[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[ljubljana]

Did TAD really only kill /one/ of my ships? That's quite a break for us if so. I'll check out the save and see how much damage I can do, especially against the ironclad. It is probably not very much - I definitely don't think it's worth trading like 3 or 4 caravels for it if that's how it would have to be. I think breaking out in the west is plausible (I can probably kill two caravels over there since they're unpromoted), but I'm not sure what I'd be able to accomplish after that since the ironclad would just move over to keep me trapped.

I could retreat to move the fleet closer to you, but I don't know how much sense that makes - TAD will again get in a bunch of free hits if I do that since all his ships have one more movement than mine. My instincts are that it's better to start killing what ships I can in the north and have your caravels intercept the southern attack when it comes. If I can kill most or all of the caravels over the next few turns, TAD will be in real trouble with no way to protect the frigates. But let me take a look and see how many ships I'll be able to get first.

Could it really be that Viking longships are going to turn the tide of a game-defining war this late in the game? I'm honestly kind of shocked by that, but it sort of seems like that's the scenario we may be building up to .

[Woden]

Did TAD really only kill /one/ of my ships? That's quite a break for us if so. I'll check out the save and see how much damage I can do, especially against the ironclad. It is probably not very much - I definitely don't think it's worth trading like 3 or 4 caravels for it if that's how it would have to be. I think breaking out in the west is plausible (I can probably kill two caravels over there since they're unpromoted), but I'm not sure what I'd be able to accomplish after that since the ironclad would just move over to keep me trapped.

Moving west will open up the battlefield and prevent him from pinching you. If you keep shifting west and north, you might be able to get around him as you kill him and it will limit the number of ships he can kill.

[ljubljana]

As expected, TAD's southern fleet is already on the move and very close to trapping me:



There is no GA in the south, so we have a turn, but that's it. This is one thing I was worried about with engaging last turn instead of this turn...if we had waited you would have caravels ready to intercept this, but now I am not sure how we can keep them from completing the surround unless I retreat or I can kill a lot of ships up north. Let's see how possible the latter is though.

Idk though, maybe we can turn this to our advantage. TAD will take 2 turns to move in for the surround, and is probably not expecting a wave of 10 caravels to appear from the fog right behind his trapping ships. If my navy can hold out a few turns until your caravels arrive it will be TAD's ships that become trapped.

[ljubljana]

My frigates are on track to do A LOT more damage than I expected to the ironclad...at least, according to the interface. The culprit is that it doesn't seem to be getting any support bonuses despite being next to two caravels - do you know what the deal is with that? Is that the sort of thing the interface might be lying to me about? If not, I have to say I'm really tempted to go for it, ridding TAD's navy of that menace would be a big deal, especially if The Revenge can survive the frigate barrage that would follow.

Note that I'm not getting the diplo visibility bonus this turn, just the MA one. I guess TAD might have had Printing partially completed? Or maybe he went for the IA too... Still, that's much better than if we had lost the MA bonus this turn .

[ljubljana]

Oh, okay - that shows how much I know about the Civ6 combat engine . I thought they applied to defending from ranged attacks but not to attacking .

[ljubljana]

Whoooops, I accidentally had the city fire on TAD's caravel while I was poking around. Watch out for trackpads, folks! It did 35 damage though which is not bad at all, and I think that was the target I was going to go for anyways.

[ljubljana]

Woden (or thrawn if you feel like it), mechanical question for you:



If I move The Revenge 1E, swapping places with the wounded caravel, both ships will be able to attack this turn, right? I won't get blocked from hitting the ironclad with the Revenge due to ZoC rules or blocked form attacking at all due to some obscure rule about switching unit positions? I need all six frigates to fire on the clad if we're going to, and that means moving one up next to it, which is spooky - I think I will have to kill it with a caravel, ideally The Revenge itself, to keep that from resulting in a unit being exposed.

Also Woden, I might keep an extra 180 of your gold to upgrade that bireme on the fish next turn depending on how the combat plays out. It will heal this turn, and is in a good position to be part of a shield against TAD's southern forces next turn if it comes down to that.

The more I look at this position, the more I think that this is our one big chance to go after the ironclad when our frigates can all reach it and will not be in danger of a counterpunch (since we are not yet surrounded and our caravel wall is still intact). I think we should go for it - without that unit, what will happen to TAD's position here? He will not be able to keep us from breaking out to the north next turn and will not be able to keep his frigates safe, and will need to blow all his attacks with them on The Revenge to keep us from becoming the only power with a super-ship. I am not sure he would even be able to kill it that way, he gets only 6 shots and it would defend at 72 + 5 (alliance) + 5 (GA) + 7 (embolon) + 10 (reinforced hull) = 99 CS, even more than the ironclad which we will not be able to kill in 6 hits ourselves.

[Woden]

As for gold, keep what you need if you want to upgrade a brieme but do send the remaining back. I should get another 580 next turn and combined with what you send and what I have from this turn, I shoudl be able to upgrade a bunch of stuff.

[ljubljana]

Ok, I shouldn't actually need 180 since I, you know, actually have a nonzero income lol.

Any thoughts on the ironclad attack? Man am I eager to kill this thing (but not so eager that I am going to rush into doing so, natch).

The alternatives are honestly not too promising-looking. I think I can kill two of the western caravels, but not all three, and I think I'd need frigate shots to do it. If I go after the ironclad, I don't think I will kill anything else this turn, but there's a chance I'll be able to get the now-weakened caravel next to Linear B if I have a frigate shot to spare. If we can get the ironclad, I think I am all-but-certain to be able to break out in the north next turn, and should at least be able to put up an okay-sized wall of caravels in the south to buy time for your ships to arrive.

[Woden]

If I go after the ironclad, I don't think I will kill anything else this turn, but there's a chance I'll be able to get the now-weakened caravel next to Linear B if I have a frigate shot to spare. If we can get the ironclad, I think I am all-but-certain to be able to break out in the north next turn, and should at least be able to put up an okay-sized wall of caravels in the south to buy time for your ships to arrive.

This will work if you think you can get it done and it might work to eliminate his northern fleet. 

I should be able to upgrade 8 caravels next turn if I get 2 more pillages and get 160 gold back from you. Then it will probably be a turn of sailing north before I can engage, so expect help in 3 turns (1 to upgrade, 1 to sail, 1 to attack). I am not sure how much damage I can do but I think if you can hurt the northern fleet, we will have a chance against the southern fleet, especially if he sails east of WotW.

I will also have 3 more longboats sailing back to get upgraded over the next 3 turns and I have 2 quads that will get upgraded as we get the niter. If my longboat by Roet Miln survives, I will have Guilds finished on T132, which will be in time to slot the Oligarchy card.