(December 19th, 2018, 17:49)Grotsnot Wrote: Ah, dammit! I was using the ever-scientific CK2 map and mistook Korsun for the un-Anglicized form of Cherson
It's been a pain to find something that's accurate AND recognizable. Dnipro looked like the best modern fit but didn't ring a bell. I know, I know: my knowledge of Easern European geography is basically limited to Paradox maps, so what do I know? But still, wanted to find something that felt like a stronger "click". That being the wrong location for Cherson explains why that one did click
Upon further review, I see Zaporizhia as an option. Is that satisfactory?
(alternatively, rename it Korsun )
Yeah but anachronistic as all hell. The only major Scandinavian settlement in the area would be Kiev. And that's not that close.
PS I expect to see a Theodoro at some stage.
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
Greetings lurkers! I know I'm behind on reports, but I'm on holiday vacation now and can pretty safely say I'll be caught up after Christmas
But for right now we need your help.
Small preview: we just converted to Catholicism this turn (23). And in some single player test games, we discovered something.
You see, in Civ 6, the cities' food acts like it is tracked as a total figure, not calculated as a separate food box per population. So when a city starves, it winds up very close to re-growing again.
For a bogus numbers example, say pop 2 is at 10 food and pop 3 is at 25. Assume a city is at pop 2 and 1/15 of the way to 3. If they starve by 2/turn, they will next turn be at 9/10.
Arguably kinda nifty for SP noobs, get punished less for starving (and honestly I have no idea how this works in previous Civs, I never starved enough to pay attention). Buuuut this matters in a big way for Vikings. Check Religion scoring:
+50VP per population added. NOT per total pop. So you gain points when increasing but do not lose points when decreasing (the usual case for this would be building a settler).
See where this is going? If you straddle the line between pop N and N+1 you can exploit a starvation-growth cycle to get +50 VP every 2 turns
For a demonstration, watch Novgorod. There's some other growths in the rest of the empire making the numbers less painfully obvious, but it all adds up correctly
Start at 2350. The UI didn't update but I set Novogorod to starve next turn
Starves, now 2450. Cologne + Yaroslavl grew, so observe no decrease from the starvation
2500. Novogorod grew and gave points.
2650. Kop/Birka/Wolin grew, so numbers as expected despite the repeated starvation
2700. Novgorod generates another 50VP for growing to pop 4.
Soooo yeah. This would be pretty hilarious to make use of (and Odin Lord knows we need it right now) but definitely feels exploitative enough to ask first. What say youze?
I'd say nothing, because I'm spoilt. Aside from doing the old man "get off my lawn" giving out when you plop a city in the wrong spot for its name, I'm useless to you :P
Travelling on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.
Ok so let's start catching up a bit. Somebody's been playing entirely too much Thea
We were able to sync up for this turn so have the transcript in the spoilers
T18! We get Stirrups
We start the turn down by Gibraltar, where Norway is being a big meanie (had to reload the turn to screencap the initial state)
Luckily we have our first Level 2 Longship from getting shot by Morocco. With a little bit of finagling, I slot them into the strait to guide the rest of the fleet through
Quote:Banzailizard joined the chat.
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: let's see if the norwegians decided to keep screwing us at gibraltar
Banzailizard: take me on a quick tour
Banzailizard: its been a while
Grotsnot: ok what the fuck
Grotsnot: why the hell are we taking all the fire >
Banzailizard: yeah looks like they are doing it intentionally
Banzailizard: wait
Banzailizard: are they attacking that city?
Grotsnot: looks like
Banzailizard: damn
Grotsnot: but for some reason the city attacked our boat >
Grotsnot: oh thank god
Grotsnot: someone with rutter
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: good choice on their part
Banzailizard: I was going ot maybe suggest doing that to tunis
Grotsnot: ok how to thread this...
Banzailizard: well back off there for sure no need to take more fire
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: well done with that
Banzailizard: clever clever I like it
Grotsnot: :D
Banzailizard: should we try to take tunis with LS?
Grotsnot: and now we have people on the other side to guide us through if the rutter boat gets boned
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: maybe if we have enough boats to spare
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: we should focus on monastery pillaging
Banzailizard: I would send one along the french coast
Banzailizard: anything in the riviera
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: can we pillage the wonder?
Grotsnot: I don't think so, maybe?
Grotsnot: I was gonna set up to grab the iron
Banzailizard: ok either way
Banzailizard: if we can next turn then we can
Grotsnot: interesting that norway hasn't been pillaging. Probably to save it for the healing while attacking Morrocco
Banzailizard: or leave them
Banzailizard: to pillage ?
Banzailizard: the north when it repairs
Grotsnot: sorry, been used to just driving the past few, I should talk more :P
Grotsnot: we have a small northern squadron assembling for that
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: south it is then
Grotsnot: I'm thinking send the undamaged/unpromoted boat in range of the city(s) to draw fire off our rutter but leave the damaged/promoted dude in
Banzailizard: interesting that norway has not taken scotland yet
Grotsnot: I'm ticked our Zerker got picked off and don't wanna lose more
Banzailizard: I think that sounds wise
Grotsnot: they're working on it
Banzailizard: we lost a zerker?
Grotsnot: and it was norway when I last saw it
Grotsnot: yeah, just now >
Banzailizard: to barbs?
Grotsnot: he was pillaging the far outskirts of Tmutakaran and apparently they had more reserves than I expected
Grotsnot: so that sucks
Grotsnot: I was probably too greedy
Sadly that Zerker I was raiding Tmutakaran with got his ass shot. Sorry bud
Back in Eastern Europe the Wolin army rolls forward and encounters a barb camp along their way south. And the Trader from ChersonZaporizhia is not being especially helpful getting them there. The Settlers make their way south to the Odessa and Kiev sites.
Also we chop a Huscarl into a Settler at Ladoga:
Which gets us our Viking boost!
Quote:Banzailizard: where is that settler going? black sea?
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: why lances?
Grotsnot: Oh right I decided Stirrups->Lances because I forgot Hacksilver needs Engineering
Banzailizard: ah
Grotsnot: which is kind of useless on its own
Banzailizard: well we should kill a knight soon
Banzailizard: how is the second housecarl coming?
Grotsnot: yeah, hopefully. I've been expecting to need to slowburn this one
Grotsnot: ^we are about to chop him actually
Grotsnot: I was thinking Settler if no objections?
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: possible objection of what do we do with that settler?
Banzailizard: we want to wait until we start raiding to convert and lock in that christian pop growth
Grotsnot: well we've got a lot of clay to settle. we both had a green dot east of Ladoga
Grotsnot: ah true true
Banzailizard: remember a christian boner is worth 50
Banzailizard: (sorry I am bad)
Grotsnot: ha
Banzailizard: then again
Grotsnot: want that edited out of the transcript? :P
Banzailizard: nah its fine
Banzailizard: anyways
Grotsnot: a settler out of ladoga will still take like 6t with the chop
Banzailizard: settler might be our only choice to usfully use it
Grotsnot: since Apu's will finish first
Banzailizard: yeah ok
Grotsnot: and we can have them mill about if we're close to a religion
Banzailizard: did we get a discount on any districts in our new city>
Grotsnot: not just yet, waiting on Wolin's Harbor
Banzailizard: cherson I mean
Banzailizard: ah k
Grotsnot: we could get a discounted Encampment
Banzailizard: do we want an encampment? might not be bad with a barrak that close to the front to get quick upgrades
Grotsnot: hmmm
Banzailizard: eh no we would need to buy a tile
Grotsnot: does the barracks pay off?
Banzailizard: probably not
Banzailizard: maybe for sending internal trade routes
Banzailizard: but not right now
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: not without walls
Grotsnot: I figured we'd rather have a CH
Banzailizard: with walls it could help if placed across the river
Grotsnot: and that walls mean something has gone wrong
Banzailizard: to weaken units
Grotsnot: ideally we should be sieging not besieged
Banzailizard: yeah I mean tto place it agressivly to do damage in the feild but that would be a lot of production for the same effect as an archer
Banzailizard: only other thing we might want to chop out is a sidge unit
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: but we might as well buy one
Banzailizard: in the south
Grotsnot: I was expecting to buy a ram, they're like 120
Banzailizard: and save the effort of hauling
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: 125
Grotsnot: pretty cheap
Banzailizard: we should wipe out the barb camp near hungary
Banzailizard: is hungary even in this map or is the whole area bkicjed off
Grotsnot: yeah we've got our Wolin company headed through that area
Grotsnot: it's blocked
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: but I knew whatcha meant
Grotsnot: stupid mouse, guess we're movin
Banzailizard: its fine
Banzailizard: I would have supported a move tbh
Grotsnot: hmm south or sit with the archer
Banzailizard: he has so much health we can aford it
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: can we spot with a unit frist?
Grotsnot: sadly no
Banzailizard: nope
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: he's not blocking anyone
Grotsnot: the zerker behind can promote
Banzailizard: lets leave him for now we gain little by moving south due to movement rules
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: assuming still battlecry
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: though the one we lost apparently could have used Tortoise >_<
Banzailizard: do we want a tortise now for the sake of wall shots?
Grotsnot: it's definitely also useful
Banzailizard: lets give him it and see what happens
Grotsnot: tortoise's main weakness is that Commando is amazing for zerkers
Banzailizard: oh fair
Grotsnot: and amphib is totally redundant
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: battlecry then
Banzailizard: urban warefare seems nice but zwehander is not bad either
Grotsnot: cripes only have 2 promotions after I lost the other one
Banzailizard: don't beat yourself up over it
Grotsnot: ^well at least it's a cross-promotion so amphib+commando have the same choices
Grotsnot: all right so battlecry
Grotsnot: we'll probably have a bunch of units to chew through in the balkans
Banzailizard: we have made a few calculated risks and that was one of them. we were bound to get a bad risk eventually
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: at least it wasn't wolin :P
Banzailizard: no kidding
Banzailizard: ok do the chop
Banzailizard: settler is fine
Grotsnot: I'm thinking swing this zerker around north, let the Huscarl come out of the forest to us
Grotsnot: so NE-E
Banzailizard: actually sets our population down
Banzailizard: er
Banzailizard: which zerker?
Grotsnot: it might pop back up, I've had the cities getting up to like 80-90% food before going to nil growth
Grotsnot: ah sorry
Grotsnot: this one
Banzailizard: move it onto the hills
Grotsnot: the sheep?
Banzailizard: zerkers are bad on defence we should take what we can get
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: that is a hill right?
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: all right
Banzailizard: hill bonus will be nice to have
Banzailizard: and we can spot a bit south
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: should have done that for the archer
Banzailizard: well no matter
Grotsnot: still can
Banzailizard: build go repair the sale
Banzailizard: or hmm wait on the salt
Grotsnot: he's just sleeping so unit cycle doesn't trip him
Banzailizard: we want to hold back op growth
Banzailizard: go repair the quarry
Grotsnot: I figure there's enough to repair if we don't want to salt yet
Banzailizard: and be ready to repair the salt latter
Grotsnot: he's got 1 charge so wanna save that for stuff
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: for the archer, is that woods by the barb camp on a hills?
Banzailizard: looks to be based on yeilds
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: or rather
Grotsnot: the one 2-tiles away is a hill
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: so I'm leaning move
Banzailizard: move the archer south east
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: next turn we can move south east again and maybe take a pot shot
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: love the settler sight range
Banzailizard: it is nice
Grotsnot: think it's safe to move south again
Grotsnot: SW
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: that will need cover though
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: archer better than nothing
Grotsnot: or could send it into the city
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: cover the settler
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: city is fine for now
Grotsnot: ah well whatever
Grotsnot: 6&half-dozen
Banzailizard: that road will help a lot
Grotsnot: ok choppity chop
Grotsnot: sadly IIRC it's gonna skip most of the swamp >
Grotsnot: it cuts through the north truffle
Banzailizard: where is it going again?
Grotsnot: Apuole
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: it goes up to NW of the stone and then due west
Banzailizard: yeah we do need to clear that camp asap then
Grotsnot: I was hoping it would zigzag through more of the foothils
Grotsnot: woot boost
Banzailizard: "ok trader I want you to take the hardest and least efficient path. ready? and....go"
Grotsnot: :D
Banzailizard: ok settler then
Grotsnot: I mean that is literally half of traders' purpose in 6 since players cannot be trusted to build their own roads aesthetically :/
Banzailizard: we'll need it anyways
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: we could detour through the builder I guess
Banzailizard: eh
Grotsnot: we have 68 overflow cogs
Banzailizard: lets wait to swap back at vikings
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: what do we get for vikings?
Banzailizard: like how many of which policy cards
Grotsnot: oodles of fun
Banzailizard: hover over oligarchy
Grotsnot: I'm annoyed Raid & Sack are separate which makes both somewhat weak
Grotsnot: oh bitchin I forgot about the +4STR
Grotsnot: 1/1/0/2 slots is nice
Banzailizard: ok just wanted to make sure it did the same thing as normal
Grotsnot: +1 econ for us
Banzailizard: so 1 military 2 econ 2 what wild?
Grotsnot: yep!
Banzailizard: oh that is nice
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: insulae latter will be nice
Banzailizard: siedge tactics can maybe take up a wild
Grotsnot: I figure add on Navigator and either Leithangr or Strategos. Maybe Raid/Sack? whichever applies to improvements
Grotsnot: you think?
Grotsnot: I figured siege tactics was worthless since we can just buy one ram and be done with it
Banzailizard: fair
Grotsnot: maybe a 2nd if we can afford to split up
Banzailizard: not sure if we will need the help in the balkans
Banzailizard: wait does one ram per city work for all of the units therein
Banzailizard: ?
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: oh nice
Banzailizard: ok Nvm
Banzailizard: I was thinking we might need it for blitzing purposes
Grotsnot: so question is whether we can stretch to attack Balkans and Anatolia at the same time
Grotsnot: that's limited by zerkers more than siege units though
Religion is not looking so hot for us, what with missing out on the French and British pillaging. Got some catching up to do before we can start our conquests
And all that's left this turn is a bit of production and trader management. Kop starts on another Zerker and we send the Trader to Utrecht to try and get some more gossip
(spoilering the mass of end-of-turn overview screencaps for space)
(and the rest of the chat log)
Quote:Grotsnot: anyway this new huscarl
Banzailizard: lets get eyes on the ground and in the water first
Grotsnot: could head down to join the invasion crew
Grotsnot: or go sack that barb camp north of helsingfors
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: invasion
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: the camp is not doing anything important
Grotsnot: I was leaning that way, too. The camp doesn't have much it can threaten
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: its maybe soem free gold
Grotsnot: the Laplanders are more annoying since we have mines there
Banzailizard: maybe some GG points
Banzailizard: meh
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: lapland needs to be killed
Banzailizard: with the second zerker from Birka
Grotsnot: I'm thinking promote this turn
Grotsnot: so he can get more exp
Banzailizard: only other option is a kill so yes
Grotsnot: if we lose a copper mine oh noes that's what the builder is for
Banzailizard: yeah only hurts a bit due to production loss
Grotsnot: hmm blast. Would have made more sense to give the other one Tortoise between the two
Grotsnot: since this guy has a chance of getting to commando
Grotsnot: before the siege gets going
Banzailizard: ok give him battlecry
Grotsnot: anyway he definitely should go for commando for catching up. Just sucks missed an opportunity with the other
Banzailizard: it will help defend against housecarls
Grotsnot: oh really, somehow I'd gotten the impression BC was only on the attack
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: not defending against range clearly
Grotsnot: I'm thinking Oslo for the trade route
Banzailizard: but it would make sense defending agianst melee
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: why oslo over roskilde? intel?
Grotsnot: yeah basically
Banzailizard: makes sense to me
Grotsnot: also shorter
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: or maybe utrecht
Grotsnot: or ribe, they both give cog and faith
Banzailizard: Oslo for intel
Banzailizard: we want to see the setters they are sending out
Grotsnot: hmmmm
Banzailizard: we will get to see bits and peices or Ultrecht by ships sailing by
Grotsnot: fair point
Grotsnot: city is a bit light on production so was thinking might be worth giving up the 3gpt
Banzailizard: what do scores look like
Banzailizard: just curious
Grotsnot: woah we're above 50% of the leader for the first time in a while
Banzailizard: ew
Banzailizard: well that is good then
Banzailizard: just looks like we are so far behind
Grotsnot: yeah getting screwed for pillage sucks
Banzailizard: its ok I guess though
Banzailizard: we just need to ramp it up with that religion
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: we can get a pretty big edge that way
Grotsnot: yeah all the lategame citizens
Grotsnot: main hope comes from already knowing we're the late blooming civ but it's not as large a hope as I'd like
Banzailizard: hopefully they spend all their time and effort fighting one another for the lead and we grow into it
Grotsnot: Norway has 2 GAs already >_<
Banzailizard: nothing we can do about that
Grotsnot: yeah just the 1500VP is gonna sting
Grotsnot: at least we're keeping up wtih Denmark on cities
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: oh right they were the ones who settled ireland
Banzailizard: which surprised me to be honest
Banzailizard: ireland is not great
Grotsnot: yeah ditto
Grotsnot: iceland is better for the empire I think
Banzailizard: but I guess they did it for pop growth for score
Grotsnot: ah true they are catholic already
Banzailizard: who is siedging cornwalll?
Grotsnot: yeah wow they have 30-31 pop already
Grotsnot: nobody yet, at least in earnest
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: let's move the north squadron
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: no pillage to be had sadly
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: he'd have to sit in range of a bunch of stuff over by Rouen
Grotsnot: could sit a turn and rush the channel next turn
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: I like they're naming geographically too
Banzailizard: what are they making?
Banzailizard: CH?
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: curious not coastal
Banzailizard: freshwater
Banzailizard: CH next to river
Banzailizard: and Harbor next to that
Banzailizard: not sure why they did not settle on the spot for the CH and CH the swamp
Banzailizard: unless it is a tech thing
Grotsnot: yeah I just woulda gone a tick SW personally. Though the more central position does get more resources eventually
Banzailizard: yeah that is all I can think of
Grotsnot: oh, well we're waiting a turn anyway
Grotsnot: at least we have another boat coming to spot them through the rest of the gap
Banzailizard: might legitimately be faster to go north
Grotsnot: unless they block a full 4 tiles
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: I think they want that and they might therefore have them all blocked up
Grotsnot: it takes an extra 2 turns to go around, compared to unblocked channel
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: try south I guess
Banzailizard: if blocked we have only lost a turn
Grotsnot: ok that works
Banzailizard: if unblocked we gain a turn
Grotsnot: yeah exactly
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: for the builder I'm thinking we want to get up to the north forests via Birka in case there's mines to repair
Banzailizard: sounds good
Banzailizard: then he can go east to chop when done
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: oh right the trader
Banzailizard: production in kop?
Grotsnot: you think Oslo+3gpt is worth a god?
Grotsnot: utrecht goes past Oslo at least?
Banzailizard: worth a god?
Grotsnot: ha
Grotsnot: cog
Grotsnot: how did that even happen
Banzailizard: no idea and I am dyslexic
Grotsnot: hahahahah
Banzailizard: oh hmm the cog would be nice on that low production city
Banzailizard: it is like working half an extra tile
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: +50% too
Banzailizard: ok yeah do that
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: its worth more right now
Banzailizard: hmm wait i had oslo mixed up
Banzailizard: we eventually want to send a trader
Banzailizard: to the northwest coast
Grotsnot: no extra gossip immediately, maybe something next turn. Dunno if they ever give retroactive news
Banzailizard: of norway
Grotsnot: Nidaros?
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: keep an eye on settlers and ships sailing from there
Grotsnot: ah gotcha
Grotsnot: ok just production left
Banzailizard: more military units?
Grotsnot: yeah thinking either Zerker or mayyyybe Harbor Shipping?
Banzailizard: only other thing I can see is a builder but again wait for the policy swap
Grotsnot: yeah and we just got one
Banzailizard: harbor shiping is for 10 turns
Banzailizard: and gives...?
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: GAPs
Banzailizard: how many?
Grotsnot: uhh good question
Grotsnot: it scales
Banzailizard: if it is like 100 that would be fantastic
Banzailizard: but if it is like 10
Banzailizard: not so much
Grotsnot: hard to say, the scaling is janky in VTR. I think it would be around 20. Would need to run a test game
Grotsnot: for 10 turns probably not worth it
Grotsnot: Zerker then?
Banzailizard: zerker
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: I think we are good
Grotsnot: interesting that they're going for different cities now instead of cashing in on the trade post
Banzailizard: wait one thing
Banzailizard: what are the other governments?
Grotsnot: they haven't switched yet thankfully
Banzailizard: might one of them go for something other than vikings?
Banzailizard: yeah but in the tech tree
Grotsnot: ohhh
Banzailizard: might be helpful to know
Grotsnot: I see
Grotsnot: Vikings is the only Tier 2 I think, the others are Tier 3
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: we proably want theocrocy when we get there
Grotsnot: yeah for the mil slot. We'll want to end the game in Merchant Republic though for the +50VP
Banzailizard: for sure
Banzailizard: what does theocracy do
Grotsnot: buy units with faith
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: same as normal
Grotsnot: situationally useful
Grotsnot: faith is worth VPs but could see an important unit paying off
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: or honestly a GP
Banzailizard: look 1000 faith is worth 100 VP I think right?
Grotsnot: true, though that costs a lot
Banzailizard: so anything less than 500 faith is worth buying instantly
Banzailizard: ah
Grotsnot: 1000 worth 200VP, so close
Banzailizard: we can snipe the next GG if we really want it
Banzailizard: what does he do?
Grotsnot: a GG is worth 50VP, GA worth 350/150
Grotsnot: converts barbs
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: does that get rid of him?
Grotsnot: useful for us to free barb scouting more than the activated ability
Grotsnot: pretty sure, dunno if 2 charges
Banzailizard: ok we should find out
Grotsnot: Thorfinn and Roger are better
Grotsnot: Corps and free Catapult
Grotsnot: converting barbs gets you archers and huscarls
Banzailizard: ah yeah
Banzailizard: save the gold
Grotsnot: cool cool
Grotsnot: all right so all done?
Banzailizard: yus
Grotsnot: cool cool
and gives up trying to block us now that we have a rutter. Also seem to have given up on assaulting Morocco for the time being. Walls are a pain for boats
We claim our first pillage in the Med but looks like Norway has already been running around here for a turn or maybe two. We'll have to hope there's enough pillage for the both of us and do whatever we can to grab monasteries
We're getting close to our first Christian city flip but still a little bit to go
Get some unlucky RNG in the... Belorussian? forests but it doesn't stop up the convoy too bad
We have some better luck up in Lappland. Murder the Huscarl for some GGPs but there's an annoying number of archers around. Pretty sure the Zerker can survive this time
Also, Kiev is founded! Liiiitle but of a craphole production-wise but it gets us the Truffles (and ) and will grow like a weed. Upon review maybe we should have gone across the river a tick SW to get in purchase range of the hills but... eh. This is fine.
The Cornish are helping the Danes block our north sea fleet from shooting the channel so I split the difference and send one north and have the other wait and see if it clears up
Our score is still pretty anemic... gotta get that Med pillage train rolling!
Thankfully Denmark seems to be encountering some speedbumps around Aachen Norway has their gross amount of Vinland points but at the moment I'm still worried more about the long-term score from conquests. Dun Breatann is only their 4th city while we and Denmark have nearly double that.
Turn 20! Then I'm gonna take a break So kind of a light post but whatever >_>
Get some more pillage down in Spain and we get our first Catholic city!
Got a bunch of sailing to do to get to most of the pillaging grounds but we pick up a boat kill on the way for some GAPs
Gonna get Odessa next turn!
North boat is gonna continue going around and get eyes on the Faeroes to see if and when someone settles it
Rest of the end state
and finally the transcript for the turn
Quote:Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: all right
Grotsnot: so I've moved a couple boats but that's about it
Banzailizard: wow they are already that far ahead of us?
Banzailizard: oh look
Banzailizard: a longship kill
Banzailizard: we can kill that swordsman proably
Grotsnot: potentially yeah
Grotsnot: oh yeah definitely
Grotsnot: nice
Banzailizard: ok good for GA points
Banzailizard: oh and we made it though the chanel I see
Grotsnot: I'm thinking we can snag that Monastery up north
Grotsnot: ah yes
Grotsnot: unfortunately I split the difference last turn and sent the other one north to go around
Grotsnot: could bring him back around this turn if we wanna
Banzailizard: not much we can do about that
Grotsnot: ooo plantation and monastery on that coast are repaired
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: lets see if any danes around
Banzailizard: sounds like pillaging a plenty
Grotsnot: kickass!
Banzailizard: hopefully the danes are busy with their conquest
Banzailizard: ok good
Grotsnot: hmm let's check the charts for where Poitiers is, don't wanna get shot
Grotsnot: ok yeah 1 East of the wine
Grotsnot: so wanna stick here even though SE would be better pillage options
Grotsnot: so what do you think, try and bring the boat through the channel or go around?
Banzailizard: sorry had another message
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: s'all good
Banzailizard: I would say keep going around
Banzailizard: not like we have another boat to spot this time if the chanel is backed up
Grotsnot: yey pillage
Grotsnot: we have the one that just shot the gap this turn
Banzailizard: can we go sit on those crabs?
Grotsnot: he could divert back a tile or two
Banzailizard: faith in the north
Banzailizard: on the riveria
Banzailizard: that takes priority over the swordkill if needed
Grotsnot: hmm it'll be in range of a city
Banzailizard: we do not want norway to sit there
Grotsnot: longship could reach pillaging a farm but not the crabs for this turn
Banzailizard: I am fine with moving and waiting
Banzailizard: I am afriad norway will block us out next turn
Grotsnot: Norway hanging out around france is better than racing us for greece at least
Banzailizard: and we need all the faith we can get
Banzailizard: how much faith is there in itally and greece?
Grotsnot: they have 3 boats they're not gonna block us they're gonna take everything :P
Grotsnot: a bunch, unless its random
Banzailizard: well I mean block us by sailing in and raiding over a few turns
Grotsnot: Greece has mostly grassland
Grotsnot: ohh I see
Banzailizard: if they sit on the crabs they can pillage that then the faith and the farm
Grotsnot: farm at least has multiple access points
Banzailizard: true
Banzailizard: lets scout itally with the damaged one
Banzailizard: if we see more faith we are ok
Grotsnot: ah, that guy is mostly out of movement. Has to decide whether to eat a shot from Tunis to claim the fish
Grotsnot: oh wait
Grotsnot: those fish are safe
Grotsnot: sit there?
Banzailizard: yeah I was going to say
Banzailizard: uhhh
Banzailizard: move the guy with 2 promotions a bit closer to itally while keeping him out of range
Banzailizard: if there is faith in italy we can kill the swordman
Grotsnot: can go to fish and poke the sword for the last boat to finish. But that would mean giving up the pillage around barcelona
Banzailizard: if not that guy by tunis will just sit there
Banzailizard: right trying to figure out if we should
Grotsnot: bah just out of sight range of Sardinia
Banzailizard: wow the made the western med really big
Grotsnot: unfortunately the catapult is sitting on the iron now and can't pillage the alhambra
Banzailizard: what about at valencia
Banzailizard: or is that on fire
Banzailizard: hard to tell with fog of war
Grotsnot: yeah fire
Grotsnot: except the north oranges I guess
Grotsnot: but norway can steal that
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: I say go for the faith with the fully healed one
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: we could steal the archer
Banzailizard: I think
Grotsnot: sure could
Grotsnot: it's a safe tile too
Banzailizard: how many GA points is that worth how close are we to a new GA?
Grotsnot: worth 10
Grotsnot: we're a ways away :/
Grotsnot: but keeping norway from getting it helps
Grotsnot: also gives exp
Banzailizard: true
Banzailizard: let me go look at the maps you posted
Grotsnot: we're close to sicily
Grotsnot: sardinia isn't gonna have any pillage
Grotsnot: south coast of france has a lot of seafood but is also rather prickly
Banzailizard: looks like southern greece
Banzailizard: is full of faith
Grotsnot: yep, in test games
Banzailizard: ok I would say kill the archer
Grotsnot: dunno if those are preplaced or not is all
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: let's make a hard push east
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: I like this plan, getting to the eastern med faster is good
Banzailizard: its a risk but I think it is a good one with a solid backup rational
Grotsnot: agreed
Grotsnot: so in line with that I'm thinking run this last boat east, maybe northeast
Grotsnot: losing the iron sucks but it's not like it's a faith tile
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Banzailizard: lets keep pressure on them to want to fill in southenr france
Banzailizard: if they delay there better for us
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: agreed
Banzailizard: 2 tiles north and the rest east
Banzailizard: yes right there
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: vissably a threat to them but we can strike east hard next turn if they fall for it
Grotsnot: hmm we'd get a promotion for attacking but don't wanna give norway a kill, so should just have this last guy call it a turn
Grotsnot: ^yup, and if not we can just grab some stuff in france
Banzailizard: well
Banzailizard: they might kill it anyways
Grotsnot: yeah but it'd take two boats
Grotsnot: they get movement bonus not combat
Banzailizard: south of barcallona
Banzailizard: I would move that guy northwest 1
Banzailizard: to discourage it
Grotsnot: ?
Banzailizard: its an extra few tiles they need to move
Banzailizard: next to tunis
Grotsnot: I was thinking bogarting the fish was more important
Grotsnot: our red boat can come up and heal
Banzailizard: are those even improved?
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: ha
Grotsnot: deerrrrp
Banzailizard: looks like they are outside the boarder
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: ok am I the dumb
Banzailizard: nah the UI is dumb
Banzailizard: this is litterally the best version of the map and it is still hard to read
Grotsnot: ok so yeah NW makes sense
Banzailizard: actually yeah
Grotsnot: ohh wait wait
Banzailizard: that puts the swordsman outside of their range
Grotsnot: the sword is gonna move
Banzailizard: oh yeah
Grotsnot: in between us and them
Banzailizard: what makes you think that
Banzailizard: why not move back to the coast?
Grotsnot: ah sorry I mean time not location
Banzailizard: oh right
Grotsnot: CS acts in between us
Banzailizard: so should we hit it?
Banzailizard: and get the promotion
Banzailizard: hoping that it lands?
Grotsnot: I'm thinking so, yeah. Since we don't have the fish to heal with the promotion will be nice for that alone
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Grotsnot: ok slugging
Grotsnot: we don't even take damage from hitting embarked units so easy exp
Banzailizard: unrelated but we should switch off lancers soon
Banzailizard: maybe get engineering
Grotsnot: ah yes
Banzailizard: unless we do not think we are getting that boost
Grotsnot: this turn actually
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: I'm game to delay for Engineering but then just hard-tech it if boost is still nowhere in sight
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: let's check out the black sea
Banzailizard: sure
Grotsnot: thinkin settler SE and chill
Grotsnot: hang with the archer
Banzailizard: hmm faith there for pillage too
Grotsnot: zerker move 2S
Grotsnot: yeah that's why I risked the previous zerker
Banzailizard: move the settler 1 frist for LOS
Banzailizard: knight vs archer will not keep the settler safe
Grotsnot: byz hasn't eaten Preslav yet
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: so your plan seems fine then
Grotsnot: never seen CS get Knights, just the AI empires
Banzailizard: just wanted to make sure
Grotsnot: yeah definitely
Grotsnot: oh right portage we could get up in their faces
Grotsnot: hmm I dunno
Banzailizard: not liking that
Grotsnot: too much unknown
Banzailizard: it would be diffrent if we coud strike
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: but as is it looks like we are just voulentering to be shot
Grotsnot: but next to odessa is good to make sure we get the plant next turn
Grotsnot: keeps the archer from getting shot at least
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Grotsnot: but could go W instead if you prefer
Banzailizard: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: west I think
Grotsnot: or even NE I guess
Banzailizard: the AI will proably shoot the archer
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: and then move the other archer to shoot the zerker
Grotsnot: W can still punch anyone sitting on odessa
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: k
Grotsnot: ok so now we have our caravan and huscarl slapfight
Grotsnot: Huscarl I'm thinking SE+Promote
Banzailizard: and let the other HC suicide?
Grotsnot: unless we want him to stick around to fight more barbs instead of joining the invasion team
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: ok sounds good
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: Huscarl has Tortoise builtin already
Banzailizard: they are already good vs archers
Grotsnot: so could double that
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: or make them suck less vs other stuff
Banzailizard: I would go battlecry
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: no need to double up on the tortise since we cannot gaurentee they will be hit by that
Banzailizard: no to the stone
Banzailizard: eh ok
Grotsnot: oh sorry
Grotsnot: missed it
Banzailizard: I was thinking they coud sweep the camp next turn just in case
Grotsnot: ahh good point
Grotsnot: I was thinking it didn't matter much whether they went S or E until we hit the elbow, sorry
Banzailizard: its cool
Banzailizard: if the zerker and archer switch
Banzailizard: can the archer still fire?
Grotsnot: so archer could kill the huscarl but we want the zerker to get the GGPs
Grotsnot: yes
Grotsnot: assumign you mean the western z
Banzailizard: then swithc them fire on the spear kill the HC
Banzailizard: yes I did
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: wait
Banzailizard: the spear can still reach the archer that way
Banzailizard: eh
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: shit
Grotsnot: oops
Banzailizard: AI is dumb
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: and the archer cannot be killed
Grotsnot: finish off the huscarl or promote and wait for it to suicide
Banzailizard: also puts the HC in the right spot
Grotsnot: I like promote personally
Banzailizard: so long as we get GG points on the defence
Banzailizard: promote is ok
Banzailizard: though I do like the idea of moving along here
Grotsnot: like 95% sure we do
Grotsnot: ditto I just hate wasting exp
Banzailizard: does it not build up?
Grotsnot: pretty sure it stops until you use the promotion
Banzailizard: like you cannot strore multiple promotions>
Grotsnot: could be wrong, though
Banzailizard: in 5 you could I know
Banzailizard: and I think in 4
Grotsnot: yeah I know 4 for sure
Banzailizard: but it was absued in 5 a bit in MP
Banzailizard: so maybe they wanted to curtail that
Banzailizard: to google?
Grotsnot: or just lazy coding
Grotsnot: sue
Grotsnot: sure*
Grotsnot: I am also very much not a fan of the Barracks' "+25% XP" bonuses instead of just giving a lump of starting XP
Banzailizard: https://civ6.gamepedia.com/Promotion
Banzailizard: looks like it dose not carry over
Banzailizard: ok so yeah promote
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: do we want yet another battlecry or mix in a tortoise
Banzailizard: mix in the tortise I guess
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: I don't feel too strongly, didn't mean to prime in one direction or the other :P
Banzailizard: no its fine lets se ehow it goes for him
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: hodamn
Grotsnot: friggin archers, man
Grotsnot: ugh not even a promo
Banzailizard: lets back off to save that unit
Grotsnot: I guess run to the encampment?
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: only thing we can do really
Grotsnot: sucks it'll bounce the new unit to the CC
Banzailizard: another zerker is going to be done soon
Grotsnot: but in the water it can get shot
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: its ok we can get in and out of the water and get up to the front quickly
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: hmm what about this builder
Grotsnot: head to finland now or wait and see if repairs are needed
Banzailizard: how many turns would he need to be in finnland for repairs?
Grotsnot: hm?
Banzailizard: err
Banzailizard: rather
Banzailizard: he will need to move to finland to be there for a chop in 4 turns right
Banzailizard: can he wast the time waiting?
Banzailizard: waste*
Grotsnot: ah true
Grotsnot: no he cannot
Banzailizard: ok then to finland it is
Grotsnot: ok hopefully the zerkers sufficiently distract the barbs
Banzailizard: he can always move back for repairs
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: oh kickass
Banzailizard: so we have a production choice and the tech swap left
Grotsnot: ladoga is finally religious
Banzailizard: how much pressure do our cities have on them
Banzailizard: any likely to convert?
Grotsnot: with some overflow into Kop next it looks like. Christ.
Banzailizard: well no not Christ that is the problem
Grotsnot: ha
Grotsnot: I just mean why did it have to pick the highest pop city
Banzailizard: maybe it does that
Grotsnot: I thought it was supposed to pick the fastest but don't remember why I had that impression
Banzailizard: I have been avoiding installing steam since I mean for this to be the work laptop
Grotsnot: so yeah riga just got a zerker
Banzailizard: but maybe tomorrow I will do that and install civ 6
Banzailizard: and test
Grotsnot: oky doky
Banzailizard: I can always uninstall after the holidays
Grotsnot: you have to provide your own work laptop?
Banzailizard: no
Banzailizard: I am a student
Grotsnot: oh right
Grotsnot: duh
Banzailizard: I have a desktop and a computer lab
Banzailizard: but having my ownlaptop will be nice
Banzailizard: even in my own apartment
Banzailizard: I can go to a diffrent room and have acess to a computer but not any of my games on it
Grotsnot: yup! I've got a desktop and haven't used my laptop much since college
Grotsnot: we got a windows tablet recently and that's pretty handy
Grotsnot: win10 though which bleh
Banzailizard: I am ok with 10
Banzailizard: did not liek 8 at all
Banzailizard: 10 has some weird things but works well enough
Banzailizard: I do like that it finaly has native dule monitor task bars
Grotsnot: yeah 10 is at least better than 8
Banzailizard: only took them forever
Grotsnot: haha
Banzailizard: I actually bought a program for 7 for that
Grotsnot: I like having only 1 taskbar personally, but can see why folks would want both
Banzailizard: like $15
Grotsnot: I think my DisplayFusion might support that?
Grotsnot: though I'm cheap and use the free version
Banzailizard: well I want each program to be on the taskbar on the monitor it is on
Grotsnot: I used to have a stupid quad-monitor system and that was a pain with the standard win7
Banzailizard: wish they both had the clock on them
Grotsnot: yeah that would be nice
Banzailizard: but I will settle for this
Grotsnot: oh yeah so Riga
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: another zerker?
Grotsnot: anything compete with moar zerkers?
Grotsnot: builder maybe?
Banzailizard: or are we going to start getting a traffic jam?
Grotsnot: we get the policy card in 2t
Grotsnot: I don't think so, if anything it's a traffic jam in enemy territory and we can fork off another front
Banzailizard: yeah I think the zerker or housecarl is the best option here
Grotsnot: Huscarls are solid for anti-barb duty
Grotsnot: would be a little faster, not a terrible option
Banzailizard: maybe do that then
Banzailizard: it will miss the caravan anyways
Banzailizard: he can stay around and watch for barbs
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: work it for 5 turns and then a builder after policy swap
Grotsnot: yepper
Grotsnot: oh so just leaves whether we wanna try and shoot the channel again or eat the turn and go around
Banzailizard: I would say go north its about a half turn diffrence
Banzailizard: or
Banzailizard: we can go way west to see what norway settles
Grotsnot: yeah it's ~1T difference to go around
Banzailizard: actually sort of like the idea of running him through the sea of mann
Banzailizard: to get eyes on that last city in wales
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: yeah that makes sense
Banzailizard: I think there is one more there right?
Grotsnot: yep, tamford or something
Banzailizard: Tamsworth
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: just checking the charts quick where Faeroes is
Banzailizard: wonder if the danes or norway will get it
Banzailizard: also did you see the army in denmark?
Grotsnot: oh wow
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: they are going all in vs HRE
Grotsnot: headed to Paris I guess
Grotsnot: or whatever the city in between here and Paris is called
Banzailizard: Achen frist proably
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: its
Grotsnot: so yeah we gotta get to constantinople
Banzailizard: Aix-La-Chapelle
Banzailizard: which is achen
Grotsnot: ah ok, just in French?
Banzailizard: guess so
Grotsnot: like Elsass/Alsace
Banzailizard: or maybe medevil frankish?
Grotsnot: could be
Banzailizard: IDK if they went that far
Grotsnot: I mean they have Eoforwic
Banzailizard: christopher tin likes odd languages and he composed the main theme, who knows maybe he rubbed off on them
Grotsnot: and Dun Breteann
Grotsnot: haha
Grotsnot: oh so anyway
Grotsnot: is it worth getting eyes on the faeros
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: its not too much of a delay
Grotsnot: would require 2 ticks NE
Banzailizard: huh scotland is not christian
Grotsnot: 1 if we we're content with only seeing borders
Grotsnot: England neither at the start
Banzailizard: weird
Grotsnot: not sure any CS are, might be something janky with coding that?
Banzailizard: I mena the timeline here is a bit screwy
Banzailizard: oh that would make sense
Grotsnot: Tmut and Preslav aren't officially Christian either
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: would be really weird if Rome wasn't though
Grotsnot: so sounds like yes to Faeroes and call it a turn?
Banzailizard: more non christian cities for us to take and add to our already overzied pagans
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: ^yeah :.
Grotsnot: :/
Grotsnot: at least we get more gold out of it
Banzailizard: man we really need to be good Christians and burn down monasteries asap
Grotsnot: where the heck is norway's settler
Grotsnot: hahahaha
Banzailizard: yeah I have no idea
Grotsnot: https://pics.me.me/never-forget-that-on-...035718.png
Banzailizard: I can only think they sent it to greenland or vineland
Grotsnot: I think Vinland is impassible innit?
Banzailizard: ha
Banzailizard: also I have no idea
Grotsnot: ok would have to test it
Banzailizard: are the canaries in the game?
Banzailizard: are the settlable?
Grotsnot: don't think so
Grotsnot: brb quick
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: back
Grotsnot: so yeah like 80% sure no canaries or azores
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: just was a thought
Grotsnot: so I think we're set, yeah?
Grotsnot: unless we wanna stall the settlers
Grotsnot: oh right Lances
Banzailizard: nah don't stall the settlers
Grotsnot: killing a knight seems unlikely with a native-held preslav but we could still get lucky
Banzailizard: by the time they are ready to move out with units to protect them
Banzailizard: I mean I supose we could switch to units for that purpose
Banzailizard: well
Banzailizard: don't we need engiering for a new policy boost?
Grotsnot: nah it's a tech
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: like the tech for a boost
Grotsnot: I misread
Grotsnot: let's see
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: hmmm nah
Banzailizard: what does engiering open up?
Banzailizard: and do we think we will build knights anytime soon?
Grotsnot: Hacksilver
Banzailizard: also where is the boost for cav units? do we have that card already?
Grotsnot: and we can whenever we wanna switch off of zerkers and get a builder in Not-Cherson
Grotsnot: no that card is a ways off unfortunately :9
Grotsnot:
Grotsnot: need a religion and then 2 holy sites if we wanna boost the path there
Banzailizard: I would almost go for engineering hacksilver now but IDK
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: works for me
Grotsnot: can at least knock out engineering and go from there
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: I mean knights are nice and all but the main use I can see for them is building or buying back and getting up front quickly
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: I think we wanna switch by T30 but we have time
Banzailizard: and really we should hopefully just be buying more zerkers up front
Grotsnot: by/around
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: well the home cities gotta do something with their cogs
Grotsnot: there's harbor shipping and holy sites I guess
Grotsnot: also settlers
Grotsnot: so yeah zerkers all the way
Banzailizard: how long until the assult are we thinking?
Banzailizard: like 5 turns?
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: 7 turns for the main caravan
Banzailizard: might be worth buying a zerker in the south even to pillage with 3 zerkers
Banzailizard: IDK
Banzailizard: is that enough for an assult/
Grotsnot: if we buy a zerker in Not-Cherson ahead of time they could get started on Tmutakaran and join up with the caravan to go for Preslav
Grotsnot: 3 zerkers a boat and a ram should do for a city-state yeah
Banzailizard: that is what I was thinking
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: maybe lets do that
Banzailizard: and just go in hard for ERE
Grotsnot: buy now to start pillaging or wait for the 3rd?
Grotsnot: if he gets pillage it partially pays for himself
Banzailizard: I am ok with either
Banzailizard: but we just need to be careful not to loose him
Grotsnot: I'm leaning buy then, so that they don't get the chance to focus down another zerker
Grotsnot: yeah...
Banzailizard: with the archers out west here I think we are ok
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: alright let's do it
Banzailizard: and next turn buy a boat and a ram
Banzailizard: then all aboard the pillage train
Grotsnot: choo choo
Grotsnot: so Not-Cherson. Thoughts on Zaporizhia vs Korsun?
Grotsnot: or leave it as inaccurate
Banzailizard: eh leave it as inacurate now
Banzailizard: since we keep refering to it as that
Grotsnot: haha
Grotsnot: true
Grotsnot: that would be a point in favor of Korsun, I guess
Banzailizard: ok I think we are set then
Banzailizard: sure?
Banzailizard: doesn't bother me one way or the other
Grotsnot: I dunno
Grotsnot: I prefer accurate aesthetically but don't really care enough if you wanna leave it
Banzailizard: you cna change it if you want
Banzailizard: I am ok either way
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: I kinda like Zaporizhia for the famous painting but Korsun better matches what we've been calling it
Grotsnot: oh yeah otherwise we're done don't me keep ya :P
Banzailizard: its fine
Banzailizard: I was looking at something else
Banzailizard: anyeays yeah
Banzailizard: sounds good
Grotsnot: oky doky
Happy New Year folks! Let's continue catching up. On to Turn 21!
Our pillage starts to roll in - find a cache of repaired tiles in France and some pillageables in Sicily and Tunisia
We also found Odessa on the Black Sea! Immediately purchase a Ram and a Longship to go after Tmutakaran. They will join our small advance force and the Zerker we bought in Zap last turn.
On the Great People front, we are only 1 kill away from the next GG! We positioned a Zerker next to that redlined barb huscarl so will get to find out what happens if we get a great person on the interturn.
Transcript:
Quote:Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: things are lookin pretty good
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: no threats to Odessa and barbs suicided
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: oh look
Banzailizard: a norwegen housecarl
Grotsnot: yeah...
Banzailizard: yeah norway went where I thought they would
Grotsnot: dunno if that means a settler is inbound
Banzailizard: hopefully not
Banzailizard: we could get one up there sooner actually
Grotsnot: if we want to
Grotsnot: how bad do we want lappland
Grotsnot: it has deer and iron and forests but all tundra
Banzailizard: more about denying it to norway if they send someone and mosly about north sweeden
Banzailizard: the forests would not be bad for more chops
Grotsnot: true true
Banzailizard: but IDK
Grotsnot: oh so we have to decide whether to get barb GG or pass
Grotsnot: I'm thinkin just take it since the next one will have a cost increase
Grotsnot: even if the later ones are probably better
Grotsnot: oh wait my bad
Grotsnot: only 1 zerker kill
Banzailizard: ?
Grotsnot: the other is a huscarl
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: yeah lets do those kills
Grotsnot: I thought we were getting 20 GGPs just from fighting
Banzailizard: we can get at least 10
Grotsnot: we could send the zerkers over to the guy by the huscarl and let it suicide
Banzailizard: what if the houscarl kills it?
Grotsnot: lemme check last turn's screenshots but I'm pretty sure we got the 10GGPs on defense
Banzailizard: no GG points?
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: we had 125 last turn
Banzailizard: how many do we have now?
Grotsnot: so yeah 2 kills down by the mountains
Grotsnot: 147
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: so do only zerkers earn GG points?
Grotsnot: sadly norway got a boat kill, probably that sword we dinged
Grotsnot: ^correct
Banzailizard: ok then move the housecarl and let usthe barb suicide
Grotsnot: sadly I don't think that applies in the base game, that would make norway maybe worth taking :P
Grotsnot: o7
Banzailizard: unless we really think a GG will help on campaign
Banzailizard: but I doubt that
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Grotsnot: nuther zerker in its face or go south...
Banzailizard: south if it is going to suicide more will not make a diffrence
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: careful barbs in finlan
Banzailizard: careful for the builder I mean
Grotsnot: yeah >
Grotsnot: oh should I have sent someone north?
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: nah
Banzailizard: nothing to really protect up there
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: eat the archer by birka with the new guy, yeah?
Banzailizard: if we can
Banzailizard: I think we can
Grotsnot: handily
Banzailizard: then yes
Banzailizard: more GG points
Grotsnot: om nom nom
Grotsnot: oooo promotion right aay
Grotsnot: away*
Grotsnot: other zerker has to heal at least a turn or two
Grotsnot: grumble
Banzailizard: how close does that put us to GG?
Grotsnot: the suicide will get it
Banzailizard: nice
Banzailizard: ok a benfit of going last for once
Grotsnot: not sure how that works if denmark gets 20GGPs before it gets back around to us to decide keep or pass
Banzailizard: ah right we get that choice
Grotsnot: we could buy it I guess if we care enough. I kinda doubt we do
Banzailizard: not worth it
Banzailizard: without the area of effect
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: it's 50VP but the next guy is probably better
Grotsnot: so i think this remaining huscarl is gonna get in the zerkers' way if he moves this turn
Banzailizard: if danemark passes it up maybe we should take it anyways, if it is free at that point
Grotsnot: ^yeah agreed
Banzailizard: then maybe heal?
Grotsnot: otherwise we're waiting for norway to get it
Grotsnot: yeah that's what I was gonna say, heal while we're in home territory
Grotsnot: if only for a turn
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: let the zerkers go first
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: road is almost there
Grotsnot: the dumbass trader went around everything of value
Grotsnot: didn't even hit the truffles
Grotsnot: maybe it'll go east for a while but I suspect it's gonna be lazy
Grotsnot: anyway
Grotsnot: we have a couple cities that are mildly unhappy so I'm leaning toward repair the salt
Grotsnot: since I think that costs us a little bit of cogs/beakers/etc
Banzailizard: I am not as worried about the cogs as the bekers
Banzailizard: I think a few cogs are worth more vp
Grotsnot: also gold
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: well ok reapir the salt
Banzailizard: and hold off growth where we can
Grotsnot: we can manage growth at least after size 2
Grotsnot: which reminds me...
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: we should look a the med though see what there is to raid soon
Grotsnot: true true
Grotsnot: so we have at least the farm but probably better options
Grotsnot: how to order this...
Banzailizard: farm is worth 10 but what is there on the itialian coast?
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: let's pull up the chart
Grotsnot: farm guy could reach a plantation potentially but I bet norway ate it
Banzailizard: oh oh faith on corsocia
Grotsnot: tunisia is guarding their only option with a sword
Grotsnot: I think corsica is too far
Grotsnot: raiding costs 3mv
Banzailizard: this turn but we can beat norway there they are going to be stuck raiding southern france for a while
Banzailizard: we really need the faith
Grotsnot: damnation we're one tile away with our rutter boat
Grotsnot: oh tunisia we could maybe get a fish
Grotsnot: it doesn't look like sicily has faith but maybe they'll have different improvements this game
Banzailizard: should we look?
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: I'm thinking start with E-E with our yellow boat by tunisia
Grotsnot: see if there's fish to pillage or norway is already there
Grotsnot: if not, can go check sicily
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: sounds good
Grotsnot: up in barcelona we should go east and see if they took the wine tile
Grotsnot: oh hey more dudes in the water we could slug
Grotsnot: yep got fish
Banzailizard: ?they did
Banzailizard: or we do
Banzailizard: looks like we could pillage
Grotsnot: we can pillage al-q's fishies
Grotsnot: I'm thinking take what we can get even if it's not faith, it's still 100g
Grotsnot: and 60VP
Banzailizard: yes witht he damaged boat
Banzailizard: will help heal
Grotsnot: also the tooltip lies - fishies are full heal
Banzailizard: go for it
Grotsnot: yeah dammit norway
Grotsnot: hmmm hmm hm
Grotsnot: do we bother scouting up the gulf or beeline east
Banzailizard: b line east
Banzailizard: they have 3 ships in it
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: gotta keep the red one out of range, but it can scout a little
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: shame just too far to slug the pike
Grotsnot: ok chart says full move safe
Grotsnot: so glad I took these maps
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: I mean unless they had an archer there
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: yeah there's that
Grotsnot: <_<
Banzailizard: looks fine though
Grotsnot: 25v40, I think we'd have lived
Grotsnot: don't archers get a malus vs boats now too?
Banzailizard: next turn it can maybe pillage the fush for health
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: no idea
Grotsnot: we can have the other boat over there cover the fish from those pesky norskjavlar and sack the CH
Banzailizard: ohhh
Banzailizard: I like that
Grotsnot: chart claims going around north would run smack into an encampment
Grotsnot: cool cool
Grotsnot: bah yeah just farms and market
Grotsnot: also marble but too far
Grotsnot: oh sweet another medpack
Grotsnot: ...I mean seafood :P
Banzailizard: ha
Banzailizard: we might be able to take the city by sea
Grotsnot: mmm
Grotsnot: unlikely without a ram I suspect
Grotsnot: it does only have ancient walls, though, that helps
Banzailizard: how are they doing back west
Banzailizard: on north africa
Banzailizard: norway was trying
Grotsnot: it didn't look like they continued the attempt but we lost vision so hard to say
Grotsnot: walls still at half
Banzailizard: oh look the danes
Grotsnot: ah yeah
Grotsnot: interesting
Banzailizard: I susspect they just want vission on what we are up to
Grotsnot: scouting plus south france siege assistance?
Grotsnot: yeah and pillage is still nice when you can get it
Banzailizard: speaking of
Grotsnot: maybe wanna snipe something ERE as revenge for wolin :P
Banzailizard: southern france/
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: should we take the farm while it's there or boogie over east
Banzailizard: can we pillage the bay of bisque?
Grotsnot: ah!
Grotsnot: yes!
Grotsnot: some nice stuff even!
Banzailizard: yeah move him one south east
Banzailizard: and the other guy in to pillage faith
Grotsnot: huzzzzzahhhhhh
Grotsnot: money money money
Banzailizard: and faith an points
Banzailizard: sweet sweet VP
Grotsnot: hmm pressure in birka this time
Banzailizard: is birka converted?
Banzailizard: its 50%
Grotsnot: not yet no
Banzailizard: close though
Grotsnot: Ladoga took until like 300 pressure to flip I think >
Banzailizard: I say go east
Banzailizard: the farm si worth what 10 vp?
Grotsnot: 60 pre-religion
Banzailizard: oh hmm
Banzailizard: ok pillage it then why not
Grotsnot: 'o'7
Grotsnot: (horned helmets are historically inaccurate but still fun)
Banzailizard: ha didn't eben notice
Banzailizard: send the 2 prompotion guy in mid west med twoards corsica
Grotsnot: I'm leaning towards leave the pike alone
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: I would send that guy to corsica
Banzailizard: to ravage itally
Banzailizard: the rudder due east
Banzailizard: to be useful
Banzailizard: I spy faith
Banzailizard: stop next to it and pillage next turn
Grotsnot: oh
Banzailizard: north
Grotsnot: so around to the north with the rutter then?
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: around north with that guy
Grotsnot: damnation
Banzailizard: close enough to pillage next turn
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: frikkin norwegians
Banzailizard: bastards
Banzailizard: how
Grotsnot: at least there's seafood
Grotsnot: they get the +2mv for boats
Banzailizard: who knows maybe they will leave it
Banzailizard: in favor of other pillage
Grotsnot: I'm thinkin 2N? next to monastery and fish
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: I am surprised the converted as quick as they did
Grotsnot: nice thing about fish is it doesn't end turn, while coastal raids do
Banzailizard: I would have stayed pagan longer to get more points
Grotsnot: well I think they might have only converted last turn
Banzailizard: since they have those nice longships
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: not sure how it was delayed so long but whatever
Banzailizard: looking at the charts
Banzailizard: we can either go for pisa or for rome
Banzailizard: for the next monestary
Grotsnot: oh nice, at least norway is still a tier 1 govt too
Grotsnot: ^oky doky
Grotsnot: Stable for norway
Grotsnot: interesting
Banzailizard: we get tier 2 next turn too which is nice
Grotsnot: I didn't think that boost was worthwhile
Grotsnot: ^yeah!
Grotsnot: so we're at worst tied with norway
Grotsnot: who is now the leader with that gross amount of vinland points
Banzailizard: uhg
Banzailizard: well looks like danemark has stalled out a bit
Grotsnot: now bear in mind we don't have this turn's VP included in the total
Grotsnot: so we're only like 1100 behind :P
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: beind denmark that is >_<
Banzailizard: hey not bad we earned 1000 points in a turn
Banzailizard: that is a really good turn
Grotsnot: we did?
Banzailizard: didn't we?
Banzailizard: oh maybe not
Banzailizard: guess 500
Banzailizard: but still
Grotsnot: I could about 1900
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: good turn indeed
Grotsnot: and we still have a city to settle
Banzailizard: and more faith pillages to give more VP
Grotsnot: so you think sit here or go NW
Banzailizard: we can hopefully get a ton of religious vp
Grotsnot: :D
Banzailizard: sit here that way we can break for rome if needed or pisa
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: norway is sitting where we wanna be >
Grotsnot: hmm worth popping up to spy Faeroes proper?
Banzailizard: why not
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: its 2 tiles away
Banzailizard: you can see the shallows
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: yeahh norway got the hut, figured as much
Banzailizard: is that in someone's boarders?
Grotsnot: ok back south through irish sea
Grotsnot: hm?
Banzailizard: nvm
Banzailizard: the movement outlone
Grotsnot: oh hi settler
Banzailizard: make it look like that
Grotsnot: are you going to iceland
Grotsnot: ^ahhh gotcha
Grotsnot: wow quite the force up here
Banzailizard: really hurt thought
Banzailizard: will take a while to heal up
Grotsnot: >:D
Grotsnot: denmark is still stuck up around Odense too
Banzailizard: so we have the ukrine to deal with
Grotsnot: can only hope the slow going will continue
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: settle first?
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: archers backed off interesting
Grotsnot: some free scouting while we're on the way
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: they scurred
Banzailizard: oh man look at those sweet monestaries
Grotsnot: hells yeah
Grotsnot: and they're all for us
Banzailizard: I can hear the monks running right now,
Grotsnot: no no remember they spontaneously and mysteriously died
Banzailizard: ha
Grotsnot: we're selfless liberators
Banzailizard: not sure if that was Khazar territory at this time or not
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: dunno
Banzailizard: I think the Rus settled there to compeate with the Khazars to be honest
Banzailizard: might as well work the 2 food
Grotsnot: interesting! This corner of the world I'm weak on the history
Grotsnot: well don't we want to stall growth?
Banzailizard: yeah I suppose no enough production to be gained by growth either
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: hnn
Grotsnot: hmm*
Grotsnot: kiev, is it worth giving up 3gpt to slow down growth by 1 food?
Banzailizard: also the Khazars are neat they converted to judism to be friends with both the ERE and the muslim Caliphate
Grotsnot: oh yeah I remember something about that
Grotsnot: clever bastards
Banzailizard: 1 food slows down by how many turns?
Grotsnot: only 1
Grotsnot: so may as well get the money
Banzailizard: then no
Grotsnot: so odessa
Banzailizard: should we buy a LS?
Grotsnot: buy boat, ram?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: zerker maybe? Probably a little superfluous with the one we got last turn
Banzailizard: yeah boat and ram
Banzailizard: boat can scout while zerkers get in possition
Grotsnot: sounds good
Grotsnot: speaking of
Grotsnot: run them up into the archers' faces or try and be coy about it
Grotsnot: wait for our own archer
Banzailizard: well they have 3 archers
Banzailizard: so I am iffy on being too agressive
Grotsnot: I figure more pillage sooner the better but last time I tried that a zerker got a face full of arrows
Grotsnot: oh we do get 1 shot in
Banzailizard: I would pop them with an arrow and move somewhere we can land a killing blow next turn
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: wait
Grotsnot: shoot from city I'm guessing?
Banzailizard: was the other archer 1 north?
Banzailizard: not one south?
Grotsnot: I just checked the screencap
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: yes from the city
Banzailizard: oh nice shot
Grotsnot: so I think the Zap zerker can afford to go full move south
Grotsnot: SE-SE rather
Banzailizard: move just south of the weat
Banzailizard: is what I would say
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: well were
Grotsnot: can still reach baddie territory on the next turn
Banzailizard: did you want him exactly
Grotsnot: I was leaning SE again so he could eat an archer next turn but the safe distance gets the pillaging
Banzailizard: then I would say lets be safe we cannot waste too much right now
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: so 1t SE with this dude I'm guess
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: and heal if possibe
Grotsnot: all righty
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: well he won't heal with the half move but too late now
Banzailizard: well the move was important
Grotsnot: only down 13 so should be fine
Banzailizard: I would rathe rmove than heal
Banzailizard: but if he could move and heal
Banzailizard: would have been best ov all
Grotsnot: true
Grotsnot: is that a promotion anymore?
Grotsnot: I know 4 and 5 had it
Banzailizard: oh the march promotion?
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: IDK
Banzailizard: I don;t think so
Grotsnot: maybe the medic unit does it?
Grotsnot: anyway
Grotsnot: we have a settler to site
Banzailizard: in some respects I like that they show the full tree now for promotions makes it easier but they made it simplier
Grotsnot: yeah I'm conflicted on it
Grotsnot: like the diversity but some trees are just better than others
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: maybe a builder in Apu to follow the settler? we only lose 1 turn of not having the policy
Banzailizard: yeah I was thinking the same
Grotsnot: awesome, makes that one easy
Grotsnot: Birka: always more zerkers, maybe a horse or a lighthouse?
Banzailizard: almost want to say horseman for the movement points
Grotsnot: it is handy
Banzailizard: get down to the south fast
Banzailizard: or use it
Banzailizard: to clear barbs in russia
Grotsnot: flanking bonuses, scouting, eventually faster pillage
Banzailizard: yeah lets do it
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: oh right and odessa
Grotsnot: guessin harbor
Banzailizard: yes for sure
Grotsnot: oh right, we might want to stall Engineering a turn. I'm not sure we'll get the DD activated since Wolin's harbor will be resolved after th
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I am ok with that if you want to
Grotsnot: yeah that's a particularly annoying little detail of the discount formula
Banzailizard: no tech is that pressing right now to be honest
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: swithc it over to military tactics or whatever?
Grotsnot: bleh, miltac sucks
Banzailizard: does it lead to something good?
Banzailizard: I mean at least here it is not a deadend
Grotsnot: could do lances and just eat losing some overflow if and when we boost it
Grotsnot: it still sucks
Banzailizard: what is next?
Grotsnot: leads to castles which is lolbad
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: also miltiary engineering which is almost okay
Banzailizard: ok turn to lancers sure why not
Grotsnot: alternative is to just wait another 3T to get the discount from hacksilver
Grotsnot: assuming the resolution order denies it to us next turn
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: oh right
Banzailizard: that could work
Grotsnot: ok so no change
Banzailizard: not sure how cost scaling works in this
Grotsnot: sucks our culture is gonna start to rot
Grotsnot: but nothing we can do
Grotsnot: ^yeah it's not at the same rate as the base game but I haven't taken the time to iron out the formula
Grotsnot: it's about 5cogs per tech I wanna say?
Grotsnot: at least for chops
Grotsnot: yeah district cost is ~4x what it was at the start
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: anyway I think unless we go to lappland wherever our settler is headed, E-E this turn is good
Banzailizard: no send it east
Banzailizard: we saw the norwegen settler
Grotsnot: I'm wondering if they have another
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: if we loos lapland it won't be the worst thing
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: I'd rather deny them it but at the same time
Banzailizard: its ok
Grotsnot: it's all frozen
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: alright
Banzailizard: I think we are good then
Grotsnot: would just mean they come further east and screw with our dotmap :P
Grotsnot: yup yup
Banzailizard: just remember to post it when done
Grotsnot: yeah <_<
Banzailizard: I figure the reminder can't hurt
Grotsnot: getting close to being able to afford a GA
Grotsnot: ^nope, it helps
Grotsnot: norway is danger close too though, they need like 3 boat kills to buy yet another
Grotsnot: anyway not especially actionable right now let's call it a turn :P
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: just gettin screenshots
Grotsnot: all done
T22:
As predicted, the barb Huscarl suicides into our Zerker and we pick up Sviatoslav on the interturn. Didn't get any opportunity to skip him for a better one so either VTR disables that or getting a GG during someone else's turn horribly confuses Civ 6. Either way, he's most useful to us as Sweden since he has some nice barb radar
Sadly the next GG up for grabs is probably the best one in the scenario: Thorfinn the Mighty aka The Only Way To Get A Corps
Blech. Well, at least Denmark and Norway ought to fight over this dude. A Berseker Corps will give a big leg up to chomping through the AI nations
Anyway, in better news: we pick up Viking and Engineering!
This lets us slot in a couple wildcard policies. We go with Strategos and Navigator for the GPPs. We want to at least pick up Vinland #3 and there are still a fair few GGs to play for.
Queue up Hacksilver (don't remember if I mentioned, Lances got paused at ~45% to see if we can find a knight to boost with) but our is now gonna rot until we get a majority religion. Luckily we shouldn't be more than a turn or two away from that, assuming the Med continues at pace.
Conveniently enough, we pick up a good chunk more pillage down there this turn. Not enough to convert but looking good for next turn
Let's see... up in Lappland we're racing Norway for a barb camp
And down on the Black Sea we start in on Tmutakaran. Unfortunately a misclick strands our Archer out of position
Quote:Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: ok cool here we go
Banzailizard: screen is blank
Grotsnot: still?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: bugger
Banzailizard: let me sne dthe invite
Grotsnot: wanna quit and send me an invite?
Banzailizard: see if that works
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: there we go
Grotsnot: sweet
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: it just gave us the GG
Grotsnot: maybe you can't pass in VTR
Banzailizard: proably
Banzailizard: who is th enext guy
Grotsnot: or the off-turn situation borked it
Grotsnot: well fuck
Banzailizard: denmark will get him
Grotsnot: one of the best ones
Banzailizard: damn
Banzailizard: nothing we could do about that though
Grotsnot: I mean I guess we could have delayed our own
Grotsnot: but wouldn't have been by much
Banzailizard: not really long enough to matter
Banzailizard: we were ahead and danemark was clearly stalling
Grotsnot: bleh
Banzailizard: hmm norway is up by us
Grotsnot: maybe they want the camp money?
Banzailizard: I was thinking GG points but I guess not with housecarls
Grotsnot: shall we nom this archer?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: unless maybe they wantto send a settler for real
Grotsnot: not seeing anyone yet
Grotsnot: curious
Banzailizard: looks like we ost some pop somewhere
Banzailizard: lost*
Grotsnot: we did?
Banzailizard: in the display of events
Banzailizard: or is that just a warning we will lose pop
Grotsnot: oh nah the icon is kinda misleading. it's "not growing" or slow growting
Banzailizard: ah ok
Grotsnot: and dammit the DD didn't trigger as semi-predicted
Banzailizard: oh wait
Banzailizard: did we switch govs yet?
Grotsnot: nope
Grotsnot: screen was janky
Banzailizard: want to do that first?
Grotsnot: oh ha coulda saved a point or two of damage off the archer kill woops :P
Grotsnot: yay govt
Banzailizard: ok so what to fill the 2 wildcard slots with
Grotsnot: strategos/navigation or is there a worthwhile yellow card?
Banzailizard: damn I wonder if the yeilds from pillage
Banzailizard: include VP
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: I doubt it but maybe?
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: it would be super helpful
Grotsnot: shit that's the sort of thing should really iron out with a test game
Banzailizard: yeah should we save here and test quickly?
Grotsnot: I think so
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: mostly just mahs end turn until we are in a good spot
Grotsnot: let's see... this old save is probably christian though
Banzailizard: looks like it
Grotsnot: might take a little bit >_>
Banzailizard: kk np
Grotsnot: too many animations, go faster =_=
Banzailizard: I am off watching something else while you do this
Grotsnot: fair nuff
Grotsnot: ok let's see what this does
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: same VPs, same 100gold, doubled base yields
Grotsnot: so fairly underwhelming
Grotsnot: it's possible the doubled faith gives additional religious pressure?
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: possibly a little more
Grotsnot: but not double
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: proably not worth it
Banzailizard: if they were one policy maybe but not split like this
Grotsnot: that's been my opinion, yeah
Banzailizard: if it gave extra VP I would say yes
Grotsnot: agreed
Grotsnot: sadly now our culture rots until we get a religion. Super annoying
Banzailizard: oh did not realize we needed monotheism for that
Grotsnot: guessin hacksilver?
Banzailizard: uhg well ok really really really need those boosts now
Grotsnot: could do machinery I guess
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: might not be bad
Grotsnot: upgrade the archers, but it's gonna be a slog since no way we're getting two stables
Banzailizard: looks like we might get a knight kill soon
Grotsnot: oh?
Grotsnot: ohh
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Banzailizard: is that a byzentine one?
Banzailizard: or is that the CS?
Grotsnot: byz
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: yo zap why still 3 turns what the hell
Banzailizard: we should fit in the other policy cards
Grotsnot: that's what it was last turn god dammit...
Banzailizard: we kind of go sidetracked
Grotsnot: ah true
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: so I think all the reds are not worthwhile then
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: unless we really want a boat chop
Banzailizard: Leibongr and what?
Grotsnot: but I doubt it
Grotsnot: I was thinking at least Navigator?
Banzailizard: I think that is our best option
Grotsnot: so you like +30% builders better than 2GGPs?
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: remember we're stuck with this config until we get a religion
Banzailizard: right
Grotsnot: or pay to swap
Banzailizard: ok go GG we do not need builders until we get religion anyways
Grotsnot: ah yeah that makes sense
Grotsnot: ok happy with this then yeah?
Banzailizard: yes I think that is best
Grotsnot: cool cool
Banzailizard: eventually we might even want insulae
Banzailizard: but not for a while
Grotsnot: can turn off navigator after we get our first and probably only GA
Banzailizard: kk
Banzailizard: lets work on getting religion then
Grotsnot: aye
Banzailizard: how does west med look?
Grotsnot: looks like norway is a butt
Banzailizard: ok go to rome
Banzailizard: they really are taking everything
Grotsnot: oooo holy shit
Grotsnot: site* ha
Banzailizard: yes please
Banzailizard: how cllose is tha tot rome?
Banzailizard: that to Rome*
Grotsnot: hmmm probably shootable but they're distracted by byz
Grotsnot: let's see...
Banzailizard: oh I did not see that knight
Banzailizard: byz are invading itally then I guess
Grotsnot: yeah Justinian gonna Justinian
Grotsnot: so yes it is shootable
Grotsnot: but we can sit on the fish in case we get shot
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Banzailizard: plus we have stuff in southenr russia to pillage and stuff in scily
Grotsnot: ohhai byz
Banzailizard: oh wow
Grotsnot: hey now birka's religious
Banzailizard: birka flipped
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: and there was much rejoicing
Banzailizard: ha
Grotsnot: 2 down 3 to go...
Banzailizard: those say they will take forever so just need to raid
Grotsnot: oh nice a plantation by al-q
Banzailizard: ok and we can heal up our one boar
Grotsnot: yup
Banzailizard: move the one in sciily to krabs
Banzailizard: actually
Grotsnot: shame he can't reach the marble
Grotsnot: oh
Banzailizard: one away from krabs
Grotsnot: oops
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: was going to say raid the farm
Grotsnot: still can
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: well ok do that
Banzailizard: more VP
Grotsnot: and from here we bogart the fish too
Grotsnot: yeah exactly >:D
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: oh. coulda raided the CH again
Banzailizard: really?
Grotsnot: the fire icons threw me off
Banzailizard: weird
Grotsnot: yeah we did the market last time
Banzailizard: well it will be there next time
Grotsnot: not the district
Grotsnot: yup
Grotsnot: or norway will have left us the marble
Banzailizard: so plantation and fish raids
Grotsnot: hmm hmm go around south?
Banzailizard: yes we cannot raid anything there
Banzailizard: and south also get's us closer to east
Banzailizard: and away form the city with arrows
Banzailizard: let norway hopefully take the shot
Grotsnot: sounds good to me
Banzailizard: we want to get to the balkans for more faith pillage soon
Grotsnot: north could maybe snag something off italy but requires perfect moves from byz so yeah I like south then east
Banzailizard: If I were norway right now I would be trying to cut us as Sweden off from as much faith as possible
Grotsnot: right because sweden is such a threat right now
Banzailizard: we are their only main naval competitor
Grotsnot: I suppose so
Grotsnot: scores are still abysmal
Banzailizard: no reason not to kick us while we are down
Grotsnot: yeah I was just hoping they'd focus on denmark :P
Grotsnot: can still hope they have the bandwidth to kick both of us I guess
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: so france, should we check it out or just skedaddle easterly
Banzailizard: we can proably get some stuff right now in northern iberia
Banzailizard: move one hex south
Grotsnot: helllllll yes
Grotsnot: two more monasteries
Banzailizard: wait that is fire
Banzailizard: oh yeah
Banzailizard: nice
Grotsnot: and a free builder
Banzailizard: and a free builder
Grotsnot: JINX
Grotsnot: proper jinx this time hahaha
Banzailizard: who will never make it home
Grotsnot: anyway
Grotsnot: ha true
Grotsnot: only 1 charge so whatever
Grotsnot: he can scout maybe
Banzailizard: we could send him to scout the new world
Grotsnot: oh we could stick him in france somewhere to get in denmark's way
Grotsnot: or britain for norway
Banzailizard: he will just get eaten in france
Banzailizard: by the franks
Grotsnot: I kinda wanna try and send him up to whales and just sit on it
Banzailizard: oh man
Banzailizard: that is so mean
Banzailizard: we should do it
Grotsnot: probably too slow but it'd be fukkin funny
Banzailizard: its a 1 charge builder
Banzailizard: might as well send it
Grotsnot: >:D
Banzailizard: wait
Grotsnot: iceland does have 2 whales
Banzailizard: sit it on norway's dyes
Banzailizard: in scotland
Grotsnot: already connected
Banzailizard: they only have one of those
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: well shit
Grotsnot: we'll find something, he can't move this turn anyway
Banzailizard: did we flip anything else with that monestary?
Grotsnot: ah norway got oligarchy on the same turn
Grotsnot: riga!
Grotsnot: 2 to go!
Banzailizard: we have so many small cities this should go quicker
Banzailizard: so long as Kop does not eat a bunch
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: anyway let's wrap up the north theatre, thinking check out irish sea
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: WOAH cornwall dropped like a rock
Banzailizard: I think its technically the sea of mann
Grotsnot: shit could we have stolen that
Banzailizard: must have been a ram or catapult
Grotsnot: hopefully denmark has all the tiles filled
Banzailizard: they proably do
Grotsnot: if we coulda sniped that I'm gonna be a little peeved
Grotsnot: ugh god dammit pathing
Grotsnot: you useless shit
Banzailizard: they almost certainly had all the southern ones filled
Banzailizard: so I doubt we could steal it
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: so brings us back to southern france
Banzailizard: looks like they take almost all of england so that means norway will go for spain
Grotsnot: slow journey thankfully
Grotsnot: maybe they're race to poitiers
Banzailizard: nothing left for us in southern france I say head east
Banzailizard: maybe
Banzailizard: unless we want vision
Grotsnot: looks like there are 4 pillagables in the fog, but I bet norway is on em
Grotsnot: it costs like 1 or 2 move to check
Banzailizard: try one move at a time
Grotsnot: kk
Banzailizard: I do not mind having vission on toulouse
Banzailizard: or narbonne whatever it is
Grotsnot: hmm hmm hmm
Banzailizard: ok east it is
Banzailizard: nothing for us here
Grotsnot: from the charts, 1 NE could show something
Banzailizard: unless you have something you want
Grotsnot: unless norway got both already
Banzailizard: well they have 2 ships by pisa
Grotsnot: try it?
Banzailizard: sure
Banzailizard: why not
Grotsnot: they're both faith
Grotsnot: ok cool
Grotsnot: MWAHAHAHA
Banzailizard: can we raid it?
Grotsnot: yessir
Banzailizard: ( I am on a slight delay it seems)
Banzailizard: ok raid away
Grotsnot: question is whether we want to draw a crapton of arrows to block norway from the plantation and get both
Banzailizard: norway might draw some arrows too
Grotsnot: the city-state ought to have an encampment E of the wine
Banzailizard: CS goes and they might perfer the norway ship next ot them
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: well if it is east of the wine
Banzailizard: we draw 2 arroes either way
Grotsnot: could run this boat up to soak some fire but getting east is probably more valuable?
Grotsnot: ^oh true
Banzailizard: Yes running east is more important
Grotsnot: so yeah only difference is narbonne itself
Banzailizard: can 3 arrows sink us?
Grotsnot: hmmm
Grotsnot: doubtful?
Grotsnot: 25v40 x3
Grotsnot: right?
Banzailizard: I think you know the numbers better than me
Grotsnot: should be like 60 damage, maybe?
Grotsnot: unless the franks have a xbow
Banzailizard: honestly monestary is worth it at this point
Banzailizard: we are wasting culture and short VP
Grotsnot: ok so block the plantation then
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: we need religion asap
Grotsnot: suck it norway
Grotsnot: now it is we who are blocking you kekeke
Banzailizard: any more conversions from that?
Grotsnot: unlikely from 1 let's see
Banzailizard: nope not unless kiev
Grotsnot: workin on apu, gonna be a little bit
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: well we have 2 on the black sea to help
Grotsnot: we still have the plantation at al-q but this has been an excellent turn for religion
Grotsnot: I'm guessing convert the turn after next
Banzailizard: yes been an 4excellent turn in general
Grotsnot: ok so the mug by sardinia
Grotsnot: do we wanna rush the straight by sicily or go south around
Banzailizard: go east young man
Grotsnot: little longer but avoids arrows
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I am ok with going south
Grotsnot: hmm this guy lacks promotions I was leaning toward eat some arrows to go faster
Banzailizard: that is fine too
Banzailizard: putting it like that
Banzailizard: east is better
Grotsnot: o7
Grotsnot: and pressure on norway to pillage in place instead of going to greece
Banzailizard: well good news is Byzantium has its army in itally
Banzailizard: maybe less for us to take on
Banzailizard: plantation?
Grotsnot: indeed!
Grotsnot: and yeah
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: could stick around and get the farm and sheep
Grotsnot: like for what to do after the plantation
Banzailizard: hey those are VP I am ok with that
Banzailizard: we should upgrade soon too
Grotsnot: cool cool
Grotsnot: oh right
Grotsnot: too bad that and pillaging both end turn
Banzailizard: yeha
Banzailizard: pillage first we need those VP more than saving EXP
Banzailizard: and we get less VP after conversion right
Grotsnot: ok he can reach the farm and sheep from here next turn
Grotsnot: ^correct
Banzailizard: so raid now upgrade latter
Grotsnot: kickass apu only 1 raid away hopefully
Grotsnot: maybe 2, ladoga got stuck at half for a bit
Banzailizard: 10 cities and we need 5 of them comverted
Banzailizard: converted*
Grotsnot: ooo we could get one at Tmut with our boat I think
Grotsnot: woooo
Banzailizard: oh that would be nice
Banzailizard: pays for the boat buy too
Grotsnot: indeed!
Banzailizard: and we can kill off 2 archers
Grotsnot: all 3 even
Grotsnot: if our archer does well enough
Grotsnot: unless we wanna spare it for a turn for GGPs
Grotsnot: ehh maybe we should
Grotsnot: Corps guy is really good
Banzailizard: we could take 3 out if our archer does well
Banzailizard: but 2 for this turn for sure
Banzailizard: zerker moves due east 2 tiles and the other south 2 tiles
Banzailizard: 2 archers dead
Banzailizard: third cannot kill the zerker I think
Grotsnot: ah the city could shoot our yellow zerker if he kills the full health one
Banzailizard: lets move the LS up and see if thye have anything back there
Grotsnot: wow that is a lot of archers
Banzailizard: wow
Grotsnot: ARGH FUCK
Grotsnot: damn you ui
Banzailizard: yeah...
Banzailizard: well
Banzailizard: maybe he will draw an arrow
Grotsnot: god dammit
Banzailizard: move LS up to raid
Grotsnot: that's what I was trying to move >:|
Banzailizard: and our one zerker due east to kill the hurt archer?
Grotsnot: crapsacks
Grotsnot: ugh they could kill the archer
Grotsnot: bunch of shit
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: if we pillage from next to the city we can reach another monastery next turn
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: at least no more damn archers
Grotsnot: heyy apu converts
Grotsnot: 1 to go
Banzailizard: ok getting tghere
Banzailizard: is ti 4 or 5 needed?
Banzailizard: we have 10 cities
Banzailizard: 5 is half
Banzailizard: sorry I mena 5 or 6 needed
Banzailizard: do we need a majority or just half?
Grotsnot: I thought 5 but norway sat unconverted at 2/4 for a while
Grotsnot: so maybe it's 6
Banzailizard: might be based on pop as a tiebrearker
Grotsnot: could be
Grotsnot: so eat full health or half health...
Grotsnot: neither is tmu territory sadly
Grotsnot: if we go for full health the city could shoot him
Banzailizard: I would say half helath
Banzailizard: loose less HP ourselves
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: true, only by a couple, but that could save his bacon
Grotsnot: and now zap is back to 2t for the zerker as it should be
Grotsnot: did I imagine the 3 before o_O
Banzailizard: nope
Banzailizard: but the UI is weird
Banzailizard: our actual score is
Banzailizard: 2485
Grotsnot: wow I think we got 7 pillages this turn
Grotsnot: 8!
Grotsnot: go team
Banzailizard: should we convert the barbs in the north?
Banzailizard: does he only convert one barb?
Banzailizard: or any adjacent?
Grotsnot: yeah 1 charge only
Grotsnot: uhh
Grotsnot: all adjacent I think?
Grotsnot: I almost like his ability to see barbs in the fog better :P
Banzailizard: ha
Banzailizard: didn't even notice
Banzailizard: oh we should eat that barb camp in the south too
Grotsnot: yep
Grotsnot: can move the convoy
Grotsnot: ah
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: just eat it we don't want to waste time going back
Grotsnot: I think pop the camp is worth a move?
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: well at least we have a lot of money now
Grotsnot: :D
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: GA?
Grotsnot: worth it?
Grotsnot: it is approximately all our money
Banzailizard: how much money does danmark have?
Banzailizard: are we at risk of losing the 3rd?
Grotsnot: denamrk don't have shit for gold, they spend it right away
Banzailizard: norway?
Grotsnot: ooo lances for denmark
Banzailizard: wow
Grotsnot: lots of money but less than us currently
Banzailizard: then we are ok sitting on it
Grotsnot: and they don't get pillage gold anymore I think?
Grotsnot: hmm hmm hmm hmm
Banzailizard: I am ok with waiting I think and maintaining the flexibility
Banzailizard: if we loose multiple zerkers int he south we might want to buy out replacements
Grotsnot: ah true
Banzailizard: could happen even if unlikly
Grotsnot: just calculating how much gold they'd need
Grotsnot: nearly 3k
Grotsnot: not impossible if they flip out of religion somehow, but unlikely enough I think we can get away with stalling a turn
Grotsnot: probably not more than one
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: but we may as well get something out of navigator :P
Grotsnot: so wolin
Grotsnot: zerker? trader maybe?
Banzailizard: trader?
Banzailizard: I was going to say trader or horse
Grotsnot: ah right they started with an encampment too
Grotsnot: hmm hmm hmm
Grotsnot: traders are up to 200g to buy
Grotsnot: so almost 20T to pay off
Grotsnot: I like the horses for pillage+flanking but they're fragile
Grotsnot: kinda leaning trader if we're gonna convert soon and lose out on pillage golds
Banzailizard: yeah I have no idea
Grotsnot: all right, well pony is fewer turns
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: and having only 1 from birka means it'll probably just die
Grotsnot: but 2 can maybe have some fun
Banzailizard: if nothing else its a lot of raiding potential
Grotsnot: yep!
Banzailizard: anything else left?
Grotsnot: good to patch salt?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: main thing is where to send the settler
Banzailizard: especially since we will have religion soon
Banzailizard: hmm settler should go...
Grotsnot: ooo kop is even happy now
Grotsnot: we should get our dotmaps merged
Banzailizard: either between kiev and riga
Banzailizard: along the trade route
Banzailizard: or where we just killed the barb camp
Banzailizard: or I guess
Banzailizard: maybe out west?
Banzailizard: east*
Banzailizard: weast
Grotsnot: ha
Banzailizard: by the east dear
Banzailizard: ish
Banzailizard: so bascially SE of Ladoga
Grotsnot: ahh
Grotsnot: well ladoga is getting a settler too
Grotsnot: do we want to attempt trading luxes to our cousins?
Grotsnot: the excess truffles for dyes or something
Grotsnot: or screw them they can't have our stuff
Banzailizard: not yet but later
Banzailizard: once we are hitting our caps
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: so no reason to rush this one over to a 2nd mercury
Banzailizard: yeah not yet
Grotsnot: so I think the main dotmap question is whether to cram one in along the mountains
Grotsnot: other than that little shift I think ours were the same
Banzailizard: I think its fine along the mts
Banzailizard: its actually not an aweful spot
Banzailizard: good production some food
Banzailizard: sheep in 2nd ring
Grotsnot: my red dot just sucks ass due to no first-ring tiles
Banzailizard: I would say the other good spot
Banzailizard: is by the river and the dear
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: I think that is a generally good spot
Banzailizard: that will develope quickly
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: ok threw up some pins just to make sure we're on the same page
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: ok so ladoga's settler will go to the north site
Grotsnot: wonder if we should split off a huscarl to protect it
Banzailizard: I would
Banzailizard: ok'
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: so then the other heads south
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: so were you leaning toward the dry mountains for better production?
Banzailizard: yes that is where I was leaving
Banzailizard: leaning*
Grotsnot: my dotmap was oriented around maximizing the river housing
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: oh wait
Banzailizard: that is not on the river
Banzailizard: hmm
Grotsnot: can chop out an aqueduct
Banzailizard: true
Banzailizard: is it that much less production for setltign wet thoguht?
Grotsnot: it does leave a slightly better spot open for the middle city
Grotsnot: uhh
Grotsnot: oh there's the copper
Grotsnot: but we lose the sheep and 1st-ring forests
Banzailizard: I would say wet
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: means housing
Banzailizard: which means pop
Banzailizard: which means VP
Grotsnot: yeah exactly
Grotsnot: have some time to reconsider too
Grotsnot: oh and sviatoslav
Grotsnot: should probably go east
Banzailizard: I sort of want to try and grab 2 barbs
Banzailizard: but yeah
Banzailizard: east acomplishes that too
Grotsnot: I'm not sure the units barbs spawn are worth their upkeep :P
Grotsnot: spears and swords
Grotsnot: huscarls are nice though
Grotsnot: oh the steppe sometimes has horse archers those would be sweet to capture
Banzailizard: oh really?
Banzailizard: ok we can keep him around for tha
Banzailizard: t
Banzailizard: not like it costs us anything
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: just keep him east as added defence
Grotsnot: his VP is already earned
Grotsnot: all right unless we want to purchase something we're set
Grotsnot: could get a trader if we're not slow-building it I guess
Grotsnot: got a few options to double down on Odense
Grotsnot: with 17t to profitable
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I say sit on the cash for now
Banzailizard: we might need it for a GA or units
Banzailizard: or maybe both
Banzailizard: would hate to be short
Banzailizard: traders do not count for VP
Grotsnot: true
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: arguably 12gpt is 1VP/turn
Grotsnot: but yeah let's save it
Grotsnot: so then I think we are all done
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard left the chat.
All right, let's see if I can crank through T23. Sorry for the decline in reporting quality... if I can get my shit together and keep up with contemporary stuff it'll get better
So, the big news is our belated conversion to Christianity We have to be careful and order our pillages all over the central Med correctly so that we maximize the from Odin while we have it.
This lets us flip our cities back into growth mode, so as good a time as any to check in with everybody - spoilered for space since we have like 10 cities now
In the west we spy a Danish convoy headed down to Iberia. Interesting... would have expected them to be steamrolling through France. Suppose it's better to race Norway and backfill later? Cuz Norway is also pretty active around here with their Longships
And we'll round things out for now with the current state of the rest of the world:
Score is going up and we'll see some solid gains next turn as well with a few pop growths
GPPs aren't doing the best but could be worse. We can afford to buy either, but it's a heavy cost so we're gonna put it off while we can.
With transcript:
Quote:Banzailizard joined the chat.
Grotsnot: so Denmark got frigging Feudalism already
Grotsnot: also Cornwall but that one was expected
Grotsnot: Norway spent a chunk of their money
Grotsnot: so we could *probably* get away with stalling the GA another turn
Banzailizard: ok back
Banzailizard: any idea what they spent it on
Banzailizard: and where is feudalism in this tree
Grotsnot: not sure what they spent on
Grotsnot: not a great person
Banzailizard: ok maybe lets go around the map one theater at a time?
Grotsnot: probably in the neighborhood of 400-500 gold?
Grotsnot: we've got at least 3 holy pillages this turn
Banzailizard: did we do them or not yet?
Grotsnot: we should probably delay them until after any secular pillage to maximize gold/VP in case it flips us
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: no I haven't taken any actions yet, just reviewing
Banzailizard: where to start? western med?
Grotsnot: my misclick cost us the archer >
Banzailizard: or end there for pillgeas
Grotsnot: at least it seems like they didn't do real damage to anything else in that area
Grotsnot: hm
Banzailizard: and it happens at leasst its just an archer
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: so poitiers already repaired a thing
Banzailizard: is it worth going back?
Banzailizard: send the builder to check
Grotsnot: Iberia is still on fire so I suspect so?
Grotsnot: oh good idea
Grotsnot: bah
Banzailizard: norway might have it blocked up
Grotsnot: too far
Grotsnot: no enemy boats though
Banzailizard: ok so we could pillage that
Banzailizard: what are the other targets?
Grotsnot: if they repaired it we might also get a builder
Grotsnot: our boy by rome can heal with fish and then pillage the monastery
Grotsnot: arles blocked the plantation but at least we blocked norway
Banzailizard: the fish heal wont end the turn?
Grotsnot: nope
Grotsnot: pillages don't
Grotsnot: but coastal raid is a special ability
Grotsnot: which does
Banzailizard: ok so that is one move for sure
Grotsnot: so like zerkers can pillage and attack which is baller
Banzailizard: and maybe a pillage in s france
Grotsnot: hmm not seeing anything
Grotsnot: there's a horse in the fog but it's too far
Banzailizard: I meant Poiters
Grotsnot: ohhh
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: sp
Banzailizard: farm in tunis
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: what else do we have
Grotsnot: holy site/crab/plantation in tmu
Banzailizard: copper near lisbon
Grotsnot: unless we wanna save the crabs for healing later
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: I would not since we are converting soon
Grotsnot: iberia is all buring. Need them to repair before we get there
Grotsnot: ^that's what I was thinking
Banzailizard: ah its hard to see that in the fog on some of these
Grotsnot: yeah, even with strategic view
Grotsnot: it's impossible with normal map
Banzailizard: so I agree about the wine
Banzailizard: Poitiers
Banzailizard: lets just grab that while its worth it to us
Grotsnot: ok, I'm leaning toward send the slower boat back and let the fast one work on catching up
Banzailizard: yes I agree
Grotsnot: fast one might even need to double back too if there's a worker still on it
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: needs both
Grotsnot: but still worth it
Banzailizard: I think it is equidistant
Grotsnot: oh right you can see my mouse haha
Grotsnot: oh boy this glitch
Banzailizard: did we want to move both back?
Banzailizard: wait what?
Grotsnot: it's just graphics I think
Banzailizard: we still have a boat right
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: ok good
Grotsnot: we needed both
Banzailizard: ah
Grotsnot: since taking the builder uses a pillage
Banzailizard: weird
Grotsnot: I don't think we got VP for the capture sadly
Banzailizard: I almost would rather leave the builder
Banzailizard: so it can repair the monestary
Banzailizard: for another raid
Banzailizard: all well
Grotsnot: yeah...
Grotsnot: we can throw it back at least
Grotsnot: but need it out of the way for the monastery this turn
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: looks like we could not have gotten any of cornwall
Grotsnot: noooope
Grotsnot: denmark swarmed that real good
Banzailizard: ok so sheep and farm
Grotsnot: sheep gives gold, farm HP
Grotsnot: thinkin sheep
Banzailizard: sheep
Banzailizard: it has a promotion for HP latter
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: so we have two boats waiting to holy pillage
Grotsnot: got narbonne + sicily to move
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: scily of two minds
Banzailizard: 1 kill the housecarl get GA 2 keep going east
Banzailizard: both seem reasonable
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: oh we can do both
Grotsnot: only weakness on the huscarl is it would take 2 boats
Banzailizard: will it?
Banzailizard: ah just
Banzailizard: what if
Grotsnot: we could finish it with the injured one and hopefully a kill nets 3xp for a promotion
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: I think that is the best
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: but move the promoted one East 1 tile frist
Banzailizard: should we hit the comercial hub again?
Grotsnot: hmm hmm
Grotsnot: given the impending conversion I think so
Banzailizard: ok go for it
Grotsnot: he can't reach greece and pillage this turn
Grotsnot: hmmmm
Grotsnot: crabs worth burning for 50VP+100g
Banzailizard: sure do both
Banzailizard: no reason not to
Grotsnot: just eats a medpack when at full health
Banzailizard: eh its fine
Grotsnot: but I think the VP outweighs it
Banzailizard: there are more out east
Banzailizard: even without VP it will be worth eating them latter
Banzailizard: and yeah VP overall
Grotsnot: holy shit 6xp for that poke
Grotsnot: huzzzzzzzah
Grotsnot: ok narbonne
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: to leave or to seek greener pastures
Banzailizard: to leave to seek greener pastures or to stay rather
Grotsnot: norway isn't around to split the arrows so I think leave is probably stronger
Banzailizard: anything on east spain repaired?
Banzailizard: does not look like it
Banzailizard: I am ok with going due east to take what we can
Grotsnot: yeah there's that iron we weren't able to get earlier
Grotsnot: ok
Banzailizard: yeah but that is a 2 turn trip
Banzailizard: in the wrong direction
Banzailizard: let the rudder ships take it on the way east
Grotsnot: cool cool
Banzailizard: nothing in Pisa for us
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: rome maybe if byz leaves something uncovered
Grotsnot: grr mouse but whatever
Grotsnot: leaning SE
Grotsnot: little more flexible
Banzailizard: Its equidistant again
Banzailizard: but sure
Grotsnot: very marginal but it opens up the sicilian farm as an option
Banzailizard: what is Byzantium even attacking?
Grotsnot: gotta love that AI :/
Banzailizard: ok fair
Banzailizard: shall we kill us a housecarl?
Banzailizard: or did we
Banzailizard: oh we did ok
Grotsnot: did
Grotsnot: got the promo
Banzailizard: missed that one but good
Grotsnot: lucky for us Denmark spends most of their gold
Banzailizard: we almost have enough gold to buy the new GG
Grotsnot: ha!
Banzailizard: 600 more
Banzailizard: which we can proably get this turn realistically
Grotsnot: we've got 500 incoming
Banzailizard: IDK if it is worth that but still
Banzailizard: what do scores look like
Grotsnot: I think the GA is more importantly, personally. Denmark is way out ahead of us on GAPs
Grotsnot: we might be gaining on denmark
Grotsnot: Norway's vinland is crazy
Banzailizard: sec let me check our actually score so far
Banzailizard: 2725
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: got another like 2-300 coming from pillage
Banzailizard: yeah so we will almost have closed with Denmark though they are moving on HRE now
Grotsnot: oh fuck
Grotsnot: damn damn damn
Banzailizard: ?
Banzailizard: not enough move points?
Grotsnot: new boat did not have enough move to do both
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: shit
Grotsnot: well
Grotsnot: we have 3 then
Banzailizard: its ok
Banzailizard: any harm from intentionally delaying religion 1 turn?
Grotsnot: maybe I should take more intermediate saves these bonehead errors are killin me
Grotsnot: uhh
Banzailizard: since we have a gaurentee of getting it?
Grotsnot: burned culture but don't think so
Banzailizard: 50 vp in keiv
Banzailizard: but that is it
Grotsnot: well it's not guaranteed since we don't know for sure if it's 5 or 6
Banzailizard: and 11 culture yeah
Banzailizard: oh hmm
Banzailizard: well lets try this turn for it
Grotsnot: yeah kiev is stuck with growth
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: if we are wrong, next turn we will pillage more
Grotsnot: yeah exactly
Banzailizard: we should hit up that wine frist
Grotsnot: at least have the faith bank of tmutakaran
Banzailizard: yeah that is what I meant by a guarentee
Grotsnot: umm
Banzailizard: its got like 4 of them
Grotsnot: is the damn glitch stopping us from pillaging the wine
Banzailizard: well
Grotsnot: at least we have the HS
Grotsnot: lucky
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: and will have the win next turn
Banzailizard: will that give faith?
Grotsnot: we have it blocked
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: that is 5
Grotsnot: well damn
Grotsnot: heyyy there we go
Grotsnot: do we wanna change policies?
Banzailizard: did we get score for that last one?
Banzailizard: and what new policies do we have?
Grotsnot: ok so here's the deal
Banzailizard: looks like no the last one did not count
Grotsnot: right
Grotsnot: we did not get religion points or gold
Grotsnot: but needed a little more push to get the boost
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: at least we're finally here
Grotsnot: let's get some pop going
Banzailizard: almost wondering if it would have been better to intentionally hold off while we raided but might as well get the culture back on track
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: what policies help with that?
Grotsnot: insulae?
Banzailizard: are any of our cities even close to the housing limit?
Grotsnot: just helsingfors which doesn't have the district requirements
Banzailizard: then not worth it
Grotsnot: agreed
Banzailizard: traveling monks looks interesting with hacksilver coming up
Grotsnot: travelling monks could be worthwhile
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: since food routes are good now
Banzailizard: for GG and GA buying but what to strip out
Banzailizard: oh its only domestic
Banzailizard: ok let's look at the civics tree
Grotsnot: hmm
Banzailizard: can we get a theocracy going soon?
Grotsnot: so without chops the 2 holy sites boost is gonna be a pain
Banzailizard: we at least have the district discount
Grotsnot: nah both the Tier 3 govts are a ways off
Banzailizard: what policies does fuedalism give?
Banzailizard: oh hmm
Banzailizard: its not changing
Grotsnot: yeah something's glitched
Grotsnot: if we wanna swap I'll save and reload
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: well honetly
Banzailizard: the first 2 techs seem fine
Banzailizard: we want guedalism and might as well get mercinaries frist
Grotsnot: I think divine right has the best policy card. Mercs is a competitor with the +4/route
Banzailizard: yes
Banzailizard: we need fuedalism or theology though and we have a boost to only one of those right now
Grotsnot: should we try for the 2 HS boost?
Grotsnot: ok cool
Banzailizard: hmm I think we should consider it if we have good places to put them
Grotsnot: HS are kinda weak, probably like 25-30VP over the game
Grotsnot: oooof
Grotsnot: kop
Grotsnot: 0 adjacency
Banzailizard: stave church though
Grotsnot: requires a shrine so heavy investment for 4 faith
Banzailizard: thought, buy a trader in Helsingfors, run a domestic route and build the HS?
Banzailizard: oh
Grotsnot: I guess citizens in HS
Grotsnot: what's that 3 faith/turn?
Grotsnot: bleh onyl 2
Banzailizard: for a total of 6 per turn and little else
Grotsnot: shrine is another +2 with another citizen slot but yeah
Banzailizard: what about logoga?
Grotsnot: so could shove a lot of cogs and 2 0-food citiziens into 2VP/turn
Grotsnot: has forests so better options
Grotsnot: would need to buy a tile for even a +2 still
Grotsnot: oh hmm
Grotsnot: does buying a barb camp tile still clear it
Banzailizard: no clue
Grotsnot: oh apu and wolin have mountains
Grotsnot: those are halfway decent
Grotsnot: +2 each
Banzailizard: I am ok with that
Banzailizard: the only reason I was thinking the forests is I think the stave church gets extra faith
Banzailizard: from woods
Grotsnot: doesn't net us much VP but the boost might be worth it
Grotsnot: ohhh
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: not sure how much
Grotsnot: uhh
Grotsnot: hmm
Grotsnot: "A unique building" helpful
Banzailizard: maybe they changed it in this or even in the base game
Grotsnot: could be....
Grotsnot: I thought I remembered it giving cogs or something
Banzailizard: wiki says its +1 adjacency bonus to the HS
Grotsnot: per wood?
Banzailizard: per forest yeah
Grotsnot: not terrible
Banzailizard: and +1 cog per coastal resourse
Grotsnot: ahhh ok
Banzailizard: I mean in the normal game that is pretty bad when you want to chop everything
Grotsnot: helsingfors can get a good one then
Banzailizard: but here not so much
Grotsnot: yeah :P
Banzailizard: that being said
Banzailizard: I am not sure that it has those properties here
Banzailizard: since it does not say it does
Grotsnot: yeah hard to say
Banzailizard: I would build in Apuole next to the woods though
Banzailizard: and the Mt
Grotsnot: I know from modding that the the tooltips and mountains don't always list all abilities
Banzailizard: if it works that city has a wood bonus and water resourses to work
Banzailizard: if not its an ok city for it
Grotsnot: ok
Grotsnot: hels or wolin for the other? Would be using our overflow chop in hels instead of for a settler
Banzailizard: plus it is already a bit developed so it can aford to build it quickly with the discount
Grotsnot: right
Banzailizard: bhmm
Grotsnot: oh right we should have a CH discount too now
Grotsnot: damn you civ
Grotsnot: we got monotheism
Banzailizard: leaning twoards Ladoga? it already has useful infrustruture
Grotsnot: give me my discount
Grotsnot: hmm true
Banzailizard: Hels would be better dinishing the harbor or the market
Grotsnot: they did finish the harbor
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: hmm
Banzailizard: well that might be ok then
Banzailizard: put it on that one useless tundra tile?
Banzailizard: hope for the best
Grotsnot: so yeah any 2nd disrict would make them eligible for insulae I guess
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: I kinda like the barb camp tile for 6 surrounding forests :P
Banzailizard: I mean I am ok with that too
Banzailizard: just that we have to buy it
Grotsnot: dunno if it's worth the like 75gp
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: I like useing the crapy tile
Banzailizard: that we are paving over here
Grotsnot: it would be good IF we get the stave church bonus
Grotsnot: ahh true
Grotsnot: all right well we can decide where exactly next turn
Banzailizard: I mean basically its spending all that gold for +1 faith over the next best option
Grotsnot: not gonna get more techs to drive up cost
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: apul though
Grotsnot: will run a test for whether the stave church applies
Banzailizard: ah ok
Banzailizard: yeah maybe do that
Banzailizard: alright anything else
Grotsnot: mm convoy and tmu archers
Banzailizard: just carvan and southenr russia?
Banzailizard: kk
Grotsnot: lappland
Grotsnot: norway is probably gonna snipe the camp but we can try
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: or we promote and let them try
Banzailizard: I would grab the GG points
Grotsnot: kk
Grotsnot: good point
Banzailizard: but they will take the camp
Banzailizard: ouch bad roll
Grotsnot: hopefully one huscarl isn't enough to instadrop it
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: ah well he has a promo
Grotsnot: thinkin move the other to birka's cc
Banzailizard: oh and we should rearange birka to grow
Grotsnot: CC gives slightly better heal right?
Banzailizard: no clue
Grotsnot: I think I did - global UI doesn't update
Grotsnot: but yeah will go through all the cities to be sure
Banzailizard: how much pop does denmark have?
Banzailizard: they must be hurting for amenities
Grotsnot: hmmmm
Grotsnot: probably yeah
Banzailizard: becuase they have furs and dyes right now maybe wine?
Grotsnot: just furs and dyes
Grotsnot: mmmm this Salt is so yummy
Banzailizard: so they can support 8 pop over 3
Banzailizard: yeah I hope they are not too salty over that
Grotsnot: *rimshot*
Banzailizard: 11 over right in danmark alone
Grotsnot: but yeah they got religion faster so have been growing like weeds
Banzailizard: though I think they get something from the palace
Grotsnot: yeah
Banzailizard: 7 more
Banzailizard: 18 total but divide by 2 since its every 2 pop
Grotsnot: they have what, 3 cities that need 1 (w/ cap counted due to palace) and 3 that need 2, and Roskilde needs 3?
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: they are just at their limit
Banzailizard: their next capture needs to have an amenity
Grotsnot: aix-la-chappelle has 2
Banzailizard: wine and what?
Grotsnot: salt
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: well at least they do not have a monopoly on it now
Grotsnot: though technically the wine might belong to paris
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: very glad we got wolin
Banzailizard: they are going to get almost all of the HRE
Grotsnot: thank you lucky coinflip
Banzailizard: so they will get paris too
Banzailizard: norway might take gasgony
Grotsnot: yeah I think the only thing they won't is the off-chance norway can beat them to poitier
Grotsnot: yeah exactly
Banzailizard: but that is all I can see them doing there
Banzailizard: if they do
Banzailizard: Norway could agressivly push on Narabone
Grotsnot: IMO it's an easier shot than iberia
Banzailizard: and use ships in the med to kill it
Grotsnot: the moors have basically Early Cossacks and they're a pain in the ass
Banzailizard: yeah
Banzailizard: and they migh as well leave ibera to farm pillages
Banzailizard: even at only 10 a pop its still pretty good
Grotsnot: hmmm yeah Narbonne could be interesting
Grotsnot: only 1 sea tile though
Banzailizard: more salt down there
Banzailizard: did not consider that
Grotsnot: ah true true, my chart was missing that one
Grotsnot: yay glitched builder explorer
Banzailizard: ok means we are closer to one another than we thought
Banzailizard: in terms of max amenities
Grotsnot: sadly yeah
Banzailizard: but we still have more cities to grow and can work more food
Grotsnot: :D
Banzailizard: ok let's wrap this up then
Grotsnot: so we have 6 religious cities
Grotsnot: we'd need 3 new pagan ones to deconvert
Grotsnot: ah and tmut is pagan
Grotsnot: with our two settlers coming that'd do it
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: then we could pillage more
Banzailizard: so for now we want to keep growing
Grotsnot: oh but then we have tmut so it's moot whether to stall their pillage
Banzailizard: then stall out growth when we flip back
Grotsnot: sounds good
Banzailizard: as we take over the ERE
Banzailizard: we will flip back
Grotsnot: I suspect stall out growth is gonna coincide with invading the ERE when we need religion but might be an exploitable gap yeah
Banzailizard: we can always build those HS
Banzailizard: and pop out a few missonaries
Grotsnot: true
Grotsnot: shouldn't be necessary but yeah
Grotsnot: I missionary costs essentially 30VP so don't wanna if we don't have to
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: so eat both these archers or back off the injured zerker
Banzailizard: did we want to buy the GA?
Banzailizard: or wait to see how we do here
Grotsnot: we could
Grotsnot: I think we can afford a turn's stall with norway's spending
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: they need like another 1000 I think
Banzailizard: injured to injured full to full on the zerker archer match up?
Grotsnot: and being catholic they aren't getting it fast
Grotsnot: we could, but that misses out on the monastery pillage
Grotsnot: pretty sure it costs 3mv
Banzailizard: not really worth much at this point
Banzailizard: to pillage that
Banzailizard: like what does it get us?
Grotsnot: 15VP
Grotsnot: essentially
Grotsnot: 10+25faith
Banzailizard: eh
Banzailizard: I would rather play it safe with our units
Banzailizard: and get that pillage next turn
Grotsnot: let's seee
Banzailizard: only one unit can fit on the causeway
Banzailizard: oh
Banzailizard: ok its basically the same
Grotsnot: there's the water but yeah
Banzailizard: I would kill the injured one
Banzailizard: frist
Banzailizard: to get the flanking bonus 2 times
Banzailizard: so move full HP down to kill the injured
Banzailizard: then the injured zerker to kill the full HP
Grotsnot: yeah
Grotsnot: was running quick battle sim
Banzailizard: do you have a program for that now?
Grotsnot: looks like damage is basically equivalent to
Grotsnot: Cornflakes' spreadsheet yeah
Banzailizard: can you send me that it would be nice to have
Grotsnot: it works well for 1-off combats, it was the large chains we had trouble with
Grotsnot: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...#pid692136
Grotsnot: so I think even though 15VP is marginal it's the slightly larger margin in this situation
Banzailizard: kk thanks
Grotsnot: oh
Grotsnot: wait
Banzailizard: ?
Grotsnot: cross-attacking lets the injured one get the farm next turn
Grotsnot: though he'll have a promo from killing nvm
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: so pillage?
Banzailizard: sure
Grotsnot: oky doky
Banzailizard: can we attack and then pillage?
Banzailizard: to heal?
Grotsnot: uhh
Grotsnot: I don't think so
Grotsnot: pretty sure attacking ends turn
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: 20 more GGPs woot woot
Banzailizard: well at least we are taking care of these archers
Grotsnot: yep
Banzailizard: move the ram up?
Banzailizard: also we are 30 points closer to the GG now
Grotsnot: think so. we're not gonna need it next turn
Banzailizard: between the barb and these 2
Grotsnot: :D
Grotsnot: I think move the ram 1E just in case Tmu goes apeshit and shoots the hell out of our injured dude and charges with their pike
Grotsnot: or wait
Grotsnot: E-NE
Banzailizard: yeah
Grotsnot: so archer can't amphib it
Banzailizard: ok
Banzailizard: It could survive a pot shot right?
Banzailizard: from the archer?
Grotsnot: the ram?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: yeah you can't shoot those
Banzailizard: ah
Banzailizard: can you send me the scor escreenshots
Banzailizard: I will update the graphs
Banzailizard: brought the excell file on my flashdrive
Grotsnot: minor PBEM 13 spoilers for the transcript but yeah let's just say I know they can't be shot for sure :P
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: and yeah will do
Banzailizard: uhh
Banzailizard: are those all barbs in finland?
Banzailizard: I hope not
Grotsnot: wheeeee
Banzailizard: that would be scary
Grotsnot: I mean they're all pissants but yeah
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: looks like 7 on the map
Banzailizard: you good here then mosrly just moving right?
Grotsnot: think so yeah
Banzailizard: ok
Grotsnot: we decided on the river site for the settler, right?
Banzailizard: yes
Grotsnot: and to delay the GA for another turn
Banzailizard: agreed
Grotsnot: then yeah just convoy
Banzailizard: ok I will be arround if you need me
Grotsnot: worst trader ever
Grotsnot: ^cool cool
Banzailizard: our trade score should shoot up in 2 turns though with hacksilver
Banzailizard left the chat.
)
/turn, they will next turn be at 9/10.
) and will grow like a weed. Upon review maybe we should have gone across the river a tick SW to get in purchase range of the hills but... eh. This is fine.
So kind of a light post but whatever >_>
is now gonna rot until we get a majority religion. Luckily we shouldn't be more than a turn or two away from that, assuming the Med continues at pace.
We have to be careful and order our pillages all over the central Med correctly so that we maximize the 
