[SPOILER] Pacal II of Byzantium - Tredje

[Tredje]

Diplomatic update:

GingerEagle reached my borders with his exploring Warrior and we have exchanged pleasantries. He offered me a NAP until turn 100, which I accepted. I think the chances of us having a conflict soon is close to 0, so it really doesn't matter either way.

[Tredje]

Last turn I checked the trade screen and discovered that GingerEagle only has 3 cities, while me, Kyan and Nakor/Gaspar all have 6. I assume that he is the one trailing behind in GNP (only 25) as well, and it seems to me that his chances of winning the game are almost gone already. I chatted with him a bit on Google Chat last night, and among other things he asked me if I would leave the Pyramids for him. I have no intention of building them, but in my response I will phrase it in a way that makes it seem as if I am doing him a favor. To be honest, I think it is a poor decision on his part to build the Pyramids. The hammer investment is quite big, and I think he would be better off by getting more Settlers and Workers instead. Gingereagle also mentioned that he shares a border with both Kyan and Nakor/Gaspar. As of right now I view him as someone that could possibly slow down my tougher competitors' expanding by posing a military threat. Hopefully he doesn't fall too far behind economically, as that would benefit his immediate neighbors more than it does me.

[Tredje]

Turn 62 update:

Alright. As you may or may not know I have been running 0% science for a couple of turns in anticipation of my Great Scientist. I managed to get the Academy built by 520 BC, which to me is an acceptable date. Until now only one other civ has gotten a GS, and that was super early. With my Academy I could turn my slider back on, and I am now teching quite fast. Here is a screenshot of my GNP before the Academy:



And here is a screenshot of my GNP after the Academy:



Now, the figure is not as impressive as it may look, since I know that my GNP is inflated by my production of culture. I have founded 3 religions and built 3 Wonders, to which I must add monuments, an Academy, religion in one extra city and libraries. I also know that Kyan is running a low slider at the moment (0% probably), and that he would not be too far behind my number. Still I think it is safe to say that I am ahead of most of my competition in research potential. My main contributor to this high number is my capital Aleph. I have included a screenshot of it. Next turn I will chop a Forge and let it grow to size 10, which will enable it to work three more cottages.



My current plan is to get forges up in my four core cities and grow them to the happy cap working cottages (except my production-city that is getting more mines). I will settle my seventh city in two turns, and I intend to keep expanding. Also note that the Hanging Gardens were built this turn, and I am happy that it wasn't Kyan who got it.

[Tredje]

As posted in the Organizing Thread I am unable to access these forums from home, which means less updates and no screenshots until that gets fixed.

As for the game I am now 4 turns from CS. After that I will research Monarchy and do a double civic switch. If the Great Person out of Gimel is anything but a Great Prophet I might do a Golden Age and switch to Hinduism as well. If it is a Great Prophet I will build the Hindu shrine. I have settled my 7th city Zayin to the southeast. There is tons of available land around the lakes to the east, so after getting a couple of cities strategically placed in the west (hills > optimal location) I think that will be my main route of expansion.

Nakor/Gaspar now have 7 cities, Kyan has 6 and GingerEagle has 4. Malakai reached me with a Scout this turn, but I forgot to check his city count.

[Tredje]

RB is working for me again. Phew, I'll tell you, that was a rough 24 hours...

I had a longer chat with Gaspar yesterday. Let me begin by stating that we get along very well, I think, which makes diplomacy easier. A couple of things came up. 1) I offered them a NAP, without mentioning specifics. He is discussing the offer with Nakor at the moment. 2) He suggested we collaborate more closely, to avoid wasting resources/hammers. I am not against this form of cooperation. I think it will mostly concern Wonders, and possibly some tech choices. Shouldn't hamper me much. 3) He implied that Kyan has been trying to paint me as the big threat in this game. Now, I can't be sure if this is true or not, but let us suppose it is. In my mind me and him are in front. It is only natural that we should be each other's worst enemies. At this point I'm not going to overreact, but I do need to make sure that I don't find myself on the receiving end of a dogpile.

So, my main objective right now is to establish a closer bond with Nakor/Gaspar. There are a few reasons. 1) The main reason is that we will share long borders both in the north and south. If I can secure those two fronts, my position will be more secure. 2) Nakor/Gaspar have been expanding quite well, but they are behind me and Kyan in all categories. They are not that strong, but they aren't on only 4 cities like GingerEagle and Malakai. This is the reason why I am not bothering much with GE/Malakai at the moment. In other words, Nakor/Gaspar are not strong enough to be feared (yet), but strong enough not to be ignored. And like I said, Kyan is the biggest threat at the moment, so if I can ensure that Nakor/Gaspar are closer to me than him, that will be valuable. Besides, Nakor/Gaspar seems to have something against India (who doesn't?), and I hope that will play to my advantage.

[Tredje]

In the interest of my lurkers (I hope there are some at least) I decided to add a couple of screenshots concerning my plans of future expansion. The areas marked by red circles are those I am most interested in securing for myself. I don't expect to get all of them (especially in the South and the West), but most of them I do hope to get. As of right now S and W definitely have higher priorities, since 1) Kyan and Nakor/Gaspar might grab the locations if I don't, and 2) the land there is really good. I particularly would like to secure the Incense to the SW. I intend to put all of my new cities in the South and West on hills, as they will be border cities. As you can see the East is still largely open, and I might even venture beyond the lakes if GingerEagle doesn't get moving. But that is speculating far into the future. I didn't include the SouthEast because, truth be told, I haven't explored much in that direction yet. Here are the screenshots:

[Mardoc]

In the interest of my lurkers (I hope there are some at least)

Yep, we're around and interested. Can't speak for anyone else, but I stay quiet for fear of spoilers, not for lack of interest .

I'm glad you posted those shots - I hadn't really grasped that you're already on the borders with your neighbors.

[Tredje]

Yep, we're around and interested. Can't speak for anyone else, but I stay quiet for fear of spoilers, not for lack of interest .

I'm glad you posted those shots - I hadn't really grasped that you're already on the borders with your neighbors.

I'm happy to hear that.

Yes, borders are creeping closer, but from my perspective it is about time. We really started far away from each other, meaning there was no real interaction for a very long time. Look at it this way: If I can settle all my red circles, which I might be able to, I will be up to 16 cities. I can then add 2-5-filler cities and there will probably be available land to the east. How often do you get to ~20 cities peacefully in a normal game? I am usually happy if I manage to secure 7-8 cities peacefully.

And I'm not in a unique position. Unless we see some early wars I expect everyone to get to ~15 cities further into the game. Add to this that most of the avaliable land is really good. All this makes me not look forward to the later stages of the game. Stacks will be monstrously big, and the players getting ahead will get 30->40 cities sooner or later. Personally I prefer maps where a player can only get <10 cities peacefully, where the loss of a city or two has a significant impact, where good city spots are harder to find/utilize and where you don't have behemoths slugging it out against each other in the end.

I guess that ended up as a rant. To be honest I am not critizising the map maker, because the map is interesting. I just happen to find the earlier parts of the game more fun, and I prefer limited production/resources/armies to massive production/resources/armies. Still, I am not going to let that stop me from trying to take this game home.

[Tredje]

Two days ago I had a chat with Gaspar where I proposed a NAP. My reasoning was that I am ahead, and with my South/North borders secure I can use that advantage to get even further ahead.

Today I agreed with Nakor on a NAP until Turn 105. That is 40 turns, which I thought was a whole lot. Of course, they are England, so they want to get to the later stages of the game. I accepted because of 3 reasons:

• 1: With this NAP in place the only real threat is Kyan. With the safety gained I can expand vigorously.
  
• 2: Although 40 turns is a lot, I'm not too scared of England later. I should be in a superior position, and the Redcoat is not that powerful on a map like this. By the time they have Redcoats I should be very close to Infantry. I also think that I could hit them with Cataphracts when the NAP expires. They shouldn't have Redcoats by then.
  
• 3: The land to the East is wide open. Hopefully I can utilize 40 turns of NAP better than they can.
  

Included in the NAP is an agreement regarding the land between us. There are 18 tiles between our two capitals. We divided it so that I get 9 tiles from my capital, they get 9 tiles from theirs. A city can be settled as far away as 7 tiles from the capital (meaning its second ring is on the 9th tile.) I agreed to this because, as I said earlier, the East is open. Now I can settle my cities against Kyan and then move to the East. The North and South I can settle at my own leisure.

We also discussed Wonders/Techs, and this is where I think I made a mistake. With the NAP in place I should have teched CS -> Monarchy -> Calendar. But I agreed to let them have the MoM, for no good reason. I am not used to these diplomatic maneuverings, and I do make mistakes. MoM is a really good Wonder on this map because when you have lots of cities Golden Ages are even more powerful. Ah well.

Nakor revealed that they are teching CoL, whereupon they will tech IW and then CS. I declared that I would have CS soon and then Monarchy. They are going to see me make the switch anyway, so I figure that this particular part went in my favor. Nakor asked why I teched Archery, and to be honest I don't remember. I think I did it just in case. He also said that Archery makes barbs stronger, which is news to me. Great if it does, seeing as I have the GW. When discussing techs I really would have liked to be able to discern what other people are teching, but that is a skill I haven't acquired yet.

So there you have it. Unless Kyan plans something the next 40 turns should be peaceful expansion. I am, however, a bit suspicious since Kyan hasn't expanded in a while and his Food number is growing. He could be preparing to whip himself an army. Or he simply has bigger cities with forges etc. If I do start to notice his Power number growing, I will have to tech Construction and possibly another Military tech.

[Tredje]

Turn 67 (I think):

CS is done, but I am almost out of gold. I might have to save up for a couple of turns before teching Monarchy. Hopefully I can get it in 5 turns; I want to switch to Bureaucracy/HR asap.