On that note, though, any thoughts on other players or their choices so far? I'm planning on seeing if I can make a post about it before the game proper.
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Bunbunmaru News Reports In! (Kuro Spoiler Thread)
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November 6th, 2013, 09:35
(This post was last modified: November 6th, 2013, 09:39 by WilliamLP.)
Roosevelt I guess is maybe the best Industrious leader left? I don't get it. The reasoning is probably that there's no stone or marble so everyone is on equal footing with wonders, so Industrious will dominate the wonder game.
I don't know though. Having no stone or marble seems like it might just weaken the wonders. Is stoneless Pyramids or Great Library or marbleless Oracle really that good an investment, even with +50%? Edit: Oh, it's 2metra and he has Sumeria, so he wants Organized to spam Ziggurats.
I'll try a run-down of who got the best of the picks once the cycle is finished, for fun. Honestly I don't think we came out very high, but it's because of taking a calculated risk (that Zara would fall through) and wanting to play a style that you find more interesting and fun. I can totally respect that.
I think Roosevelt of Sumeria is quite a weak combination for having the number 4 pick! 2metraninja could have had Sury or Mansa, instead of being third in line for wonder races. I think Organized Sumeria is overrated - Sumeria already gets 30 hammers off of a courthouse, so Org gives them 45 hammers off, instead of 60 hammers off. In a way that's actually an anti-synergy since every city (except maybe the capital) gets a courthouse eventually anyway. Sury saves 60 hammers flat in new cities (if you would have built a monument), and growth is much faster. (November 6th, 2013, 22:23)WilliamLP Wrote: I'll try a run-down of who got the best of the picks once the cycle is finished, for fun. Honestly I don't think we came out very high, but it's because of taking a calculated risk (that Zara would fall through) and wanting to play a style that you find more interesting and fun. I can totally respect that. I would definitely rather have Sury + Someone in his shoes than Sumeria, for sure. It doesn't hurt I value Sury really high, too. We probably didn't get the best selection, but I think that we got a solid combo we can win with, and if Zara would have fallen to us we'd be up there. Plus, Seven/Krill took a big risk on Zulu first (banking that Ragnar would fall to them, though Shaka ain't bad) and it ended up paying off since nobody wanted Rome, so I don't think there was much we could do (I'm not sure any combo we had available is better than Ragnar of Zulu? Sury of Persia is also pretty good...though I'd say we are top 5 in terms of leader-civ combos picked).
November 7th, 2013, 14:42
(This post was last modified: November 7th, 2013, 14:45 by WilliamLP.)
Well, I think I know which team I would not want to start next to! Krill and 7's gameplan doesn't appear to be too subtle.
Here's whose results I like, in order. I'm not accounting for skill level at all, just whose combinations I think are objectively stronger, ignoring pick order. 1. Dhalphir & Hashoosh - Mansa Musa of the Ottomans (FIN, SPI, Agri, Wheel, Janisary, Hammam). A couple of extremely bright newcomers with a "try hard" pick. I love this result. Arguably the best traits possible and the best techs possible in terms of beaker count. Jans are really useful for fighting a backward opponent and even otherwise. Hammam isn't great but has its uses if you have one or two really large cities you get health and happiness in a 2-for-1. 2. Mikehendi - Elizabeth of France (FIN, PHI, Agri, Wheel, Musketeer, Salon). I think Elizabeth is underrated and may be at least tied for the best leader not banned in this game. (You can go back in time for Sullla and Speaker's analysis of the PB2 pre-game.) Again I really like Agri / Wheel starts. The unique unit is really good. Personally I'd prefer to play this above all other picks. (Mainly because even thinking about trying to optimize a large empire for Spiritual makes my head tired.) 3. wetbandit - Hannibal of Egypt (FIN, CHA, Agri, Wheel, War Chariot, Obelisk). I love Egypt and the War Chariot can be a game-changer sometimes. I think CHA can be underrated. 4. Retep - Mehmed of Carthage (EXP, ORG, Fishing, Mining, Numidian Cavalry, Cothon). He has synergy for cheap Cothons, which I think is a very good building. He has a seafood start presumably, and ORG gives cheap lighthouses too. The UU is very interesting and could be very dangerous in an early rush. I like this pick a lot. 5. Jowy - Suryavarman II of Persia (EXP, CRE, Agri, Hunting, Immortal, Apothecary). Sury is really fun to play. The techs are ok, suggesting they might have an animal. I don't think the Immortal is any good in multi-player unless you start next to someone with no metal. 6. Gavagai - Darius I of Aztecs (FIN, ORG, Hunting, Myst, Jaguar, Altar). I like the leader a lot but the techs are bad. They probably wanted synergy with ORG and altars, and maybe an early religion. I don't like Aztecs much - I'm not sold on the altar's feature being that good. Right when I get courthouses tends to be the time when I want to start slowing down whips to grow cities, not doing more of them. 7. Kuro - Isabella of China (EXP, SPI, Agriculture, Mining, Chok, Pavillion). Fun factor is very high, start will be very good, techs are great. Can we keep up with the FIN and ORG teams after the midgame is a question. I put us above a couple of the IND picks because I question its value in this game. I hope we get to use Choks in a significant way - they're one of the most unique unique units. 8. Zaldax - Huanya Capac of Byzantium (FIN, IND, Wheel, Myst, Cataphracts, Hippodrome). Terrible techs, a great UU if you can get there. They may have seen they could be only the second civ with Myst and are going for a religion. But without a worker tech they can't afford to get it first. Again I suspect IND is being overvalued in this game. 9. Gaspar/Noble - Bismarck of Mali (EXP, IND, Wheel, Mining, Skirmisher, Mint). They have synergy with the mint, but the effect is pretty minor. Skirms can be good to stop from being an early rush target but you don't usually get archery very quickly in multiplayer unless you're going to die. 10. Goreripper - Zara Yaqob of Greece (CRE, ORG, Fishing, Hunting, Phalanx, Odeon). I don't like the techs much even with a seafood start. Zara is a good leader, not top tier. I do like the Phalanx. 11. 2metraninja - Roosevelt of Sumeria (IND, ORG, Agri, Wheel, Vulture, Zigg). It's ok, techs are good, the ability to get down really cheap courhouses earlier than everyone is nice. There's nothing to speed the opening up. I'm not convinced the Vulture isn't worse than an axe. 12. Sevenspirits/Krill - Montezuma of Zulu (AGG, SPI, Agri, Hunting, Impi, Ikhanda). I don't think this is a competitive pick, but they could think they're so strong they can win with it anyway. I actually thought they might go with Hammurabi (AGG / ORG) for maximum city sprawl! They have nothing that speeds early city growth.
Do you have thoughts on the field yourself?
The first tier is obviously Seven and Krill. I'm not sure how involved Krill will be, with PB15 on his plate, but they're both among the very best players. I don't insult anyone by saying this game is a little like a greens game. I think they didn't want another situation like PB12 so they're choosing to handicap themselves a little bit. I don't know that much about the rest of the field. NobleHelium is a micromanagement genius and, shall we say, rather obsessive about it. Dhal and Hashoosh are relatively new but really bright gamers who are going to put a lot of effort into this game, I feel. If the number one team wouldn't want to start next to is Seven and Krill, number two is Retep. He's a little mysterious and I believe quite ruthless. |