[SPOILERS] Cassiel of the ???

[Selrahc]

It's not really conversion. When Clan of Embers units are on a goblin fort, they can hire various goblin units with a "spell". Which is similar to the hire mercenary "spell" that you get access to with Guild of the Nine.

[Dantski]

More diplo, its tiring me out!

Bah, Dantski, sorry about that last email. It was indeed a bunch of confusing things.

Glad that you agreed on the non sharing thing.

So, here's my peace proposal (bear in mind that I cannot guarantee that the illians won't attack you, I'm only negotiating for myself):

Most important thing is that we would make an unbreakable alliance, which would last until the game is over (the only way the alliance could end earlier is if another player takes me out of the game, then you would be free to try to play however you'd like to).

Under this alliance, if we manage to win the game, I'll take the first place, while you'd be second. So, in a way, you would be like a vassal of mine (but not formally, since this is a game with the "no vassals" option checked).

You'd have to declare war on the players who I declare war on and on the ones that declare war on me. Again, much like a vassal. Ah, and, of course, you can't declare war on me.

Regarding land, you can capture all the cities in your peninsula (including the azer city next to its end). So that's a fair amount of land, I think. Any further land would need my approval to be taken, which is a discritionary decision for me to make.

You can keep all your resources and palace mana. I'd have first option in trading your spare resources, though. And you cannot trade strategic resources or mana with other players without my consent.

There's probably more things to add, but I think you get the general idea (and further clauses won't make any real impact on your decision, the relevant part is here). You'd be like a vassal, but a vassal with land and a lot of autonomy to choose which way to go. A vassal that, if the Master is eliminated, can still make an impact in the game and even win it (if I see that my doom is iminent, I'll probably give you everything I got, so that your chances would be higher).

Here are the reasons why I'm maing this deal and why I think it is fair:

I don't have enough forces to be sure that I can take all your cities. If I had, I would take them, since they aren't that far from my capital and it would be better for me. I'm being honest about it. It's not because I'm a good guy or something like that :P

That being said, I'm pretty sure I can take at least two cities from you and pillage all the rest. This would be only procrastinating your demise, since the illians will come eventually, and they have unlimited forces (strong summons). And he has no reason to spare you. Like I said, it would be better for me to have your land, but I'm not confident enough that I can take it all, that's why I'm making this proposal.

Of course I'm scared about the illian threat. They have a better leader than mine and their civ only weak point (no religions) is gone for this game. So, I'd like to have an ally to help me with the inevitable war against them. But, if this ally is not my vassal, I'd be giving up on a very strong position (having caught you with low defenses) without gaining nothing. So, if you are not willing to accept my terms, it's best for me (in my opinion, which can prove to be wrong) to go on with the war and take whatever spoils I can (even if the spoils are merely damaging your civ).

Even if you are not willing to accept this proposal now, it will probably last until the end of our war. So you can accept it later, after you see more results and everything. But, thre's something you have to keep in mind. I'll probably raze all the cities that I capture now, since I'm not sure I can hold them. And every city I raze is a city forever lost, since we are dealing with limited cities here. In a way, every soldier I kill is, for quite some time, a soldier gone, because of stasis. If you accept my offer now, you can probably handle the barb hordes (the real barbs) that will attack you in the next turn, which will include Orthus in a bit. Since I'm pretty sure you don't have nore then 6-7 warriors, each one of them is a big loss.

Just another warning: since I used my World Spell, the barb limit counter significantly decreased. That means that next turns will probably mean an increase in the barb activity and numbers.

I think I'm being pretty fair with this deal, since you'll be able to keep playing your game just like before all this happened. I think the game can keep on being fun for you under these clauses and that's one of my concerns.

Well, hope that I could make myself clear and that we can agree on the fairness of this deal. I'd be willing to negotiate further, but the I'm not likely to accept a deal that doesn't involve vassalage.

That would be all for now.

Regards,

Ichabod

Hi Ichabod

Unbreakable alliance - fine
Simultaneous war declarations - fine
Land - fine, barbarians have ruined my scouting so my map knowledge doesn't extend to where the Azer city is. On the other hand is this negotiable? Rantine will get you a whole bunch of free cities and I can't build catapults, this hardly seems a necessary clause IMO

One thing I'd like to negotiate on is Clan assistance if the Illians come calling, while I do have a plan for dealing with PoW its still going to fail if I'm unlucky. Attacking the PoW stack and killing them is difficult, however making Ravus keep forces at home to protect from an unexpected offensive is one way to keep him on his toes. An extra 5 units, even warriors could help wreck his gameplan.

I'll try to avoid killing all your units this turn so you can reply



-Dantski

Hey Dantski,

Just to make sure that you understood that the alliance proposed is kind of like a vassalage one. If we win the game, I'm first, you are second.

You probably already got that, but I have to make sure.

If you agree with it, I'll move my troops out of your lands next turn and will start scouting nearby to inform you of possible barbarian threat (including Mokka or whatever is the name of the frostling hero). I'll also make a public announcement on the tech thread about it. I'll also say that I'll protect you from every threat, including the Illian one. I'm thinking of saving some of the troops that I converted now to gift you after any of us discover catography (not sure if that's possible).

Any other clauses can be discussed later, including the land thing. I have a lot of knowledge on the map, so, after I pass this info to you, it'll be easier to do it.

Hi Ich

Yes I did get your you 1st me 2nd idea.

Why would you make the public announcement though? I thought you wanted to keep this whole deal secret, telling both Ravus + Sciz of its existence will only make them ally against us.

Its also not possible to gift units just so you know.

-Dantski

Anyway long story short, I think we've got peace for me being his vassal. While he is trying to be nice and keep me in the game, I will state right now that I'm only going to honour these agreements as long as it suits me. Am I a bastard? Yes! But hey he put me in a corner and negotiated with a knife at my throat, that doesn't inspire loyalty. If Ich reads this after the game is over, sorry Ich but you should've just wiped me out

[uberfish]

Interesting diplo, thanks for posting!

[Bobchillingworth]

You're the Svarts- you can always justify a backstab by claiming roleplay privileges

[Dantski]

Yup yup thats the idea!

So with my intentions clear (in it for myself!) I now need to...

1. Prepare as well as I can for PoW. I can get Pact of the Nilhorn in time but I would be totally reliant on the 3 giants. Or I can go with my original plan to make as many sinister hunters as possible. I think I'd need 6+ minimum assuming he keeps Ice Elementals summoned at all times. I'm badly in need of mining (need crafting first) for mine production and less badly in need of Calendar and Bronze working so I can hook up some happiness resources

2. Have some explanation to the other players for why Ich + myself made peace. I didn't like the idea of Ichabod's to tell everyone in the thread the situation for a few reasons. One it could turn the game into a 2v2 as Sciz + Ravus wouldn't like the idea of 2 of their opponents working together, frankly a 2v2 is less fun than a 1v1v1v1. Secondly it would make me look even more of a untrustworthy jerk if I did backstab Ich later. Possibly telling them I'm making palace mana concessions and such will allay some of their suspicion


Sorry for a lack of screenshots, there were 4-5 things I'd like to be able to highlight from one screen but I hath not the editing skills to include anything so instead I chose to include nothing Even so I will promise now to post a minimum of 1 screenie when I next get my hands on the turn tomorrow.

[Dantski]

Also feels like I'm in a post war with Sciz, must.....spam I mean post more interesting things...... than ......him

Also thanks for the replies guys, its much more motivating to update a thread when people actually read it!

[Dantski]

Well I did promise a screenshot (what on earth was I thinking when I did that?)



Just a general view of where units are in the Forlorn Pass region. I've been thinking about what Ich said about Kalocly, while I can just stroll in and take it, I don't want to do so without 3 warriors in a position to defend it. The main issue here is that I'll have to split my barbarian defences 2 ways which is hardly ideal, on the plus side Kalocly would serve as good frontline city vs the Illians.

Seems like Ichabod + me are done with diplo for now and he's going to back his troops off but remain at war for a while to fool the other players or something

3 turns until Orthus spawns, 9 till stasis ends

[Ichabod]

Anyway long story short, I think we've got peace for me being his vassal. While he is trying to be nice and keep me in the game, I will state right now that I'm only going to honour these agreements as long as it suits me. Am I a bastard? Yes! But hey he put me in a corner and negotiated with a knife at my throat, that doesn't inspire loyalty. If Ich reads this after the game is over, sorry Ich but you should've just wiped me out

That's a nice peace of info to have in mind for the next games!

I'm really looking forward to play the next one!