CIV VI Gathering Storm PBEM in autumn

[scooter]

I picked up Gathering Storm for $18.00 ... see links here https://www.polygon.com/deals/2019/9/17/...-exclusive It said the promo ends in 2 days when I was purchasing it.

Oh great catch, perfect. Also bought the gold edition because it's much better than buying R&F + all the other DLCs piecemeal. 


So I'm up for a PBEM officially then. I'm very inexperienced at Civ6, so if anyone who's played a good bit wants to ded-lurk and answer my dumb questions and/or bounce ideas, let me know.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

I picked up Gathering Storm for $18.00 ... see links here https://www.polygon.com/deals/2019/9/17/...-exclusive It said the promo ends in 2 days when I was purchasing it.

Oh great catch, perfect. Also bought the gold edition because it's much better than buying R&F + all the other DLCs piecemeal. 


So I'm up for a PBEM officially then. I'm very inexperienced at Civ6, so if anyone who's played a good bit wants to ded-lurk and answer my dumb questions and/or bounce ideas, let me know.

I'm starved for Civ VI without my PC, and I think I'm okayish at the game, so I'll happily sign on.

[scooter]

I'm starved for Civ VI without my PC, and I think I'm okayish at the game, so I'll happily sign on.

Sounds great!


I guess we should give it another day or so to see if anyone else would like to sign up? In the meantime, are there any standard "house rules" worth knowing about? I've seen something about closing some slightly exploit-y things like abusing city-states in a recent game I've lurked a bit. That and there's a Gathering Storm pantheon that gives you a free settler for some insane reason.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

The Venetian Arsenal wonder is banned, as is the free settler pantheon. In the latest PBEM, the rule on city-states was you can't conquer an un-suzerained CS, because otherwise the meta was to just gobble up every CS near you. You have to declare war on the suzerain to conquer a CS (and you can't conquer your own vassals).

I can't remember anything else?

[TheArchduke]

The Venetian Arsenal, Scythia are banned for double unit reasons. The free settler pantheon is a bit OP as well especially in competitive play if you first encounter a religious CS.

Personally I think that the CS protection is kinda a symptom of carebear builderitis where conquest is somehow dirty. I disagree the meta is gobbling up CS, some can be of great benefit to one and you should be able to choose where you settle, conquer and raze. It offers a good stepping stone up from barbs to CS to civs. And it involves a serious investment into military at the start.
I think CS are much better served by the mapmaker making their sites a bit less attractive so you think twice.

I also think that some CIVs abilities like Australia, Persia, etc. are prone to serious abuse (YMMV). Dowing someone to just boost him, dowing someone else to just make your units on another front quicker. I would rather not ban those civs but insist that people only dow someone when they actually want to hurt him, conquer him or follow through (stop religious units, traders, etc...) Comes down to decency I suppose.

In all those things I would gather suggestions and make a quick vote.

Mapmaker:

Chevalier

Roster:

Alhambram
Cornflakes
Scooter
TheArchduke

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

If I'm making the map, are people comfortable with me ded-lurking Scooter with general Civ VI strategic advice and question-answering?

EDIT: Other things y'all need to work out:
1)Civ picks - a snake, a random draw to choose from, totally free-for-all, etc.
2)Map details - Continents/Pangaea/Fractal, etc. Figure New World age. Do you want to play around with the mirror option to guarantee balanced starts? (It won't be like PBEM1 where Sullla was able to exploit the predictable map script, it'll still be a mostly hand-drawn map). Stuff like that.

[scooter]

It's a small game, so I'm comfortable with a flat "no exploits" rule that I think should cover most of those things you suggested in addition to the bans (VA, Scythia, free settler). Follow the spirit of the rule, and we should be ok. I trust everyone. That would also cover things like DOW'ing just to pillage (pillage abuse is still a thing right?). If there's any other common gray areas, now's a good time to bring it up.


I'd prefer civ pick to be handled similarly to the last game where you're given a random set of 5ish to choose from, and you pick from that. My civ list just doubled, so it's just easier to digest picking from 5. If I could offer a tweak from last time, maybe roll 1 GS civ, 1 RF civ, and then 3 of ANY kind.


Some more stray thoughts:

* I'm not sure what maps you guys have/haven't played. I'd only request it not be something especially water heavy. Past that I'm up for either mapmaker's choice or any strong feelings on script.


* Is there any compelling reason not to do this as Play-By-Cloud?


* I haven't seen how the mirrored starts work. If it's mainly just the capital land, I'm cool with trying that out.


* I could go either way on CS rules. No strong feelings.

[Woden]

Personally I think that the CS protection is kinda a symptom of carebear builderitis where conquest is somehow dirty. I disagree the meta is gobbling up CS, some can be of great benefit to one and you should be able to choose where you settle, conquer and raze. It offers a good stepping stone up from barbs to CS to civs. And it involves a serious investment into military at the start.
I think CS are much better served by the mapmaker making their sites a bit less attractive so you think twice.

It was more about milking the city states for gold, science, and culture than being able to get a free city.  Having a science city state next to you and pillaging the campus every 10 turns to get a free tech is not very balanced. I will agree that not being able to conquer them is a little extreme; you could just have a gentlemen's agreement not to exploit them. 

My offer to make the map still stands if CMF wants to dedlurker scooter. Mirrored map might be interesting to try but one thing to think about is once you know your quadrant, you know the map. Not sure if that is a bad thing or not. Just wanted to point it out.

[Cornflakes]

Woden mapmaking and CMF dedlurking sounds good to me.

I generated a couple test mirror maps. The landforms are mirrored, the terrain and features are close-but-not-quote-mirroed (approximately the same amount of desert, tundra, forests, jungle, etc. in approximately the same locations but not a true mirror), the rivers and resources are definitely NOT mirrored. Personally I would prefer a non-mirrored map. Something like: fractal script, all start on same landmass, max disasters, everything else left to map maker. Borrowing the settings format from PBEM15:

Map Settings
Map Type: Fractal - all players start on same landmass. Give mapmaker freedom to try Pangea or another script if noting decent turns up in a reasonable number of attempts.
Difficult: Prince
Start: Balanced
World Age: New
Everything Else mapmaker's choice (or Random)
No natural wonder starts
Number of City States - mapmaker's choice.
No Goody Huts

Regarding city states ...

I think CS are much better served by the mapmaker making their sites a bit less attractive so you think twice.

I agree with this. In all the maps I made I always located the CS without fresh water [either coastal or dry] but ensured that there was at least 1 valid aqueduct site so that players could increase housing grow the cities with some investment. This prevents someone from capturing a large juicy CS at T50. I suggest using this as mapmaker guideline. Then allow capture/raze without restrictions.

Ban pillaging of CS except at part of a conquest attempt?

I'd prefer civ pick to be handled similarly to the last game where you're given a random set of 5ish to choose from, and you pick from that. My civ list just doubled, so it's just easier to digest picking from 5. If I could offer a tweak from last time, maybe roll 1 GS civ, 1 RF civ, and then 3 of ANY kind.

My only concern with this random roll is that there are a considerable number of lower-tier leaders and it is not unlikely for someone to get 5 duds. With 40+ leaders available I suggest increasing to ***1 GS civ, 1 RF civ, and then 5 of ANY kind*** Still limits the amount of civs you have to review, but more likely to get something you can work with.

* Is there any compelling reason not to do this as Play-By-Cloud?

Looks like it includes notifications that your turn is ready which is the most important (other than stability, if we can trust Firaxis ...). I'm fine giving it a try.

The Venetian Arsenal, Scythia are banned for double unit reasons. The free settler pantheon is a bit OP as well especially in competitive play if you first encounter a religious CS.

Fine with these bans

[Cornflakes]

Also we need to ban Maori civ. First issue is impossible for mapmaker to balance with one player starting at sea and able to roam about the map and settle anywhere. Second issue, it's crazy overpowered. In fact it might be the most overpowered of all the civs.

1) starting settler + warrior can cover an incredible distance getting first-to-meet bonus on many coastal city states
2) +1 production on all forests and rainforests from T0 is like getting free mines everywhere ... 4 yield tiles are abundant, and 5 yield tiles commonplace.
3) Maori can spend 10 turns looking for the ideal super-site, maybe a jungle-belt with 6-yield bananas or spices, a natural wonder, etc. etc. ... with 3 free housing for capital you don't even need to find fresh water at the super site!
4) Don't need iron for swords! [EDIT: this one is not necessarily a benefit since swords are pushed back further to Construction]
5) 2 free techs + free builder from start