[SPOILERS] PB1- Mardoc buys a can of paint for Thoth and Ellimist

[darrelljs]

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Darrell

[Mardoc]

Glad we're keeping you amused, darrell .

Still no pick out of the DaveV/kyan/plako bunch, so I suppose it's time to start working our way through a strategy for ourselves. I figure the logical place to start is actually a bit backwards - we want to figure out what we *don't* want to do; after that it's just a question of priorities.

So, what can we safely skip, from the tech tree? Well..first thing to cut is Arcane, beyond KotE and maaayybe Divination, if we want to spend hammers to get beakers. Why? Well, because others can do it better.

I'd also cut the mounted line, beyond HBR itself; Clan can't do it, we can almost keep up with Haste and Spiritual Priests and Monks anyway, and yet again, others can do it better.

What do we still need? Recon, certainly, up to at least Hawks and Assassins. Metal - Vamps and Ogres are both handy and boosted, plus of course Rantine would be worth a Shrine, if nothing else. Probably Feudalism, Vamps are just that good (and of course all the prereqs). Religions - AV, Kilmorph, possibly more. Order and/or Empy would work well too, especially if we go for Druids. And of course an early Priesthood enables Monks, in addition to whatever else we get.

Further down the religious path, I note that Fanaticism has an attraction: both Corlindale and Losha Vales are here. Uh...what else is at Fanaticism? Hard to justify merely for two heroes...even if it's an Archmage and an Immortal Vampire. Last time I went for this tech, it was for Stygians, but they've moved. And Basium isn't an option here either

[Mattimeo]

Dwarven Druids would be nice, but Priests that upgrade to Druids get access to level 3 spells. 12 mini-Chalids anyone? :hat:

How does the limit on national units work when it comes to actually different units that fill the same 'slot'? Only ever really going to come up with the Elohim (actually, Tolerant), but aren't Druids and Dwarven Druids are technically seperate units, with Dwarven Druids replacing the more standard variety?
Would you be limited to 4, total, or would the fact that they're different units allow for 4 of each?

[Mardoc]

Beats me! It's worth a test, anyway.

I know that it'll be possible for each of us to have a complement of 4 druids, 4 paladins, and 4 eidolons, simultaneously; Ellimist proved that in PBEM18 with Bob.

Ah...Thoth? Is Crush really not something you want? I mean, it's probably not worth beelining druids and a dwarven neighbor simultaneously, but if we have the chance, let's take it.

[Selrahc]

Further down the religious path, I note that Fanaticism has an attraction: both Corlindale and Losha Vales are here. Uh...what else is at Fanaticism?

Eidolons+Paladins have been moved there from Righteousness/Malevolent Designs.

[Mardoc]

plako, DaveV, Kyan:

Here's the group I consider our primary threat. Kyan and plako have both demonstrated solid skill in BtS; Kyan's also been solid in every FFH game he's played, as best I can tell. DaveV is the 'weak' link, with solid FFH knowledge and decent micro skill - just not as much as his competitors. And they're all good posters, willing to explain themselves and learn; I expect them to work well as a team. None of them are perfect, of course, but I think they'll cover each others' gaps pretty well.

The main limit of this group is that I think they're thinking more BtS than FFH. This is exemplified by their picks.

Beeri (Fin, Ind) of Luchuirp
Keelyn (Cre, Sum) of Balseraphs
Auric (Cha, Arc) of Illians

...verrry interesting...

This is one of the more obvious gameplans - which still could work. Beeri builds Mud Golems and Golden Hammers to give them a rocket start, they tech to Sorcery, and use millions of Ice Elementals to kill us all. With a potential for a backup summon, if the situation calls for it. Gotta say, they've got synergy worked out pretty well here.

They'll be weakened by having no Expansive and no Philo; they ought to be slowed in expansion and eventual max tech pace. Mud Golems do not make up for not being able to boost their # of cities substantially. Arcane and Summoner both have no economic value, essentially, and Cha/Cre aren't exactly power traits themselves. No, Beeri will have to try to carry their economy on his own.

Obviously Arcane Lacuna will be crippling for them, while it lasts. There are some counters, too, although they're not super easy to come by - assassins will hit Puppets instead of Mages, for example. The main thing about summons, in my opinion, is that they depend entirely on getting to critical mass. So we need to have more units than they have summons, and we can crush them through the ice wall. Also, the bone wall, at least, won't work anymore, since puppets don't add to the summon cap. Honestly, we're in pretty decent shape to overcome their numbers, between Warrens and Governor's Manors (and vampire summons, for that matter).

This might very well be the reason I agree to tech Divination. We want Sun mana to make desert barriers to fight on, if at all possible. Granted that they can also use Hosts or Pit Beasts or etc, but Ice Elementals are nasty nasty. Slow is a bit scary, too, especially when it can be cast at such a distance with Puppets. Plus, of course, all the normal spells they can reach.

So how do we handle them? We've got to outdo them at economy. If we've got a solid army of Tier 3 units by the time they start to build mages, or better, slightly before, then we can crush them before seeing a million summons. Ideally, Team Reddit sees the threat too, and does that for us with Warcry, but we can't count on that.

Eidolons+Paladins have been moved there from Righteousness/Malevolent Designs.

Now that is a tempting target! Have to find Iron first, either by researching Iron Working or Arete + a lotta hammers. But 12 Eidolons and 12 Paladins starts to sound like a pretty good army; especially if we upgrade them from Vampires or Cultists. And - both Elohim and Calabim Pallys/Eidolons can be upgraded from Vamps Ah, that reminds me, I need to test if Elohim Vamps can Feast. And if upgraded vamps keep the ability to Feast, or just the XP gained beforehand.

As a final argument - the path to Fanaticism includes essentially things we wanted anyway: Priesthood, Code of Laws, Philosophy.

[Mardoc]

Now, to revisit the *important* question:

I'm running with Elf/Dwarf/Human as a stand in for civ names.

Alcohol theme: Dwarves Beers, Elves Wines, Humans Spirits.
Sciences theme: Dwarves Chemistry, Elves Biology, Humans Physics.
Animals theme: Dwarves Reptiles, Elves Birds, Humans Mammals.

You guys on board for one of these? Say, Clan Beers, Calabim Wines, and Elohim Spirits?

[darrelljs]

I think Dwarves/Spirits and Humans/Beer makes more sense .

How about types of stones, types of trees, types of __________?

Darrell

[Commodore]

Gentlemen: Here are your starts, or a rotation of them. Chose who goes in which:

[SIZE="7"]1:[/SIZE]


[SIZE="7"]2:[/SIZE]


[SIZE="7"]3:[/SIZE]


Note the river connects all three.

[Mardoc]

I think Dwarves/Spirits and Humans/Beer makes more sense .

Did you miss the detail that we don't actually have any dwarves :neenernee


Now, onto the minor detail of planning out start...

NOTE: THIS IS NOT OUR DECISION YET

General thinking: The Clan needs the heaviest hammer site, since Expansive only boosts hammers. I think that's site 2. We probably settle in place here, moving the settler 1W and back for scouting info. Or, maybe settle on the marble instead. In either case, hammers, especially early hammers, over everything else.

Edit: What was I thinking? OF COURSE we move to the marble - that gains us the corn, without sacrificing a 2-hammer plant

The Elohim want a food site for running specialists - but that doesn't have to be the capital. The Calabim want a food site for boosting GovManor and eventual Feasting - capital definitely fits the bill there, they want every site to be food-rich. So I'd put the Calabim in the food heaviest site, which is site 3. Here - I'd probably move 1SE to the grass hill, to enable Dereptus and get the health bonus, although losing the plains hill is tough.

That leaves the Elohim in site 1, which is coincidentally the best commerce site - a detail that works well with the Philo guys anyway. Again, we definitely want Dereptus here, so we need to move - probably 1 SW.



Seem reasonable?