[PB62 Mjmd] Let the Bullgine Run!

[pindicator]

So you're not worried about Van planting a "no" city to grab that floodplains / the 65 odd % chance of holy city city? I do agree its a better expansion focused city spot. Again if it was diplo (or you know a map not with us pressed together like sardines to start), I would be more likely to grab rice as new food with city #2.

It's more that I'm resigned that if he plants in a way that isn't to our benefit we're going to attack him over it at some point. The only 'no' spot that makes sense for him to settle as a 2nd city would be the flood plains 2 east of the sheep - anything else either cripples his own development by not grabbing more any bonus resources or isn't in a spot where he can share the wheat to get the city up faster. And if he settles that location we will be able to hit him from out of the fog with horse archers from the wheat tile (I'm assuming we settle the wheat by the gold ourselves in that scenario and that he chops the tree at some point).

I think due to him settling closer towards us we're never going to be able to have a backline of cities to the west, unless he settles nothing that direction. There don't appear to be any easy ways to block him off, is another way of putting it, while he seems to have a very easy opportunity to block us off - especially since he is CRE. And while I haven't followed vanrober's recent games, I do know from ded-lurking him in 49 that he will aggressively grab land. (He'll also chase wonders, which may give us that horse archer opening.)

Other than the slow terrain to NW I think the other reason to move SW and then probably back down and around is three fold: 1) see if Van has other neighbor that way / other good territory to expand to. 2) circle back around to scout out what Van is doing. 3) I think its very unlikely to have 4 neighbors close, so I think that way is 'safe' (at least one city worth lol). It just wouldn't make sense for total tile count.

Edit: I should note I met Bing somewhere. Wasn't a double move, so was just a flash by somewhere. I'm hoping Vanrobers western neighbor.

I like that scouting plan. It seems we need to know more about vanrober's doings than Tarkeel/civac's at this point.

[Mjmd]

Fair enough. I fully support your logic of "Vanrober if you're stupid we going to have issues". I'll continue as originally planned and settle south of the rice then.

Scouting SW revealed Bing! Bing is 11 tiles from Van (same as Fable). So Van also has at least 3 neighbors, but we are easily the closest (its probable one of these was supposed to be his closer neighbor). Couple of interesting things here though. Wet corn is midway point to him. This makes me convinced the land this map should have is to settle to is in the north. 1) Bing hasn't met Vanrober. We can assume he has been scouting out his likely other close neighbors. Sadly this is to our detriment if he gets aggressive / in a war unless he is unsuccessful. I want him to attack or settle up against Vanrober. Sadly a lot of times people focus on the first thing they see (say a contested floodplain valley to give a non specific example ). 2) Bing has AH and I suspect Fable. 1 person knows BW and I assume that is our Chinese friends. No one else has teched fishing or myst besides Spain which started with them.

[Mjmd]

T21

Horse is on site #3. Pin any change of thoughts? I obviously won't have BW when I settle, but I can always go archery after BW if needed (and might still, discussion later). I'm still fine with settle plan.



Nothing really new at Vans capital other than I suspect I found original spot 9 tiles away (and 9 from Bing). I'm still a little mad at map makers and people who checked it for Van having the option for an uber early game capital on such a tight map.

In other news ice floodplains look cool.

[Mjmd]

Having a ded lurker is great. Pin can do things like remind me we haven't actually seen a 2nd food at Vanrobers capital (other than a floodplains), so while it might be a speedy capital, its probably ok. However, someone did get a broken start; see rival best food!



Pin also talked sense into me about switching EPs from Vanrober at a reasonable point.

There are some weird tiles on this map (found a flood plains plain, which doesn't look at cool as the ice floodplain but is basically a better wet wheat). Definitely going to have to play with tile yield on for a bit lol.

[pindicator]

Looks like that is probably vanrober at Soldiers Best, since we know he went BW first and then just picked up Wheel 2 turns ago according to the graphs. I would assume he's building his first settler right now and going to settle for wherever he saw that Copper pop up since he's been at size 2 since we first saw his capital. That would also fit with not having another good food tile to work.

I was going to guess he's teching Hunting next, considering the Furs in his capital. But then I saw how bad a tile that fur is on (tundra forest), and so if we're lucky he's going Pottery due to all those nearby flood plains.

[pindicator]

Took the liberty of grabbing graphs on t25 when I saw we had both civac & vanrober:













Power especially, as it appears both our neighbors have BW. Vanrober pretty clearly went Wheel after BW, that's a clear 4k jump a handful of turns after the big spike. And it seems our food best of 19 is civac.

[Mjmd]

Thanks Pin. My plan was to put EPs into Bing next (set up so politely hit Civac/Tarkeel at exactly 43 this turn). Figure we will kind of know what is happening east with their graphs so can delay Fable until after Bing.

Scouting has revealed not the best land in-between Van and I to the north as well (which might actually help reduce tension; the midpoint is a non forested tundra deer.....). Plan is to hook back NW to scout that city spot and see what else it up there / keep near there to see where Van is settling.

[Mjmd]

T27

Playing early in the turn after improving a resource. Always best time to show demos!

[pindicator]

What are we naming city #2?

[Mjmd]

What are we naming city #2?

T30

Glad you asked. I do take requests btw. I'm going with more river / land based songs though. This map is not nearly as conducive as PB59 for a sea shanty theme. Luckily I STILL have plenty that fit the bill.



Settled 2nd city. Picture in 2 turns when get BW. Both Fable and Vanrober beat me to 2nd city (Van did at size 2 and is still size 2 so probably 2nd worker). Lion got a lucky hit in vs scout at 3.5% odds, so scout is healing for 1 more turn.

As discussed with Pin, may change micro depending on copper location. Also next tech will probably be based on as well (and whatever micro I work out).