Werewolf 3 Game Thread

[Roland]

If we all agree as a village not to claim fool unless we actually are the fool, then that means that anyone who claims fool is innocent or a wolf. If someone contests the claim, we lynch both of them. This either gets us an immediate wolf kill, or a 1:1 wolf kill, both of which are favourable situations.

Save the claim until it's needed though.

Alright, I'm getting a headache thinking about this. I say we just go with Selrahc here. I think I just argued against this very fact when novice proposed it, but honestly my head is pounding so much I'm not even sure anymore. If that's the case, sorry novice.

Can we please move on now?

[scooter]

JKaen seems to be having a parallel discussion here, but whatever.

I most definitely care. I don't follow your reasoning here at all.

Once player A is lynched and revealed as the fool, the wolf piping up is next on the block. Conversely, if A is following a "painfully easy wolf tactic" we lynch player A and nail a wolf, and the player piping up is most probably the real fool.

Remember, trading a villager for a wolf is a very good trade.

Still disagree. Think of it this way. Let's say we have two people on the chopping block, and one of them is a wolf, though we don't know it. That wolf decides to get funny and claim to be the Fool. That could potentially save him and get an innocent lynched. To me, if a guy is on the block and starts screaming "Fool!" I'm thinking it doesn't change my vote one bit, even if it turns out he WAS the real fool, because how was I supposed to know? No one knew. So if the real Fool starts screaming Fool because he's about to get lynched, well we won't know the difference, so his claim means nothing.

And yeah, so if a wolf claims fool and the fool claims fool, and we lynch the real fool, what happens? Sure we get the wolf the next day, but that's one more day we lost out on because of a Fool claim. Remember, trading a villager for a wolf is actually equivalent to trading 3 villagers for 1 wolf, because the wolves get night kills in between. Not such a great deal when it's put in that light - it's more like breaking even.

Example: Think of the WW2 scenario where uberfish claimed to be the seer. I remember the behind the scenes for that day... Uberfish was pretty confident he was going down, so his plan was to claim seer. Worst case scenario, he gets lynched, which was going to happen anyways. Best case scenario, he drags a villager down with him, which buys the wolves another day, so it's equivalent to two villager kills. Remember - this came dang close to happening, as he nearly killed Sareln that day. He would've obviously been lynched the very next day, but if his plan was successful, the WW's likely win WW2 due to the extra day they would've bought themselves. This is why the Fool is pointless, because at this stage is offers no benefit to the village, but tons of potential benefit to the werewolves.

[novice]

Circular logic, much? If a 'Wolf claims to be the Fool in an attempt to save himself, and we decide ahead of time to lynch him regardless, he's not going to claim to be the Fool, now is he? Likewise if he's a Villager, except that if the person claiming actually is a Villager (the Fool) no one's going to speak up against it because that would be suicide.

Essentially, your argument makes no sense, unless you're trying to hint that you're the Fool?

Maybe I'm not explaining properly. To me this is obvious.

1. If you're a villager you should under no circumstances claim to be the fool.
2. If you're the fool and you find yourself with a lot of votes on you, you should roleclaim.
3. IMO a wolf would be suicidal to claim to be the wolf, but apparently that might happen since some people think that is a good wolf strategy.

Case 1 should not occur because it is detrimental to the village, so if you're a villager, don't do it.

Case 2a) There is a counter claim, which must be by a wolf. Both you and the counter claimant will be lynched, one before the other. Village trades a villager for a wolf.

Case 2b) There is no counter claim. Village conludes that the fool is indeed who he says he is, the village avoids lynching a villager.

Case 3: The real fool should counter claim. See 2a for what happens next.

Fake edit: See what Selrahc said. My point exactly.

[scooter]

Here's the one problem novice. What if a werewolf on the block claims Fool? If the real Fool never gets killed, he might've bought himself a ton of time. Also, there are five werewolves, so honestly, if we all agree that the Fool should role-claim near his death, then you better believe that all five werewolves will be willing to do it, because we all just agreed that it's your free ticket out. Of course, if the real Fool gets killed, then we know the fake Fool(s) was lying, but what if that never happens? What if the Fool never comes close to being lynched?

[novice]

3. IMO a wolf would be suicidal to claim to be the wolf

* claim to be the fool

I think at this stage we're all grasping at straws, so trading a villager lynch for a wolf lynch isn't a bad deal. Once we've found one wolf, finding other becomes easier (hopefully).

[scooter]

Also, what if the baner claims it to try to carefully save himself? Then the real Fool assumes the baner is a werewolf. My point is it can get so messy, that it would seriously hurt the village. If we totally take Fool claims off the table, then we've potentially saved ourself a truck load of headache.

[Bruindane]

[strike]Pocketbeetle[/strike]
Selrahc

[novice]

Here's the one problem novice. What if a werewolf on the block claims Fool? If the real Fool never gets killed, he might've bought himself a ton of time.

If a werewolf claims Fool the real Fool should come forward.
Also keep in mind that determining who amongst two people is wolf and who is villager is easier than picking a wolf from the crowd of 21. So more often than not, the village will lynch the wolf, and the fool will survive and gain trusted status.

[Selrahc]

Also, what if the baner claims it to try to carefully save himself? Then the real Fool assumes the baner is a werewolf.

With the current discussion on the subject the baner should not do that.

What if a werewolf on the block claims Fool?

The solution to that is simple. If the fool claim is contested, then we lynch the person on the block first.

If that person was the fool then we were going to lynch them anyway, and have now essentially gotten a free werewolf lynch for the next day out of the deal.

If that person was a wolf, then we have lynched a wolf and gotten a confirmed villager.

[novice]

Selrahc is such a suck-up, agreeing with everything I say. j/k

Are you trying to get me to change my vote?