New EitB PBEM

[DaveV]

Correct, I don't want to be primary turn player but can ded-lurk someone. I think Miguelito needed a fill-in for February, if the game starts by then?

[Qgqqqqq]

I'd like to get to work on the map this weekend.

To confirm, we've got 5 players?
* Miguelito
* Brian
* Q
* Auro
* Bing

Dave's commented, but I don't think he's in?

Thanks naufragar. I'll admit I was a little despondent after spending a morning coding updates to *crickets*

So I think the most important thing for us is to all be clear on our expectations for the map.

Before that, I need everyone to agree with the modified Discovery start I mentioned earlier. That's relevant because it sharply changes the kinds of resources that are accessible in the early game. Normally, Gold as a commerce resource will take almost 50 turns to hook up, whereas Incense takes only 20. Similarly, Cow/Pig are also t50ish (or even later) resources, as are fish, and forests take a long time to be choppable.

However, if we're using the starting techs I recommended, then we can start with basically any resources (except hunting) and its much easier to balance between starts. The only things I'd note about capitals would be:

• Unlike other resources, Incense effectively doesn't provide happiness (it only does so with a building)
  
• Lakes are generally to be avoided, as they significantly strengthen one of the religions. Coast should generally be balanced between starts
  
• Because of the early-game strength of farms, try to balance the number of irrigatible tiles between capitals.
  
• In FFH2, the first settler generally starts with 4-moves and increased line of sight. It's up to the mapmaker if that is included or not, but if it is, note that people may move their capital quite a distance, and the effect this will have on balance. Relatedly, in a Discovery-ish start, everyone will have a turn of Anarchy (unless they're spiritual) at the start, so that provides increased incentive to move.
  

As for the general map, I'd repeat that my preference is for generated, lightly edited, with a reasonably large amount of space/distance between players. Note that in FFH2 mid-late-game, distance collapses quickly as summons, commando, and fast-moving units come into play. I would also prefer cylindrical  over toroidial, but that's more aesthetic. I'd prefer somewhat lush, but not as far as torusland/RB can trend. Please, anyone else speak out or forever hold your peace

Assuming that's accepted, the main points to note would be:

• Again, please limit/manage the amount of coast/lakes in the game. Unfortunately, one of the religions is significantly strengthened with a lot of coastline so it's best to manage that. I think my preference would be for a decent coast but significant inland without lakes.
  
• Take note of the terrain features and the impact that can have on civs. Forest is stronger with elves, desert with Malakim, etc. So try to avoid too strong a preference for one or the other.
  
• With regards to strategic resources: (1) everyone should have access to them all, without much difficulty/fighting - unit balance is too dependent on it, (2) the following are strategic, even if they serve other purposes: copper/iron/mithril, incense, reagents, gems, mana, gunpowder, horse. Only marble speeds wonders. (3) this could be controversial, but I think mana should be limited - any more than two should be difficult to achieve for any player.
  
• Relatedly, there are civ-specific strategic resources (e.g. Dwarven cavalry require pigs, elven deer, ivory golems). I think just give a pass after seeing what civs are in the game and make sure theirs are achievable.
  
• If lairs are included, balance their number and distance between players. Note that they are not equivalent - Skeletons are the easiest, Goblins hardest to clear out, and Lizardmen the most dangerous. Goblins also enable strategies for the Orcs.
  
• If unique features are included, try and balance their number. Some do (virtually) nothing (Odio's prison, Ring of Carcer, Pool of Tears), some are generically very powerful (Ygg, Remnants of Patria, Dragon Bones), some are horrible to have around (Guardian's of Pristinus Pass, please do not place this), and others are situationally powerful (Letum Frgius gives big benefits to two civs and Ice mana, Seven Pines can be used to end wars). I suggest only including those that do very little, or the epic lairs (if lairs are allowed).
  

By the by, I suggest (and let's just go with this, if no one says otherwise) that we include lairs, Emperor difficulty, and do not turn Wildlands on.


DaveV, thoughts on no bronze weapons for warriors (before we pull the trigger on this)?

Note that on reflection I believe we should give everyone Hunting to start, to enable equity between the three religions.

Also, as mentioned, I'd like us each to have three leaders to pick from. As such, could a lurker (or Dave), please generate 15 leaders, and then we can assign each person three to choose from?

[DaveV]

DaveV, thoughts on no bronze weapons for warriors (before we pull the trigger on this)?

Big difference for single player at high difficulty levels (when you can't use bronze weapons to offset barb and AI promotion advantage), much less so for MP (I haven't heard any mention of difficulty level?). I vote tentatively in favor; incentivizing tier two units over warrior spam is probably a good thing.

[Miguelito]

Confirming my signup.

• Yes I'll be spotty in february, and of course I'd love to have a delurker, but since I am at least a little experienced, I would give precedence to Bing if he wants a teammate.
  
• I like the modified Discovery start, and follow Q on most points
  
• I liked Immortal difficulty in 54, and would propose to go with it again. Moreso considering we're reducing the early game slog with the advanced start
  
• naufragar, I enjoyed your 54 map, and from my perspective I'd only request to make it somewhat, but not all too much, less spacey.
  
• in favour of the 3 leaders to pick from, which I believe is also what we did in 54?
  

and although I wasn't asked, no bronze weapons on warriors sounds sensible for more variety, although it has some ramifications (eg it's a buff for Doviello and whoever else does need no buildings to get tier 2 units)

[Qgqqqqq]

I would also love a dedlurker (Mig, you have Ginger already ), though I echo Miguelito that Bing can have priority if they want it. I'll note that dedlurker or not, I will need cover in October or else a month-long pause, as I'm not intending on taking my laptop on this trip.

Sorry, I only asked Dave re warriors as he's the only one who's been piping up re balance, and I thought he wouldn't without prompting - happy to hear from anyone

I think I had suggested EMP, but happy to be persuaded by IMM.

[Brian Shanahan]

Firstly, sorry Q on not posting back with views on your changes, had quite a nasty cold last week and my routine was work>lemsip>bed.

On the game settings, I'm happy to roll with your preferences, they are overall a good set.

On dedlurkers, I would like at least one, if to do nothing other than take over from the 4th to the 20th March next and prod me for updates if I start getting lazy.

[RetharSaryon]

Hi! I've been lurking a bit on the PBEM games here on realms beyond and now that a new one is starting up, I'd very much like to join if it's not too late! I haven't played Erebus in the Balance before, but I have played the Magister mod, which I thought was great.

[Qgqqqqq]

Firstly, sorry Q on not posting back with views on your changes, had quite a nasty cold last week and my routine was work>lemsip>bed.

On the game settings, I'm happy to roll with your preferences, they are overall a good set.

On dedlurkers, I would like at least one, if to do nothing other than take over from the 4th to the 20th March next and prod me for updates if I start getting lazy.

Apologies Brian, that was uncalled for! Totally understand real life getting in the way.

RetharSaryon, apologies but it looks like we might already be full up! It sounds like lots of people would love a dedlurker / occasional turnplayer - Brian, Mig or I at least! Personally, I can't promise to report overly much, so you might want to try team up with one of the others. Dedlurking is a great way to learn the ropes.

Alternatively, we could try for 6 players - I wouldn't be opposed, but I would note that six can make it hard to maintain 1t/day.

[RetharSaryon]

Firstly, sorry Q on not posting back with views on your changes, had quite a nasty cold last week and my routine was work>lemsip>bed.

On the game settings, I'm happy to roll with your preferences, they are overall a good set.

On dedlurkers, I would like at least one, if to do nothing other than take over from the 4th to the 20th March next and prod me for updates if I start getting lazy.

Apologies Brian, that was uncalled for! Totally understand real life getting in the way.

RetharSaryon, apologies but it looks like we might already be full up! It sounds like lots of people would love a dedlurker / occasional turnplayer - Brian, Mig or I at least! Personally, I can't promise to report overly much, so you might want to try team up with one of the others. Dedlurking is a great way to learn the ropes.

Alternatively, we could try for 6 players - I wouldn't be opposed, but I would note that six can make it hard to maintain 1t/day.

Alright, let me know if you want a 6th player!

Not entirely sure what deadlurking entails

[Brian Shanahan]

Firstly, sorry Q on not posting back with views on your changes, had quite a nasty cold last week and my routine was work>lemsip>bed.

On the game settings, I'm happy to roll with your preferences, they are overall a good set.

On dedlurkers, I would like at least one, if to do nothing other than take over from the 4th to the 20th March next and prod me for updates if I start getting lazy.

Apologies Brian, that was uncalled for! Totally understand real life getting in the way.

RetharSaryon, apologies but it looks like we might already be full up! It sounds like lots of people would love a dedlurker / occasional turnplayer - Brian, Mig or I at least! Personally, I can't promise to report overly much, so you might want to try team up with one of the others. Dedlurking is a great way to learn the ropes.

Alternatively, we could try for 6 players - I wouldn't be opposed, but I would note that six can make it hard to maintain 1t/day.

Alright, let me know if you want a 6th player!

Not entirely sure what deadlurking entails

You'd be a dedicated lurker to one of the players here. Basicly you'd offer gameplay advice, thoughts, possibly be a backup turn player and sim openings &c. In return you'd be expected not to look at what other players are posting in their threads and definitely would be expected not to reveal any info about other players' games. We've a strong tradition here of open player threads without other players taking advantage.