Realms Beyond Werewolf 2 : Game Thread

[Serdoa]

Roland, I will state some more stuff in a short while, but for now: It is easy to write that if your head is not the one on the chopping block. You were found lying and instead of helping us sorting that mess and looking at it from a clean point of view you just go on now with being melodramatic and providing NOTHING to help us.

Don't get me wrong, I am sorry for you that this doesn't turn out how you'd liked but you are also a skilled writer, so I simply will not buy in that you feel as melodramatic as you let it sound.

Anyway, something helpful:



I let my wife go out for dinner alone with some friends only so that I can start writing up my thoughts before it is too late - so expect something more to come. And for god's sake, stop taking everything as pure truth and ask yourself if what people tell you in full self-confidence is really true. For example

Lynch Selrahc. If he's the devil lynch uberfish. If selrahc isn't then the owl bloc is lying, and lynch roland and friends. If by crazy series of coincidences I'm the fool and there really is an owl then you still get selrahc.

sunrise writes that we should lynch Selrahc because if he is the devil it is pure win and if he is not then we can lynch Roland and friends. Oh great - you tell us then whom of Roland and his friends exactly? Because they are not all wolves - I am still not even sure that Roland is.

But it gets better with "If by crazy series of coincidences I'm the fool and there really is an owl" [SIZE="1"](so even our self-proclaimed seer has no clue if the owl-story is the truth, even that it is our only evidence against Selrahc) [/SIZE]"then you still get Selrahc." Um, am I really the only one who wonders what exactly that means? I try to change the names and only use roles: "If I'm the fool and there really is an owl then you still get the Seer."

[haphazard1]

One more thought: I bet the people in the Spoiler thread are having one heck of a good time watching all this craziness.

[Roland]

I don't have time to post anything right now (it will have to wait until I get off work), but what do you want me to say Serdoa? You spend the first two days trying to descredit me. Now that you've got your wish, you're trying to turn it around? Seriously.

I'll take a good, hard look at this when I get home, and see if there's anything I can do to "help straighten this out", but at this point it's all laid out. I honestly don't know what to add. I don't know what more to tell you. You talk awfully big, but you really haven't brought much help to the table before today, in my eyes. I was tired of defending myself against you and Scooter on Day 2 - what makes you think I'll have any desire to continue now that you're turning it around on me again?

I am a Villager. I want to help the Village. At this point, I see nothing better than staying the course - if we're wrong about Selrahc we'll know who to start with, and I'll do my goddamn best to find out where everything went wrong. If we're right, and Selrahc IS a 'Wolf, all this speculation about whether I've been played or not is MOOT. The ONLY ones who had any dealing in this whole bullshit plan were the Masons and the Owl - that's it. If there was anyone else, I don't know of it, so I can't offer them up. I told you what I know, and half the people here think I'm lying. What, you think if you badger me enough I'll give up something new? I'm just going to turn about-face and say, "Ha ha, it was all a ruse. I ruined the game for the whole Village. Suckers!" Is that really what you expect of me at this point?

Everything I've been LED to believe hinges on whether we're right or wrong about Selrahc. After we determine that we can move forward, but if you see ANY way we can do so without lynching either Selrahc or Sunrise, please enlighten me. Otherwise, it all looks like ridiculously wild speculation and accusation - which is exactly what led us to lynch Meiz instead of a real 'Wolf.

[Rowain]

I think haphazard has it right about Gaspar.

Why is it neither you (Roland) not any seer owl Mason and so on says anything about Gaspar. What is with him that you and all the others completly ignore his not talking not giving any resons.

Why is he allowed to simply state Meiz is a wolf without offering any reasons for it without beeing called out by you and others. Why is he sacrosanct that there is not one tiny post by you concerning him. Meiz got lynched with far less evidence, Serdoa has been far more helpfull but get pummeled along by you, by Kyan, by Luddite (who threatened him with a lynching) and Gaspar who simply says Meiz is a wolf -no reason given- no explanation nothing but instead a huge nonsense statement about 'there are different tactics for early and lategame and I will not tell anyone why I know Meiz is a wolf'.

@Lewwyn Having seer + owl but no fool = 2 secure scans/night in the game that would be unbalancing. Game1 was won without Seer(died night1) and Owl.

PS: I still think killing Selrahc might be wise. but I also believe that we need more discussion, more talking so I will not vote until tomorrow to give us 24hours more time.

[sunrise089]

Serdoa - for the validity of my own claims (whether I'm the seer, a fool, or a secret wolf) all you have to do is uberfish. I'm not making any roundabout accusations, I'm saying 100% the only person I've seer'ed is uberfish and he returned "wolf."

For the validity of the owl/roland bloc's claims it's a bit more complicated. If Selrahc is a normal villager then I'll post the details of every chat I've had with anyone in that bloc and their names. I'd still prefer you not lynch me until after uberfish, as it's possible I've been played by the roland bloc. If selrahc is the devil, as the evidence presented to me suggests, then the roland bloc looks pretty good, and we kill uberfish next. If selrahc is some other secret role, which by the way he has not claimed, then you can at least be pretty certain the owl+roland bloc has their claimed special ability.

If what I hope happens happens (selrahc lynched as devil, uberfish lynched as wolf) then those trying to avoid lynching selrahc are going to look pretty bad and the game may be essentially over. I'm not saying to trust the rolan bloc completely (I don't) nor even to trust me completely. I'm saying we have 100% effective tests to determine if the roland bloc and myself are telling the truth.

Finally here's how I'd write out your "If I'm the fool and there really is an owl then you still get the Seer:" - "If sunrise is the fool and there really is an owl then you gain knowledge of who the dangerous fool role is and gain a trusted owl villager at the cost of a seer who hasn't contributed anything and has barely even claimed to be the seer.

[Rowain]

Everything I've been LED to believe hinges on whether we're right or wrong about Selrahc.

Nope as i have pointed out Selrahc beeing the devil does not redeem you or Gaspar.

[sunrise089]

@Rowain (we're supposed to avoid editing posts, right?) - Not disagreeing with you at all that Gaspar is suspicious. I voted for Meiz partly to try and save myself and partly because he was suspicious to me (about equally suspicious with 3-4 others).

The difference now is that the roland bloc is 100% certain about selrahc versus just more confident about Meiz versus any other alternative. Talking now is fine, but I'd much rather effeminate selrahc and then uberfish (assuming neither the owl or myself are wolves or fools) and then vote on the next person without wolfish types trying to confuse things.

[Serdoa]

Well, what do I want Roland? I want to be sure that there are not more lies you didn't tell us - simply because we haven't catched them yet ourselves. Because till now you only admitted lies which we all knowed by facts already at that point in time. So, I am simply not sure how much it is too trust when you say your laid your cards on the table. You said that on Day 2 as well without telling us everything. Do we even now know why you were so sure that Meiz was a wolf? I think not. When he knowed he would die - an hour maybe before he finally was lynched - he asked you for the evidence you had stated at the start of Day 2 you would give for his guilt. Yet you still haven't delivered, so I wonder what was it? Did you only trust someone? Hopefully not sunrise who states that he knows that uberfish is a wolf for sure due to his scry but for some reason which got not explained you and your trusted network (together with sunrise if I understood correctly) have decided to kill Selrahc whom you know that he has a night-role but not which one - not even if it is a werewolf-role. Does someone of that group cares to explain why? I mean after the debacle on day 2 would it not make more sense to actually vote for someone you know for certain (well, at least if we have no fool of course) is a wolf instead of betting your chips on maybe getting the Devil? Having lost already credibility by lynching Meiz the whole group decides to go for another shot in the dark instead of a 100% kill? And the group even now states "If we are wrong [SIZE="1"][and you kill a villager power-role][/SIZE] you can then kill Roland [SIZE="1"][because even that we are certain to know at least one wolf we won't tell you but instead let you lynch another villager just to prove our point][/SIZE]". I mean REALLY? And everyone jumps on that bandwagon? My ass...

And yeah, I will eat something quick and then you receive my thoughts on everyone and on what to do - yes, even if Rowain votes before 9 we won't lynch already today. I will not vote before this day is not half-over so that we have time to sleep about it and discuss it. No matter that again people try to force me.

[Rowain]

Kyan what is your opinion on Gaspar.
Lewwyn what do you say about Gaspar.

[haphazard1]

@Rowain (we're supposed to avoid editing posts, right?)

Followed by:

but I'd much rather effeminate selrahc and then uberfish

OK, now that is funny.

I'll comment on the sense of the post in a bit, but I could not pass that one up. :D