SPOILER - PBEM10 Serdoas Thread

[SleepingMoogle]

Captain Jack Sparrow makes appearances in every game, savvy?

[MWIN]

While retreating on island, why didn't you cut the road?

[Serdoa]

Simply not thought about it at the time.

[Serdoa]

Wow, is this a long time since I last wrote here anything. Shows how bad my situation is. And it did not get better with mb dropping out.

mackoti send me a PM, obviously he wants to keep the good relationsship. I was thinking about attacking him, especially when mb dropped out and our border is so lightly defended. It was either him or Tatan. And Tatan realised that and asked me about it. I told him openly that I am not sure if this game will go on and if so if I will attack him or mackoti.

Well, all that was only possible because of mb dropping out, because I would have not considered attacking him ever. But then I thought about how many PBEMs have already changed completely because of player changes and through that incurred diplo-changes. I don't want to do that in this game as well, I don't think it is fun. So, I will attack Tatan in some turns.

[Serdoa]

Ok, my situation is not as bad as I thought. But before I tell a little bit more about it, lets talk about the war. Tatan probably has already mentioned in his thread that I have decided to attack him. After our first war he did never ask for a NAP, so I used that to my advantage, researched like crazy to get to Knights and built around 12 of them. Unfortunately at that time the game died away (as it seems to happen with most of my games as soon as I decide to attack somebody...). That led to him asking me via email about whats going on and stuff and I had to finally tell him I would attack (or lie and I was not in the mood for that).

Now, had the game gone on normally we probably would have played several more turns before he would have got information about that. Which in turn would have given me the time to prepare the forces I wanted too. Instead I had to drop around 10 knights immediately when the game restarted again. That had several implications:

1. I have built more galleys then needed and could have instead built a knight or 2 more.

2. I have lost 5 Knights or so last interturn because he throw several forces on them including catapults.

3. I cannot stomp him.

Especially the second point hurt because if I had have more knights when he attacked his catapults wouldn't have damaged all of them and he would not have been able to kill them off. And all what was needed would have been 2 or 3 knights more I guess...

Well, anyway Tatan lost his first city to me and will probably lose another one next turn and the third one on the island in 2 turns after that. Overview screen:



Depends if he has more troops to bring in, but I don't think so. Reason is that I have the feeling that he tried to create an impressive navy in order to be able to kill invasion armies on their way. At least he has some Triremes and Caravels going around. And as he has the smallest power and needs garrison units as well, he cannot have that much left. At least that is what I think, I haven't gone trough the numbers.

Now, some turns ago I had only Galleys, so he did have a big advantage there. But since then I have researched every turn a tech till this turn which brought me Optics (a 1 turn research as well). So I should be good to go and I think I am still now researching pretty fast.

That leads to the overall picture. Demos from Turn 102 (we are at 103)



First in GNP and MfG, and 2nd in Pop. That is especially interesting as I have only 9 cities, one of it in resistance. As we see from Approval Rate and Life Expectancy I cannot grow my cities much more whereas all others still have some room. Anyway, I am leading in several categories even that I lost my first war and have the least land. I am not sure why that is to be honest - did all others fight that much and I didn't get knowledge about it? I know that Ad Hoc and TT and meatbalz all had a war or at least wanted to go to war. But either those wars did cost them quite a bit and didn't change much or I don't know. And what is going on with Cyneheard? I don't think he had any wars at all and he does have quite many cities.

Well, probably it is only a matter of time till they would all surpass me so it is a good thing I am at war with Tatan. Either I win that and will have enough to be competitive again or I will lose by so much that Tatan will overrun me.

[Serdoa]

So I retook my city (Yakkity Yak in the above screenshot). I have sent the following email to Tatan:

[COLOR="Red"]Hey Tatan,

as you will see, I have taken another one of your cities - or better retaken mine. You will also see more troops - and this is only the beginning. I do have nearly the same amount of troops you saw till now still waiting to get ferried over. Not all of them being Knights - I know that Catapults can be helpful sometimes .

On top of these bleak prospects I think you have a NAP on your other border which is running out in some turns. And let me guess, talks about going on with it didn't work out to well till now, hm? Think about what happens if this neighbour would attack you. It would be devastating, I am sure. No matter our past issues, I would rather see us finding a way for co-existence then having you eradicated. Therefore I offer you the following:

- NAP till T140; thats many turns of peace, enough time to hopefully build up trust so that we never have to fight again
- You will gift me Ehrlitan
- You will get missionaries and adopt your cities to Buddishm

I can imagine that the second point is pretty harsh for you, but understand that I do want to have a buffer zone between you and my core. I simply don't have enough trust in you at this point in time that I could accept anything less. Still, I think you have got enough land to be pretty competitive. And should your other neighbour come knocking in some turns, then I would have some spare troops I would be willing to gift you free of charge (except for that they have to be returned before our NAP expires).

Let me know if you see this as a feasible way to proceed.

Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]

I doubt that he accepts but if he does not, chances are he is losing the city anyway and will get crushed between Cyneheard and me. Well, if Cyneheard attacks. I cannot be sure about that, but if it looks that Tatan is losing the war and his forces are bound at my border, why should he not? Especially as he is building up military for quite some time now.

[Serdoa]

Well Tatan answered - and wrote something I was not expecting at all

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Really, you took YY? Man, all my combat sims are turning out to be dead wrong.

First off, I'm going to have to ask that you not share any of the rest of this email with anyone [other then the good ol' lurkers]. If you don't feel you can do that, don't read anything else.


The current offer, as it stands, is unacceptable to me. However, since you confirmed my suspicions about the blasted Carthaginians, I am willing to make a counter-offer:

-A NAP up to and through Turn 200 [or later; the lack of trust is mutual, and I will only make peace if we are not able to fight again until the game is effectively decided]
-Additionally, this NAP would ban the gifting of units to a third party for the purpose of proxy-warfare.

These are the base terms, and I am simply not willing to make peace without at least the above. As for concessions to you, I am willing to negotiate. I am NOT willing to give up Ehrlitan; it is my only good commerce city left that isn't culturally-crushed by Carthage. However, I propose the following:

-I will spread Buddhism to every single one of my cities [using my own missionaries], and continue to hold to Buddhism as my religion.
-I will provide you with a gift of 3 East Indiamen.
-I will provide you with a gift of 100 gold.

I am flexible on these exact terms, but I feel this is pretty fair. The way I see it, my chances of victory have been marginalized between your attack and my own mistakes, so my civilization is now in Total War Mode, and the only decision now is which neighbor I will be hurling all my resources at. If you give me a secure border, I will go ALL OUT on Cyneheard, and though he may defeat me in the end, it will be very bloody, especially when I get to Astronomy.

Let me know what you think.

-Tatan[/COLOR]

Now I am in a dilemma. On one hand I need Tatans land for expansion. On the other hand I would get someone to attack Cyneheard and I could fuel those attacks "a little bit".

Also I see two possibilities:

a) Tatan is gassed and has simply no more troops available
b) Tatan does have enough troops still but does not want to throw them away against me but instead attack Cyneheard who does have much more land and is a better target anyway

The biggest issue is that I really do not want to attack mackoti and so I would be stuck with 11 cities (and btw: where are all the happy resources?). Thats simply not enough against Cyneheards 15+. But I do need someone to attack him soon, simply to pillage his cottages. Otherwise I will lose my no. 1 research position (doesn't look like that right now because I am researching every turn a tech and sandbag it this way - something I learned from Krill...).

So, does anyone have some advice for me?

[Bobchillingworth]

I suppose you could attack someone other than Mack or Tatan. You probably couldn't get much use out of very distant colonies, but you could achieve city parity just by burning other people's.

[Serdoa]

NOW we are talking!

[Serdoa]

I send an email to Tatan.

[COLOR="Red"]Tatan,

Please consider the following confidential and only to be shared with your lurkers. If you don't feel like you can do that or if you have commitments to do otherwise please stop reading.

I have pondered over your email for some time now. I did take that time because I feel that this will be a turning point for the game. I do understand that you are open minded regarding our future as well. And our future it is what we have to talk about. It is obvious that you do not believe you still have a chance to win and looking at the facts

- that one of your neighbours is taking your cities and has the stronger military (whereas I am that neighbour)
- that you have another neighbour which intends to attack you soon (whereas my other neighbour is secretly allied with me)

I tend to agree to this assessment. On the other hand I feel like my chances to win are pretty good, given that on top of the above, I have the highest GNP and the highest MfG and 2nd highest Population. I am simply lacking room to expand. Now the normal course would be to take your land but I think we can find a better way. I offer you to win - together with me. Yes, what I mean is (kind of) vassalage. What would that include?

- Everlasting NAP till the end of the game
- Everlasting MDP till the end of the game
- You will spread the faith of Buddishm in all your cities
- Borders will be kept open forever
- Resources will be traded free of charge and the other one is always the preferred trade partner if he does not have this resource by his own
- Resources can't be requested if the other has only one of it, except for strategic resources
- Military assistance for campaigns against Cyneheard and others (that can mean either via using your troops or gifting them - if this makes the campaign easier manageable - as well as building those troops)
- All cities we conquer will be put under Russian control
- This does not apply to 2 cities (one of them being the one on that island between you and Cyneheard) we take from Cyneheard which will be put under your control in exchange for Ehrlitan (simply for cultural reasons because we do crush us in this area and that sucks)

You will be free to go for every possible victory condition as long as you stick to the above agreement. I myself intend to go for either Domination or Space. So you might even be able to pull of a culture win. Though I said I offer you to win with me and I mean it. If you wish I will happily agree ingame to a permanent alliance (as soon as available) and truly win together with you.

Think about it. In my opinion, that is pretty much what you offered already anyway only that instead of going into a worthless total war mode which in the end don't get you anywhere, you'll have a goal. Well and you won't be eradicated in 10 - 15 turns.

Kind regards,
Serdoa[/COLOR]

I wonder if the lurker thread will go crazy now