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Roland Wrote:For what it's worth pocketbeetle, in re-reading my statement that you took such great offense to a few more times I can see why it would have struck you the way it did, to an extent. My comment, in one sentence, was actually two seperate but related comments. Poor formatting on my part. I should have done a better job of proof-reading my work. I'll try to be more explicit in my statements next time to avoid such confusion, as it's not in my nor the Village's best interests for me (nor anyone else) to be causing confusion.
Pint at the pub on me, as a show of good faith moving forward? Hey Roland 
I'm sorry, I forget you haven't read the FFH1 PBEM threads.
If this board supported "sardonic smilies" there would have been several when I described myself as having an "excellent reputation".
As several people have referred to in this thread, I seem to be widely regarded as a little bit sneaky, and that's probably not unfair. :rolleyes:
The point I was making at the time is: it's easy enough to find conspiracy theories in posts we make, without connections being magicked out of thin air, be it by deliberate action, accident, or simply bad phrasing.
We know you can be a good villager Roland, but I also got the impression from the last WW game that you can sometimes, as Ichabod put it, develop tunnel vision. Which is why I moved to stomp on it early and hard.
Either way, water under the bridge of a days old argument.
I'll have that pint anytime.
Catching up:
Sorry I wasn't here yesterday.
I'm not unsurprised to see myself leading the running on lynch votes, I am being a little inactive.
Rest assured that I am taking the time to read everything though, and as you can see, I'm making a point of being around before the lynch closes.
Having quickly skimmed through, there seems to be two other candidates: Novice and Selrahc.
This post by Novice caught my eye:
novice Wrote:Why Selrahc? He hasn't convinced me of his innocense, whereas small tidbits here and there posted by various players have made me inclined to believe they're villagers. An example: PocketBeetle was very quick to support my claim that I intended to lynch Cull with my last minute vote. A wolf wouldn't be so keen to remove suspicion and confusion. I like this, and not just because it's defending me.
Wolves want confusion, villagers want clarity.
People throwing around accusations and trying to influence others with little to no proof are either wolves or bad villagers imo.
Regarding Selrahc, I would be happier voting for him than Novice at this time.
But equally if we're wrong, we'll potentially be losing an experienced villager.
I'm now going to take the time to read this thread properly and will post after doing so.
Maybe I can introduce a fourth candidate, because atm, the choices aren't looking that great.
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In general, I think Ichabod seems to be reading a bit much into things. Everybody is constantly distancing themselves from the wolves as a matter of course; I don't see how Selrahc is more guilty of that than anybody else. Voting based on your gut feeling at this point is fine, but I'm not sure my gut feeling agrees with Ichabod's. I do agree with this part:
Ichabod Wrote:I have to say that I think that a good wolf tactic for the first days, when there isn't much evidence, is just refrain from posting any explanations/defense even when you have people voting to lynch you (if the bandwagon isn't strong enough). After some time of silence, the villagers tend to switch to other targets, while new theories start being made. Since you aren't posting, there's nothing to keep the villager's suspicions on you, so they will go for other targets. So, after some time you get cleared without doing a thing, much like what happened to Pocketbeetle on day 1.
Irgy touched upon this exact strategy in the post-WW2 discussion, saying he kept advising the other wolves to do just this, but couldn't do it himself when the pressure was on. I don't agree that Selrahc fits the description though; he was very quick to defend himself, in fact someone actually called him out on that. (Uberfish, I think.) So anyway, if this is a good wolf indicator, why should we let Pocketbeetle get away with it?
As I mentioned yesterday, I feel like the current candidates have been "seeded" some time ago. I think the late vote swing towards Cull on day 1 was brilliant; arbitrary for sure, but it should be a very effective way to reduce the wolves' ability to direct the vote. To me it seems unlikely that the wolves would swing the vote by a late rush of votes; it seems much more likely that they would try to direct where the vote is heading by quietly making a few well-placed votes early in the day.
That is one thing that I did note about Novice; I mentioned my suspicion towards Mardoc during night 1, and he was very quick to vote for him on day 2. To borrow a phrase from Scooter - is Novice attaching himself to me, or does he simply agree with me? Basically the same thing as with Meiz. I eventually learned in WW1 that I had a couple of wolves riding my coattails all game, agreeing with me every step of the way while I kept launching new theories. Maybe I make a good target for that kind of strategy.
The scary thing about Novice is of course that he is the mayor. Is it possible that the wolves went for a high-risk, high-reward strategy here? Personally, I was extremely unsurprised to see Novice elected as mayor; I think he was universally recognized as a smart and level-headed player before the game. Maybe Novice sensed the same thing, and after he got a couple of votes he felt he might inevitably be elected against his will. So instead, he embraced the opportunity and created an excellent cover by actively campaigning for it. Somebody later commented that everybody voting for himself as mayor should now be trusted. If this was a wolf gambit of sorts then it definitely turned into a stroke of genius with the subsequent death of the seer, before he could make a single scry.
To elaborate, the reason I think a wolf mayor is scary is three-fold: it takes more votes to lynch him, he can save another wolf from a tied vote, and he can use the position to "clear" himself, by lynching another wolf. In combination, that is quite an arsenal of powers. If left alone, such a mayor could become a very decisive factor in the end-game.
The other thing I noted about Novice is of course the "Worst baner ever" comment. I actually took this as a friendly jab at me personally, since I claimed that title myself on a couple of occasions during our private WW1 discussions (when we were both in the "trusted network"). So for me, to the degree I found it suspicious, it would be under the "attaching himself" line of thought, but I can certainly see how it could have been a clever and potentially very effective attempt at flushing out the baner, right when emotions were running high.
To summarize, my feelings are ambivalent towards Selrahc and Pocketbeetle, and I really hope Novice is innocent, though I can see some valid reasons for suspecting him.
If I am forced to join one of these three bandwagons I will probably lean towards Pocketbeetle (in every movie I ever saw the stablehand was hung like a horse), but I would still like to see a late swing of votes like yesterday, to shake off the wolves.
So I realize I look a little strange throwing my votes around here all by myself but I'm going to give it another shot and go for Uberfish. Seems like he was involved at an early stage in sowing suspicion towards both Novice and Selrahc.
I have to get some work done soon, so rather than posting a bunch of quotes from Uberfish, you can go read his posts in this thread if you think it merits a closer look.
(I had this post 95% complete when Pocketbeetle posted so I just finished it in an "unbiased" state of mind and will read his post now.)
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Couple of more points.
Roland Wrote:I get that you're not accusing him for agreeing with you, but you're completely ignoring the most obvious Villager-based reason for him to say what he did! It's like you have blinders to seeing anything but the idea that such a case would be 'Wolfish. I'm not ignoring the other possibility, I'm actually constantly thinking other alternatives. So I would not say I have blinders on, I'm just telling my suspicions and thoughts out loud. I don't have any solid evidence, so what else should I do?
Roland Wrote:In what way do we trade a Seer for a 'Wolf? Nothing says the Seer has to come out on Day 2 with his scry. The best plan, IMHO <snip> I'm not saying that it would definitely reveal the seer (but I understand it might look like that, language barrier again, I guess?). I'm just saying that it's a valid tactic for a wolf to _attempt_ to get seer to reveal himself. But as you said, Seer is dead so it doesn't matter anymore. But it did matter, before Bob was killed.
It's practically a tossup between novice and Sehlrac for me. If one of them is revealed as villager, it's quite possible that I'm voting the alternative on the next day.
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7 hours left:
Lynch:
7v: Pocketbeetle ( Rowain, Lewwyn, Jkaen, Mardoc, Fire & Ice, Cull, scooter )
6v: Selrahc ( Ichabod, uberfish, novice, Irgy, Bruindane, Gold ergo sum )
5v: novice ( Mr Nice Guy, sandover, Serdoa, Selrahc, Meiz)
1v: uberfish ( zakalwe )
2 Not voted:
Pocketbeetle, Roland
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Roland Wrote:I just think your behavior is way too much like the last game for me to let it slide without noticing,
Roland Wrote:Maybe I'm letting my experience in WW2 color my judgment here, but the fact that Rowain's sticking to the same strategy as before is enough for me not to trust him
I find it amusing that you comtinue to say this without realising that this was the very reason why Gaspar called me the best wolf in WW2. To spell it out for you: I tried to play like a villager in WW2 and I'm a villager now. That you can't tell the difference makes me very happy with my performance in WW2.
As Agatha Christie - fan I find it very amusing to meet a Captain Hastings in real live 
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zakalwe Wrote:Somebody later commented that everybody voting for himself as mayor should now be trusted.
I looked it up, it was actually Ichabod who said this, back in this post. Though it was phrased more like an open-ended question:
Ichabod Wrote:Fire&Ice, novice and Meiz are the more likely to be villagers to me. Why? Because they voted themselves as mayors. Being mayor is not a good position for a wolf, IMO. Too much exposure, even in a no PM game. What do you guys think about it?
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@ Zalkawe - I think I am playing this game wrong. I thought it was important to build momentum for votes and be able to force hard choices to be made in a close vote. You are essentially saying it is a waste of my time as it's all manipulated by the wolves, and that voting randomly at the last second is preferable.
I am voting for Selrahc, but if I wake up and find uberfish steamrolled, I'll admit being out of my depth.
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Bruindane Wrote:@ Zalkawe - I think I am playing this game wrong. I thought it was important to build momentum for votes and be able to force hard choices to be made in a close vote. You are essentially saying it is a waste of my time as it's all manipulated by the wolves, and that voting randomly at the last second is preferable.
No, I'm saying that's what I think the wolves would try to do (manipulate the vote by seeding suspicions early). We have no way of knowing whether or not they succeeded. I agree that a close vote is excellent, but obviously not if the lynch candidates happen to be "selected" by the wolves in advance. I feel a late swing would reduce the chance of that happening. (And if it later turns out that the vote swung away from a wolf, then that would be quite revealing too).
I fully understand your skepticism though, and I'm not saying you should switch your vote to a random person that you don't suspect rather than going for people you do suspect. It's just that I personally don't feel like "falling into line" just yet, so I want to leave an option for others that might feel the same way.
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Btw, I was fully expecting you to throw another menhir at me after my previous poetry recital, so I had Zakofonix prepare a retort for it in advance.
What the *CLANG* is a menhir anyway
I have to learn not to stand in its way
My take on you is you're no giver
In my mind you have yet to deliver
Not sure I totally agree with Zakafonix on this one currently, but he gets a certain artistic license (if you know what I mean).
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I actually don't have much to say, but the weekend is beginning and I finally see daylight ahead. Maybe I'll go back and read the thread a bit. I'm staying on pocketbeetle. Selrahc and novice? Nothing has excited me so far. Nothing has made me say, "Oh yeah, man. He's such a wolf!"
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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