[Spoiler PB62] Vanrober in a new chapter learning from Miguelito

[Miguelito]

Fair enough, China it is then. Seems like a very straightforward game; beeline currency, take CoL / (Constru, Calendar), research machinery, get Monotheism + Vassalage in a GA. Or maybe bureaucracy, depending on how the view is from that marble hill?

[vanrober]

I like the plan!

Lets go for it!!

[vanrober]

can we really be 129746128412460141 tiles far from SD?

[vanrober]

Lets talk a  bit about everyones pick.

Vanrober: Zara of China. We have already discussed a bit the strategy but i would try to rush machinery and colossus if we are neighbouring SD. Otherwise i think getting currency and col makes so much sense. getting TGLH might fit also and some academy could also work. But really our xbows might let us avoid machinery and still try to "rush" someone in the 100s or so with them, maybe they went currency straight and forgot to get anything not melee?

Fabled: Cyrus of Mongolia. I ve tried this in PB54, the problem will be spears in a keshiks rush, they are cheaper and good enough against keshiks. I hope we dont have SD and Fabledas neighbours or we might get dogpiled too early.

Bing Xi Lao: Genghis Khan of Sumeria. Another guy going for an early rush i guess, i guess axes are good enough to defend, but if we get xbows we will defend better.

Tarkeel: Julius Caesar of Spain. I think i said back on PB54 when Nau got spain, and also in the last PBEM, i feel spain needs PRO for citadels, getting them cheap can be really nice, also holding your expansion since your early tech are a bit meh. I guess he is in coast or otherwise he is kind of trolling. Anyway, julius is such a good leader, the best eco trait and one of the best early traits too.

Superdeath: Boudicca of Rome. superdeath wanting to make someone lose fast, i guess he will try to go for the early rush somekind of PB56 come back to my mind again, but im not Celts not PRO, so i feel the fear right now.

Mjmd: Vicky of Mali. Why mjmd didnt you get India??? why!!!!!!. I guess his plan is lets get a good expansion while not ruining the economy so i can kill someone in knights. After PB60 he wants to go back to the strategy that fits better to him. I guess tech of Mali were good for him and thats the main reason of piking it. I guess the forges will boost a bit his fin trait.

Naufragar: Pericles of the Netherlands. I dont really understand this pick. CRE/PHI a good early trait and a really skilled one, i guess he want to get tons of Scientist and start bulbing crazy to get fast to his UU and claiming the seas. but it might be a bit slow. I wouldnt be able to make it work. At least Nau makes really nice threads so in case it works out ill know at least how it was it.

[Miguelito]

Vanrober: Zara of China. We have already discussed a bit the strategy but i would try to rush machinery and colossus if we are neighbouring SD. Otherwise i think getting currency and col makes so much sense. getting TGLH might fit also and some academy could also work. But really our xbows might let us avoid machinery and still try to "rush" someone in the 100s or so with them, maybe they went currency straight and forgot to get anything not melee?

Well the sea wonders depend a bit on the map, right? So far we haven't even seen water yet, and are planning for an inland second city. And from the picks it seems like at least civac and nauf have coastal starts. TGLH usually gets built in the capital (Colossus as well, but there it's more about the tech, so a second city could work).
I think our target wonder here should be MoM, or maybe mids if we have easy stone access. Prepare to build less wonders than in 61 .
I'm somewhat inclined to agree with your machinery rush suggestion in case we border SD, but otoh I don't see yet how the timing would work out. The Praets might come as early as t80, maybe t100. The elegant way to machinery would be a bulb. If we have MC around t70, that would still mean we're bulbing around t105+, unless we also get the mids in the same city somehow. Researching machinery before currency seems like a way to maybe defend but live miserable ever after (maybe unavoidable if we border SD).

Fabled: Cyrus of Mongolia. I ve tried this in PB54, the problem will be spears in a keshiks rush, they are cheaper and good enough against keshiks. I hope we dont have SD and Fabledas neighbours or we might get dogpiled too early.

It's also weaker than injn 54, without cheap gers. Fabled wrote somewhere that he struggles with SP on emperor, and he's completely green with regards to MP. Hopefully this pick gives him enough early strength to get into a position where he can enjoy his game for a while, but it would be a huge surprise if he sees turn 150. I also don't expect him to be able to pull off a successful rush. But of course need to watch him if he's a neighbour. Early OB could be good.

Bing Xi Lao: Genghis Khan of Sumeria. Another guy going for an early rush i guess, i guess axes are good enough to defend, but if we get xbows we will defend better.

Slight modification of civac's PB59 pick. Vultures lose to axes, which is why the textbook says a vulture rush never works. (Until it does. I still can't comprehend how PB59 happened, but I guess mostly it was a huge skill/involvement gap). Really just need to stay half awake. Bing got dealt a bad hand in PB61, so he's probably better than his position there indicates. But the pick is all early game, so just wait until knights.

Tarkeel: Julius Caesar of Spain. I think i said back on PB54 when Nau got spain, and also in the last PBEM, i feel spain needs PRO for citadels, getting them cheap can be really nice, also holding your expansion since your early tech are a bit meh. I guess he is in coast or otherwise he is kind of trolling. Anyway, julius is such a good leader, the best eco trait and one of the best early traits too.

Those guys are very good players and enthusiastic ponderers, they surely have a plan, and they'll know why it doesn't involve Pro.
So apparently they don't care too much for the citadel, or view it as a nice extra (personally I do think it's pretty strong). Spain's techs are unique and allow for religion first on a workboay start, but that isn't really Julius' thing, and also more interesting in a bigger field. We'll know soon enough anyways.
But I think the pick is about the conquistadores, which have not been seen in action yet but are a pretty nice unit (I learned this not too long ago, the thing is that they get defense boni). I think I PB58 Tarkeel was pretty fond of cuirassiers/cavalry. So expect them to aim for Taj and Music. Provably they'll still go the traditional tech path through guilds and will not take gunpowder through education - at least I would have expected Phi in that case. But it's an option for sure, you spend 2-3 GS on that path which is very feasible without Phi as well, and you get Lib while at it.
I agree that Julius is one of the strongest leaders out there. Favourites to win the game, not that we look too shabby.

Superdeath: Boudicca of Rome. superdeath wanting to make someone lose fast, i guess he will try to go for the early rush somekind of PB56 come back to my mind again, but im not Celts not PRO, so i feel the fear right now.

Ya I suppose the "reform superdeath" project is over. I can't see it working because his start will not be as good so as to whip out an undeniable force, but he can surely hurt someone, so let's start away from him. If we do neighbour him, establish a border where we keep him at bay with Cre, watch out for silly snipes, and maybe let him have small wins during expansion so he hates somebody else.
Obviously he's speculating on starting next to a green player, so a lot will depend on who his other neighbours are. If we're lucky we might even get an easy split of somebody with him.

Mjmd: Vicky of Mali. Why mjmd didnt you get India??? why!!!!!!. I guess his plan is lets get a good expansion while not ruining the economy so i can kill someone in knights. After PB60 he wants to go back to the strategy that fits better to him. I guess tech of Mali were good for him and thats the main reason of piking it. I guess the forges will boost a bit his fin trait.

Very vanilla. Might become a problem eventually, but we'll see.

Naufragar: Pericles of the Netherlands. I dont really understand this pick. CRE/PHI a good early trait and a really skilled one, i guess he want to get tons of Scientist and start bulbing crazy to get fast to his UU and claiming the seas. but it might be a bit slow. I wouldnt be able to make it work. At least Nau makes really nice threads so in case it works out ill know at least how it was it.

The thread might as well be renamed naufragar and Rusten bulb Astronomy. Otoh, they could also Lib it. We haven't seen water yet but they evidently expect it to be important. The PB 54 map (Commodore's last one) had no astro land though, and while there was a potential for naval action it was not as central as in other recent games like 57-60. I feel smaller fields generally make ships matter less, even PB60 with its super watery map was decided by ground forces, although Jowy pursued a naval strategy that could have worked if things were a little different.
The upside is that they may give Tarkeel competition for Music and Lib.

[vanrober]

My thought on colossus have been because the Spain and netherlands pick. I guess there is water somewhere and we could try to get it. In pb60 we took tglh in the secondcity in turn 70sh, but still i dont think the plan here is getting many wonders. I think we will have a nice game if SD look for other guy to throw his power away. And if he doesnt we will just die to the knights of other neighbour because we will be whiped and without the gold to be relevant anymore.

[Miguelito]

Your opinion on MoM? Might want to switch Calendar and CoL in the research priority in that case. Of course it also depends on resources we find.

Also the scout move - 2NE, to see everything on that river, or onto the marble for a further look east? Or does it not really matter, because we'll found on the marble either way (in which case the scout could do something like SW-SE).

[vanrober]

I feel a bit weird planing Calendar or CoL this early, actually. I think MoM is nice, but if we are neighbouring SD it wont matter hahahahaha.

About the scout. I thought going to marble, since its hill it might give us some extra info about the tiles south. Going to the forest might makes sense if you feel its more important to see what is in the north of those forests.

If you want to know my opinion, it would be go to the marble site.

[Miguelito]

You make the decisions ,
First question forme though is, is there a scenario where we do not want to settle on mable. Because if not, the scout can just go circling in another direction. In my opinion that is the case, but you might disagree.

Btw regarding the scout movement keep in mind that t25 or 26 we'll get the 3rd ring expansion, so the scout does not necessarily need to cover those tiles and can walk a wider circle.

[vanrober]

You make the decisions ,
First question forme though is,  is there a scenario where we do not want to settle on mable. Because if not,  the scout can just go circling in another direction. In my opinion that is the case,  but you might disagree.

Btw regarding the scout movement keep in mind that t25 or 26 we'll get the 3rd ring expansion,  so the scout does not necessarily need to cover those tiles and can walk a wider circle.

I was thinking on getting a second scout after worker to get more knowledge and ktb. It worked out nice in PB60 and 61. So i agree we can focus on wider circling.

Marble settling is 95%, but i would like to see with the scout first, just in case there is more tundra and ugly stuff. I feel we will get enough info with the 2 scout opening.

Also, i know ill make the move, but i like to know your opinions!