[SPOILERS] The Wild Card

[The Black Sword]

but turns out you forgot to end the turn in your excitement

Er, whoops.

Here's the sandbox I've been using, it's from just after the worker finishes. I've updated the terrain for the coasts where our next cities might go, haven't bothered with inland much yet.

The rice isn't looking promising:

[The Black Sword]

Yeah, there's no other resources with the rice, so no options there.

Hunting came in, I set research on Mining. Worker is ready in 2 turns.

A choice needs to be made on our second city, originally I liked the red dot, just picking up the clam, now I think I favour blue dot in the north slightly. Blue dot is 2 turns extra travel time, but fish is better than clam and cows are great at size 2. I think the time between cities 2 and 3 is long enough for it to catch up.

Either way, I think we should revolt to Hinduism when the settler is moving. If we go for the north we can revolt to slavery also. However Monotheism is very close after we get Priesthood for the oracle and I don't think we would have any pressing techs at that stage. We could double revolt to slavery and OR and then double whip in Granaries, necessary for efficient slaving anyway, at that stage.

With blue dot, I think we can build the oracle T54. The T51 I previously posted was a bit optimistic, BW should definitely go before masonry, to find copper alone I think, and I didn't revolt to Hindu in that sim, so looking at T53 probably with red dot. Btw, instead of doing research, I was lucky enough to find this post by Ceiliazul in Sisu's spoiler thread:

Pitboss Oracle times
pitboss 4 - t54 (Luddite)
pitboss 5 - t68 (Scooter/Dazed)
pitboss 7 - t64 (Lewwyn)
pitboss 8 - t56 (Serdoa)
pitboss 9 - t90! (Cornflakes)

So, I think oracle is reasonably safe either way.

I think for blue dot, we need to build a fishing boat before the settler, whereas red dot could build it's own, the marble mine giving 8h with expansive. Another potential problem with blue is if we reveal more fish in the north that would be orphaned, in which case, we would probably still have time to switch to red dot.

What do you think Jowy, they both feel very close to me?

[Jowy]

Well I could use the sandbox file to get myself more familiar with the situation :P I think you forgot to attach it to your second to last post. I prefer settling red first because it can share some tiles with the capital and it's closer. If we want to settle blue, which is okay too, we'll at least need to scout the corner to make sure we know the exact tile to settle on. In general I want to get Oracle as soon as we can without any monumental sacrifices. Even though T54 feels safe, I would rather get it a bit earlier if that doesn't drag us down considerably.

[The Black Sword]

I'm not sure what happened with that attachment, I remember downloading it myself for my laptop. Anyway here you go.

Our warrior is 7 turns away from scouting out the north btw, assuming we're not going to need him for military police in the meantime, which I doubt.

[Jowy]

Got it. Will test stuff tomorrow. What was the exact path you had in mind for our Oracle endeavor? For comparison purposes..

[The Black Sword]

Red dot:
Capital: settler -> Grow to size 5 on warrior -> 2 workers -> grow to 6 on another warrior, 1t into Granary also -> Settler
City 2: WB using marble -> (marble back to capital for a while) grow to size 2 on clams-> (work marble+clams) worker -> WB
Workers->4 mines, spare turns into roads, then change marble to quarry and finish the chop.

I think that's T54 as well. I'm not sure we can get below that and still grow to size 6 on useful tiles because the size 6 tile for the capital is a forested hill, which is very expensive in worker turns. If we're not growing to size 6 though, we can delay that Hindu revolt until the second settler and should be able to get the T51 I previously mentioned.

I'd have to double check what I did for blue dot. WB -> settler in the capital. Revolt to Hindu as settler moves. Then blue dot grows to size 2 and builds a settler on fish+cows and worker goes back south. Capital grows to size 6, getting a WB and warriors out, pausing for workers at sizes 4,5 and 6.

We can also revolt to slavery and whip in the workers, staying at size 5 most of the time.

Tech: BW->pottery->masonry->Priesthood.

[The Black Sword]

Ok, decision to be made this turn. End result of my favourite 2 runs, blue and red.

Red, EOT51:

No revolts yet. Oracle due EOT, and capital grows to size 6 with 0 food surplus also.

Unhappy doesn't matter because settler is next build, 34/100 into it already. Due T56, could speed it up by a turn with a chop. Can revolt when it's finished, probably 1 turn travel time. Working 2 ph mines, 2 fish+pigs.

Red dot is size 2, 6/24 food, just finished the WB EOT50, not sure what to build next, probably worker. Working clams+marble quarry.

Have 3 workers, 3 warriors and WB previously mentioned. Just finished Priesthood with no overflow. 3 forests chopped around the capital.

Blue, EOT54:

Have already revolted to Hindu, Oracle due EOT.

Capital: size 6, 13/32 food. Probably building a worker next. 2 forests chopped. Working 2 fish+pigs, 2 ph mines+ marble quarry.

Blue dot: size 2, 9/24 food. 1 forest chopped. Settler due T55, with no travel time before founding. Also 6/15 into warrior.

Have 3 workers, 3 warriors and WB from capital.

I didn't record the beakers unfortunately, but it would be slightly behind the red dot here.


So, very similar tbh. Blue being slightly ahead in food hammers I think and slightly behind the research. But 3 turns earlier Oracle is probably worth that inconvenience. Also, if we reveal more seafood in the north, that could mess with blue dot in a bad way. So, I've flipped again, I prefer red dot. I haven't done anything in game yet though.

Red dot path:
As before, but without the revolution. At size 4 I work a 2/1 forest then a 1/2 forest. After finishing the workers at the capital I almost complete a warrior(12/15), then put turns into a settler, before finishing the warrior(21/15) for oracle overflow. Oracle gets (6+9+60)x2 =150h on T51 and the capital grows to size 6 EOT also.

Blue dot:
Again, mostly as described. Blue dot itself has 1 turn at size 2 without improved cows, which I don't put into a settler since it wouldn't speed it up any. Capital gets a warrior and most of a WB out growing to size 5 after the worker. It builds another worker at size 5. Then builds a warrior for maximum overflow(11h) before Priesthood comes in. Spends 2 turns at size 6 building the oracle(12x2=24h), puts 2 chops in on the second turn(40h).

I think I've had enough of looking at this start for a while, I really don't want to know how many turns I tried it!

[Jowy]

I think I've had enough of looking at this start for a while, I really don't want to know how many turns I tried it!

Sounds like you've put a ton of time into this, so I doubt I'll find anything to improve upon. Red is the way to go, let's do it.

[The Black Sword]

K, I set Jetboy to a settler then. Worker will go Pigs -> finish road to red dot -> mine marble.

[The Black Sword]

We had 3rd ring borders pop last turn:


So, no seafood to the East, and a bit more of a look at our dry little island. Getting a scouting workboat to circle that and then follow the southern coast would be nice. There are also a lot of lions around, our warrior ran into another this turn:



Hopefully he'll fare better than the scout.

We also got dtay's graphs a few turns ago:





Looks like a worker(s) opening.