Realms Beyond Werewolf 2 : Game Thread

[Rowain]

The difference now is that the roland bloc is 100% certain about selrahc versus just more confident about Meiz versus any other alternative. Talking now is fine, but I'd much rather effeminate selrahc and then uberfish (assuming neither the owl or myself are wolves or fools) and then vote on the next person without wolfish types trying to confuse things.

Yes lets kill Selrahc tonight (without talking about Gaspar) and the next day it is 'Lets kill uberfish without talking about Gaspar and the next day it is lets kill xyz without talking about Gaspar etc etc.

I wanted to talk about Gaspar yesterday but then the roland bloc was sure (you included and with a wrong argument) that Meiz was a wolf so Gaspar was safed.

Everywhere I look I stumble over Mr Gaspar but no word from the Roland bloc.

[Gaspar]

I'll catch up a bit more later, as its clear Serdoa at least is going to not vote today, so we'll still have to have the full 48, so no hurry.

I have to say that I find it hilarious that for some I've become the face of the wolves. I'm about as insignificant a member of team village as there is. So it goes, I've made some mistakes this game, no doubt. I'm ok being a strawman for some here as well, I sleep just fine.

Rowain asked me why I had not yet explained my vote on Meiz. I think that I have. Basically, all of my votes prior to Selrahc were an exercise in tactical voting. Place a vote here or there, and see what the reaction from the players is. I think you can read a lot more from that than you can from just where the votes land at the end, which seems to be mostly what we're tracking. That was my plan for Day 1, and would have been my plan for Day 2 until the vote piled up on me. At that point, I moved to an exercise in saving one's own skin. I was suspicious of Meiz for the same reasons Lewwyn was. But I never was actually convinced of his guilt, I just left my vote there because I knew I was innocent, and that seemed to be the only alternative. Several people had moved ahead of him on my suspected wolf list by the time of the lynch but as I said when I was precariously close to being killed, I was not part of any network, so I had no angle with which to try and make something happen behind the scenes, so as to assure someone else being lynched and my survival. So I took the cowardly route and lived to see another day.

At this point, with a seer and an who knows whatever else out there, the tactical voting loses most of its charm. Basically, either Selrahc is indeed guilty, or I've been lied to heavily by supposed masons, owls, and the like. If Selrahc is innocent, then we know that and still are in decent shape for the future. If he's guilty, even better, as we have a dead wolf/devil and we have people in power roles to out them. So at this point, we're in great shape regardless of what happens with today's lynch vote.

And all the rest is just noise. Until such time that we lose our scrying roles, I'd much rather just sit tight, and vote sure things based off the results of those scrys. If we lose those roles, well, this whole exercise has forced a lot of people to get out of their comfort zone and there's lots of information that can be processed later.

And for me: I know I'm innocent, and for those who are unsure, there's a whole lot of better targets which will prove more in the future. You can always come back to me later if you are particularly sure of my guilt based off the flimsy evidence out there.

[uberfish]

Actually you don't need to vote me off. If sunrise (who will be high on the wolf target list) is killed and turns out to be the real seer you can auto-lynch me. I think he's the fool. It's possible that some other secret role could have interfered with a scan but seems unlikely.

[haphazard1]

If what I hope happens happens (selrahc lynched as devil, uberfish lynched as wolf) then those trying to avoid lynching selrahc are going to look pretty bad and the game may be essentially over.

Sunrise, I admit the first part of your statement is true enough. If Selrahc turns out to be the devil, anyone not voting to lynch him will be a target. (Myself obviously included.) And maybe he will be -- Selrahc was on my possible fur-n-fangs list, just not at the top. And mostly for different reasons than those being given by the Roland block.

But the second part of your statement does not make sense to me. The game would be over? It is only Day 3 of a 21 person WW game. The absolute earliest this game could end would be Day 7, if every Day results in a wolf or devil lynch with no mistakes by the village. Most likely the game will go on longer than that even if Selrahc is a wolf/devil, since finding the remaining wolves will not be a perfect process.

So why is the game "over" if Selrahc is the devil? Who exactly would be the remaining wolves to be lynched one after another? Even given the scenario presented by the Roland block, I do not think it is all that obvious who all the remaining wolves are. And if that scenario is true, losing their Devil now is not a huge loss to the wolves as the villager power roles will have been revealed.

All the people claiming this is THE make-or-break decision of the game are pushing too hard, IMHO.

[Gaspar]

Sunrise, I admit the first part of your statement is true enough. If Selrahc turns out to be the devil, anyone not voting to lynch him will be a target. (Myself obviously included.) And maybe he will be -- Selrahc was on my possible fur-n-fangs list, just not at the top. And mostly for different reasons than those being given by the Roland block.

But the second part of your statement does not make sense to me. The game would be over? It is only Day 3 of a 21 person WW game. The absolute earliest this game could end would be Day 7, if every Day results in a wolf or devil lynch with no mistakes by the village. Most likely the game will go on longer than that even if Selrahc is a wolf/devil, since finding the remaining wolves will not be a perfect process.

So why is the game "over" if Selrahc is the devil? Who exactly would be the remaining wolves to be lynched one after another? Even given the scenario presented by the Roland block, I do not think it is all that obvious who all the remaining wolves are. And if that scenario is true, losing their Devil now is not a huge loss to the wolves as the villager power roles will have been revealed.

All the people claiming this is THE make-or-break decision of the game are pushing too hard, IMHO.

Because, if they're right, then we have a confirmed owl. Then the next day we lynch Uber and we can get a confirmed seer. And if we have two folks who can scry during the night, that's the part where we win..

The make or break part is confirming the owl/seer. Once we have that info, then we get fact to vote on, rather than speculation.

[haphazard1]

At this point, with a seer and an who knows whatever else out there, the tactical voting loses most of its charm. Basically, either Selrahc is indeed guilty, or I've been lied to heavily by supposed masons, owls, and the like. If Selrahc is innocent, then we know that and still are in decent shape for the future.

This is the part I do not agree with. If Selrahc is innocent, it means a whole group of people have been thoroughly manipulated by the wolves -- enough to achieve the lynchings of two innocent villagers: Meiz and Selrahc.

As I theorized earlier, if that happens I suspect these confused people to be easily stampeded by the wolves into lynching at least one more innocent villager (Roland). At which point the wolves will be sitting very, very close to complete victory.

If he's guilty, even better, as we have a dead wolf/devil and we have people in power roles to out them. So at this point, we're in great shape regardless of what happens with today's lynch vote.

Go ahead, says a top wolf suspect, just kill another villager. Everything is great either way! Great for him and his furry fellows.

And all the rest is just noise. Until such time that we lose our scrying roles, I'd much rather just sit tight, and vote sure things based off the results of those scrys.

Given all the claims, counter-claims, and outright lies so far, why anyone is willing to trust the supposed seers and scry results is beyond my comprehension.

And for me: I know I'm innocent, and for those who are unsure, there's a whole lot of better targets which will prove more in the future. You can always come back to me later if you are particularly sure of my guilt based off the flimsy evidence out there.

The suspected wolf is fine with our coming back to him later, after we kill several more villagers. How generous of him.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

This...:

I think haphazard has it right about Gaspar.

Why is it neither you (Roland) not any seer owl Mason and so on says anything about Gaspar. What is with him that you and all the others completly ignore his not talking not giving any resons.

Why is he allowed to simply state Meiz is a wolf without offering any reasons for it without beeing called out by you and others. Why is he sacrosanct that there is not one tiny post by you concerning him. Meiz got lynched with far less evidence, Serdoa has been far more helpfull but get pummeled along by you, by Kyan, by Luddite (who threatened him with a lynching) and Gaspar who simply says Meiz is a wolf -no reason given- no explanation nothing but instead a huge nonsense statement about 'there are different tactics for early and lategame and I will not tell anyone why I know Meiz is a wolf'.

Sums up my reasoning behind the Gaspar vote. My records show that his two tactical votes in day 1 were Kyan (3rd overall) and Rowain (20th overall). I'm still curious what, if anything, he was able to glean from those two votes. The Kyan vote didn't seem to spark any interest (maybe that makes him innocent, maybe it makes him guilty) and the Rowain vote was part of a bandwagon that dissipated pretty quickly. But I'm still interested and still listening for observations.

Hmmph.

[Rowain]

That was my plan for Day 1, and would have been my plan for Day 2 until the vote piled up on me.

When you made your Meiz vote there were exactly 0 votes against you.

When you postred again (~5 hours later) you had exactly 0 votes on you.

at the time of your next post (17 hours after your vote) you had gathered 2 votes while sunrise was leading with 6 followed by Meiz with 2. Clearly a case of high danger. No changing from you yep the tactical voting is in full swing.

A little later MJW posted:
Gasper and LW attacked Miez very early after the kill very suddenly. They are both wolves or Miez is a wolf playing baddly. I vote Miez because if he is a villagar; Gasper and LW can be lyched.


Then you did gather some votes. Now look who voted for whom:
Meiz had been voted for by : Rolanf Lewwyn MJW sunrise and you . Quite clearly you was no member of any group.
Shortly after Kyan and Luddite voted for Meiz. So Meiz was leading thanks to votes. from Kyan, Luddite, Lewwyn, roland, MJW, sunrise and you.
The group you did not belong too then started to threaten those who voted for you.
And you fighting for your life write in your next post that you have no intention to explain your actions and still refuse to say a word about Meiz.. Clearly thats a man who fights for his life.

His next post contains again talk about the MJW switch but nothing about Meiz. In the meantime Roland (whose group he does not belong too) sends me PM 's stating that he had worked with Gaspar that Gaspar is usefull and that I should help save him.

So yes Gsapar tells the truth. That the whole bloc voted for his opponennt, that the whole bloc never asked for his reasons and that the leader of said bloc contacted me and pleaded for Gaspars life is just coincidence.

[Rowain]

PS: there were 2 people mióving from Gaspar late.: myself and uberfish

BTW even if Selrahc and uberfish are wolf neither the owl nor the seer are completly granted.

The fool gets random results so sometime he will be right and sometime he will be wrong. A wrong owl (shortsighted?) might get the same.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Gaspar is usefull and that I should help save him.

And so this begs the question --- to whom is Gaspar of use? What is his useful purpose?