bit more likely to succeed.

So how do I feel about my strategic position? Pretty good, though it's not ideal.

Even if Korea declared war on me next turn, by the time they got a unit up to Bengal, the new warrior would finish and I could probably hold out long enough to reinforce the city. As for Japan, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that they have any more units near my territory, so all I have to do is destroy or drive off this obnoxious warrior and I should be golden.

Korea just spent 180 gold, and gained a new tech. My tracking says that Korea has earned 116 science since their last tech, and the tech screen still lists them as in the ancient era (I am in classical for getting Currency), so my best guess is that they are splitting research to hide techs? We'll see if they get another tech next turn.

Era has 10-17 turns left and I still need 10 more era score to get a GA. I think that is very unlikely. I am not going to get an envoy in time to gain Venice before the era rolls, and without huts on the map, my options for gaining 10 more points this era is limited. Only consolation is that no one else will be in GA (and some may be in dark age, though that hardly matters at this stage of the game).