(September 16th, 2024, 08:31)yuris125 Wrote: Do we have some kind of general consensus on how long fish-for-fish deals are supposed to last? Assume they're not indefinite?
Everybody has their own interpretation. Some abide by a strict 10t, while others use them to "please move your forces away so I can invade." Personally I use them to signal "I currently have no hostile intentions," which is sort of undefined. It also depends on the context of what else is in the message. I am kind of wary of having to spam the deal every 10 turns, which is the kind of thing that will make me consider invading you just to make it stop.
I definitely overestimated how much income I could get from wealth, I'm building it all over the place now, and it's barely enough to finish Feudalism
However, with the sheep for sheep signal with Commodore being 5 turns ago, and him researching CoL, he could be going for maces himself. So it is essential I get my unique longbows by T90
Pindicator could contest the desert gold spot, his axe next to it suggests he has at least some interest. But right now I'm not ready to settle it, and I won't cry too hard if I lose it
Got to Civil Service bulb as planned and took the anarchy to revolt to bureau. Was tempted to revolt to serfdom as well, but there are still too many relatively new cities which need infrastructure whips. The potential need to whip emergency longbows made switching out of slavery even less worthwhile
Pindicator offered open borders immediately after I researched Alphabet, and after some hesitation I decided to accept. I will not be opening borders with Commodore, who has Great Lighthouse and needs no help to win the game, and while the current plan does include an attack on Pindicator, it is not imminent, and I might as well benefit from international trade. And, well, maybe I can reach new land via open borders and can revert to the original plan of allying with Pindicator against Commodore
I'm getting an idea of Pindicator's shape of the land
Doesn't look like he actually grabbed that much territory on the mainland, but he did have islands to expand to. Although the island to the north of the peninsula I intend to target is currently held by the barbs
Noteworthy, there's a stack of 4 catapults on the copper tile I can see this turn. I see evidence of military build-up throughout his land, and it doesn't look like a defensive build-up
I don't feel good about my plan to attack him, if there was another option I would take it. But I can't think of one. I am keeping up in score with others (except Commodore) for now, but most of my cities are hitting the cap - more on this in the T100 update. Sitting back and trying to develop peacefully accomplishes nothing. And I don't see a way to make substantial gains vs Commodore. It is questionable whether I will be able to make significant gains vs Pindicator, consolidate them, and catch up to Commodore - frankly, attacking him could well speed up Commodore's runaway victory, and Pindicator and I staying allied could be a better chance of holding Commodore back. But in the current game state, that feels like playing to survive
I'm not committing to anything just yet; If I can find a source of horses I can claim, even very far offshore, that will help tremendously. But for now, the general plan is to finish Machinery (should be in 4 turns), start building maces, pick up Theology / Paper / Education, switch to Vassalage / Theocracy for 3-move galleys, and see what I can do with them
Border with Commodore is fairly peaceful for now, the other turn he had an unprotected worker chopping next to my units, now I'm doing the same building a cottage
He also sent an OB offer; I declined, then thought that maybe I could ask for horses from him for OB - he does have spare. Decided against it for now, I don't even have HBR and wouldn't have anything to do with the horses if he accepted. But the idea is in the back of my mind
Also pictured, a freshly spawned barb city. Not sure what the poor barbs eat. In any case, this turned into an XP farm for Commodore (probably his maces) - the number of archers in the city has been going down every turn
It is T100, and Pindicator wants a military alliance (at least that's how I interpret his message)
Now, as per yesterday's post, I do think that Pindicator and me joining forces vs Commodore is the best of chance of stopping him from running away with the game. With a 3-player continent, we have to maintain the balance of power; if I were to attack Pindicator, even were I to succeed in the war, I would find myself 1v1 against a significantly stronger empire. The problem is, hard as I try, I cannot find a viable route of attack. Across almost the entire continent, we're separated by the desert, which I would struggle to cross without horses. Really the only realistic path of attack is here in the south
And even here, the options are limited. The only realistic target is Horserace Bet, which I can attack with 1-movers + cats, maybe even take it if I kill the stack on the forested hill (3 axes + spear at present). I'm pretty sure he will be able to muster enough defence for any cities deeper into his territory. Naval attack is even less realistic, Big Six Wheel is potentially vulnerable from the sea, but after that I would have nowhere to go, with the ice blocking the way
The other complication is here
The land to Pindicator's northeast is still unclaimed, and I want it. Problem is, it is only reachable through Pindicator's territory. If he doesn't want me to get there, all he needs to do is cancel OB. Even if he does let me get there, and cancels OB later, I will lose trade connection. And the real problem is, even if he does accept me claiming this land, he almost certainly won't like it - this may ruin the chance of our cooperation. Finally, I would have to commit at least a portion of my units to fight off the barbs on that land, and with power ratings as they are now, this would lower the chances of a successful military collaboration
The final problem is, Pindicator's message doesn't include any kind of timeline, so it seems to be a feeler - I can't know if he has a concrete plan of attack. I did see plenty of military unit movement in his territory which suggested his attack on Commodore is coming sooner rather than later. It's possible his message is merely aimed to check I'm not going to join forces with Commodore if he goes ahead with the attack. That's definitely something I can subscribe to - and perhaps he's not expecting more than that, he can see the power ratings as well after all
In the end, the message I signalled back is Pindicator's iron + horse for my iron. Hopefully this draws his attention to my lack of horses (in case he didn't notice). The intended meaning is "I will support your attack as much as I can, but don't expect much"
Oh, there's one more issue with all this, and that's the tech choice after Machinery. If I am to contribute to a joint attack on Commodore, I need to go for Construction and Engineering. If not, going for Optics would be a lot more beneficial, so that I can reach overseas lands. RTR caravels are very inefficient transports, they only have 1 unit capacity and move across the ocean at galley speed. But at least they can take any units, and don't obsolete my Colossus
This is all I'm going to get on the starting continent, I see no more viable city spots. And as I said in the post yesterday, there's not much room for growth of existing cities either, most viable tiles are already being worked. That's why I've been trying so hard for the last 20 turns to figure out options for futher expansion
Cities
Port Rando
The city can grow to size 17, but is out of tiles - any new citizens will be specialists
Chance Harbor
City is capped. Maybe one day I will replace mines with windmills, and it will allow it to grow another size - but this is unlikely to happen soon
Aachen
Here I forgot to build a forge - a silly mistake. This city is also pretty much capped
Prague
Heavily specced into production, this city is not quite capped - it can grow a size by working two grassland workshops instead of a plains hill mine. Which would be hammer neutral right now, but still worth doing in preparation for workshops getting stronger as the game progresses. This city was a production powerhouse in the early game, but never had much potential
Nuremberg
This city will be miserable once Colossus obsoletes, but it does have some production potential. The forest is being lumbermilled right now, and then it can pick up two plains hill mines for some ok hammers
Vienna
Another middling city which won't have many good tiles after Colossus obsoletes. Will get a watermill on the plains river tile, other than that it's just coast and specialists
Mainz
Still work in progress, but probably the best city in the south. Might be the Forbidden Palace city, although I don't struggle with maintenance too much as rathauses are coming online, and Forbidden Palace may be best saved for overseas cities - if I can settle any
Ulm
Very much work in progress. It can still be argued that this city would've been better of 1S, so that it could utilise the fish 2SE. But I think having access to the sheep at Mainz for a faster start, as well as shorter road connection, made it a worthwhile trade-off. Does have some potential, although it mostly comes from Colossus coast. Tundra forests could be decent with lumber mills, but for now they would merely be 0/3/1 tiles, and building improvements on the border with Commodore for tiles like this doesn't seem worthwhile
Augsburg
With the jungle chopped, this is growing into a pretty decent city - although, again, a lot of its power comes from Colossus coast
Florence
Needs the jungle chopped and farmed, which would also irrigate the rice. Then it can work some plains hill mines, and, yep, more Colosuss coast
Heretic Gaol
This city's whole purpose is mining the iron - an appropriate punishment for heretics, I think. It will grow to size 6 by working two plains farms; I didn't even plan to build a granary here, but growing from size 5 to 6 without one at +2 food surplus would be too miserable
Hell-on-Earth
The last and most definitely the least of my cities, this one is an even more miserable mining settlement. Before the borders popped, the best tile it could work was an improved plains hill - which it did, while the workers were busy with a more important task of building a road and connecting the gold. This city will cap at size 5, working the oasis, a grassland farm, a lumbermill, the gold, and a plains hill mine. Annoyingly, this city needs a lot more investment than Heretic Gaol: unlike that city, here I cannot just build hammer-boosting buildings and leave it be. It is the most advanced outpost on the route towards Commodore, so it needs walls, and gold also means it wants at least a library
Demos
They're not good by any account, but I would say they're decent, considering - I am kinda sorta competitive everywhere, even in crop yield. Again, the biggest concern is that I don't see the numbers staying competitive in 50 turns, unless I find a way to expand further
Graphs - power looks bad, but I'm waiting on Machinery before working on substantial unit production. Everything else pretty much confirms what the demos show
(September 27th, 2024, 19:20)yuris125 Wrote: The land to Pindicator's northeast is still unclaimed, and I want it. Problem is, it is only reachable through Pindicator's territory. If he doesn't want me to get there, all he needs to do is cancel OB. Even if he does let me get there, and cancels OB later, I will lose trade connection.
I don't think you lose trade connection in that case? Only hostile territory blocks it. You can trade between any cities (yours or an OB partner) through neutral non-OB territory as long as you have unfogged it. I think. (Not that that likely changes your thoughts on reaching that area anyway.)
Oh - it does change things if territory being non-hostile is enough
I finally found horses
And it looks like Pindicator is ready to start claiming that continent, at least that's what the settler in this stack suggests, as there's no room in this direction for a city on the starting continent (which I might just call mainland because it's shorter)
Both these developments, along with closed borders not breaking trade connections, strongly push me towards Optics, so that I can claim at least a part of that continent, including the horse source
