[SPOILERS - El Grillo & Charriu PB51] One step at a time

[El Grillo]

Also a fair point, though if his plan from here is to go Wheel->Pottery and build a Terrace in his capital early enough to speed up 3rd-ring culture without having Archery or Bronze Working, then I might be tempted to just settle on the horses and attempt to kill him after all

EDIT2: Disregard everything below, I somehow forgot that superdeath was also EXP so the mystery is solved. Man can I be blind sometimes.

EDIT: I'm a bit puzzled by something from the demographics: top food is working a 4f tile. Either someone netted a saltwater crab or clam but that doesn't seem right since GNP hasn't changed, or someone finished a t10 Worker and improved a capital-adjacent 4t 4f tile...? Something like a flatland plains deer camp? Doesn't seem like anyone could have both built a 10t Worker and finished Animal Husbandry fast enough, which would open up more possibilities for 4t 4f tile improvements, unless one of Zulu/Persia got access to a 4-foodhammer tile (but then their tech timings don't match that, either)? Naturally EXP Inca could've finished a Worker on t10, but they didn't finish a tech until t13 and all farms take at least 5t. Maybe I'm just misreading things again, or forgetting some possibility. I guess GKC could've started next to a plains forest deer so his 10t Fast Worker could finish a camp on t14 if he teched Hunting first (which does match the score increase), but that would be an above-average start to have been given. I guess all of the possibilities involve someone having a 4-foodhammer start, so maybe some players just have those, perhaps as compensation for being coastal? Getting pretty speculative at that point!

[El Grillo]

T15:

Ramk finished his first tech, and top Power rose by 8,000 points to 14,000, so that's surely Bronze Working. GKC finished a tech that took 9 turns and didn't seem to increase total Power, so Agriculture? I took Charriu's advice and let the Scout heal in place.

[Charriu]

To iterate why I think it is safe:

• There is a lot of water around the scout
  
• The northern lake saves the scout against any warriors from Amicalola
  
• The hill 1NW guarantees that no 2 mover can surprise us
  
• If something comes up from that side, we can easily escape east
  
• Amicalolas culture fog-busts for us
  

[El Grillo]

Agreed on all counts, and I do think there's some value in having odds to beat another animal barb in this Scout's lifetime, so it's worth the delay. We've already gotten decent value out of the unit - various Power dips over the past several turns indicate that more than a few players have lost their Scout, though Amicalola hasn't, unfortunately for us.

EDIT: Since it was such a quiet turn, I'll append it here.

T16:

Both EXP players (Amicalola and superdeath) grew to size 2. At home, our pig pasture finished, so we'll be at size 2 as well in a couple turns. We'll get graphs on the Incans at that time, too. Meanwhile, Ramk stopped putting all his espionage points on me so he must've met his other neighbor too. He does have Egypt's graphs, since I've spent so little EP on him.

[El Grillo]

T17:

Another quiet turn.



Amicalola's capital is named after a mountain that's part of the Appalachian trail, which made me smile and wish we could be friends this game. If only there was this much space between our cities in-game



GKC and Mjmd both grew to size 2, GKC probably saved a turn with his Fast Worker, but Mjmd surprises me because he was a turn late in founding. I'm fairly sure he opened with a Worker and not a Work Boat, so something feels a bit off. We'll be growing to size two ourselves at the end of this turn, so he would've needed to have his 6-food 4-turn tile in first-ring, and also have a faster Worker.

[El Grillo]

T18:

The warrior should be able to get some more visibility to our north, I'm thinking of sending it to the northeast first to get vision across those lakes. Depending on how thick these jungles are, this area might not be too heavily contested by Ramk, but I think I'd still like to get Iron Working reasonably soon in order to unlock the gems and settle a cottage-sharing city to the northwest. Maybe the tech path looks something like Bronze Working -> Fishing -> Pottery -> Iron Working? I do think it'll be worth getting Fishing before Pottery so the second city has some decent tiles to grow onto for 4->2 whips.



We'll get graphs on Amicalola next turn. I've started to divert some of the EP spending back to Ramk.

[Charriu]

Mh I'm not totally convinced about Fishing first. Need to see more of the eastern parts. You could also chop and build a cottage 1N of the pig for the second city to grow. We also want cottages and the granary as soon as possible, especially if we want to whip an army against Amicalola.

[El Grillo]

You're right, I played a bit in the sandbox and there's no need for Fishing before Pottery. I thought the Fishing prereq might help, but it doesn't. The second city can build its Granary with a chop and a whip from 3->2, while the capital builds a Settler at size 2 for copper or perhaps the western rice. The capital Granary is probably also best built with some foodhammer overflow from the Settler and a chop and a whip from 3->2. Then the first two cities can swap the pig tile on an offset whip cycle for more Workers and Settlers, or a bunch of War Chariots.

[Charriu]

With the horse and wheat in the second city and the pig and cottage tile from the capital you basically have your 4 tiles to grow on in the second city. At the same time the capitol can work the rice and 4 of those juicy FIN-river-grassland-cottages.

EDIT: Also is the lake 1SE of the gems freshwater?

[El Grillo]

T19:

I'm pretty sure that's a 1-tile freshwater lake SE of the gems, though we'll be able to confirm that soon enough.

We have Amicalola's graphs. My previous guesses about his tech path were wrong, it seems. His power increases are consistent with t13 Animal Husbandry (I eventually figured out that by working a 1f2h0c tile for EXP, his AH would be finished one turn later than mine), t16 growth, t17 Quechua. He finished another tech this turn, but since the charts are delayed by a turn we don't get to see if it contributed to power or not until tomorrow. I'm going to guess that he went for Mining as well, as Hunting could've finished a turn earlier.






I've been doing a bit more sandboxing, there's an interesting decision at the second city about whether to prioritize growth vs military. We could still settle on the horse and chop/whip out 4 War Chariots by turn 38 on the one hand, but I thought I'd try a development-focused plan as well.

t29 Settler finishes, capital starts a Worker
t30 found city2, city2 takes pigs from the capital and starts a Warrior, farm wheat, save gold
t31 farm wheat, turn research back on
t32 farm wheat
t33 farm wheat, BW finishes and start Pottery, revolt to slavery
t34 finish farming wheat, save gold, capital takes the pigs back




variation A, assuming city3 goes to the northwest rice:
t35 capital whips Worker2 to 78/60, city2 grows to size2 and takes the pigs from the capital, turn research back on, Worker1 moves to horse
t36 Worker1 pastures horse, Worker2 moves E and chops
t37 Worker1 pastures horse, Worker2 moves SE and chops
t38 Worker1 pastures horse, Worker2 moves to horse and finishes pasture, city2 grows to size 3 and picks up the horse pasture
t39 Worker1+2 road the horse pasture, city2 finishes Warrior and starts War Chariot
t40 Worker1 moves W and chops, Worker2 moves W-NW and chops (both forest chops now have 1t remaining)
t41 capital finishes Worker3 and starts a WC, city2 grows to size4 onto flat grass forest, Worker1 finishes the chop into city2's War Chariot, Worker2 moves to a forest NW-N of the capital, Worker3 moves to a forest NW-W of the capital
t42 Pottery finishes, save gold, capital swaps to Granary, city2 finishes WC and starts a Granary, Worker1 moves W into the shared flat grass forest, Worker2 and Worker3 chop
t43 city2 1-pop whips Granary at 23/24f and 73/60h, all Workers chop
t44 capital grows to size 2 onto a flat grass forest, all Workers chop (putting 2 forests into capital's Granary), city2 grows to size3 on pigs+wheat+horse and overflows into Warrior
t45 city2 finishes Warrior and overflows into War Chariot, Worker1 finishes chop into capital's Granary, Worker2 and Worker3 cottage the riverside grass 1N of the rice
t46 city2 grows to size4 and swaps to Settler on wheat+horse+2 forests, capital finishes Granary and overflows into WC and takes back pigs, Worker1 cottages in place (this will be city2's one shared cottage with the capital), Worker2 and Worker3 finish their cottage
t47 city2 takes the pig, capital takes the cottage, Worker1 continues to cottage, Worker2 and Worker3 move SE and cottage
t48 Worker2 and Worker3 finish their cottage, capital grows to size3 onto the cottage
t49 city2 2-pop whips Settler to 102/100 and keeps wheat+horse, capital works rice+pigs+cottage, Worker1 finishes cottage, Worker2 and Worker3 move W and road the rice
t50 city2 finishes Settler and overflows to WC, capital grows to size4 onto rice+pigs+cottage+cottage, Settler moves onto the rice, capital swaps to Settler, Worker1 moves to 2/3-chopped forest E of capital and chops it into capital Settler, Worker2 and Worker3 move W and road
t51 Worker2 and Worker3 move W and road, Settler moves 2W and settles city3, city3 takes capital rice, Worker1 moves into forest SE of city3
t52 city2 finishes WC, capital 2-pop whips Settler to 100/100 and keeps pigs+cottage, Worker1 chops, Worker2 and Worker3 move W-W and start farming city3's rice.




Ending situation:
Domestic: 3 cities, 2 Granaries, 3 Workers, 4 improved bonus tiles, 3 forests chopped, 3 cottages
Military: 2 WCs, 3 Warriors

The Worker moves and Granary/Settler timings look okay to me, and we don't drop our 4 improved bonus tiles at any point. However, the tradeoff is that our military is extremely light with 1 WC on t42 and the second on t52, and no extra fogbusting Warriors. Too greedy, perhaps?