Woden's and Chevalier Mal Fet's [Insert Clever Name Here] Team Thread

[Woden]

Thanks for responding aetryn! That is a really weird mechanic. I guess it must be there to prevent the passer from sitting there, waiting forever, for the next player to get the passed GP.

[aetryn]

Thanks for responding aetryn! That is a really weird mechanic. I guess it must be there to prevent the passer from sitting there, waiting forever, for the next player to get the passed GP.

Probably also to make passing a costly action. If you can pass with no penalty, why wouldn't you always pass the worse Great People? Discounting the cost of something players have shown reluctance to purchase is a fairly common board game mechanic, and (I believe) the Civ 6 lead designer has a background in board games.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

For you, it sounds like you have a plan but may I give you a little advice. Focus on growth and gold generation before science. Yes, campus will help your tech rate but gold will help your development more and you can augment a lot with gold that you can't with science.  In all your cities, your 2nd or next district should be a commercial hub to get more trade routes. More trade routes equals more food, production, and/or gold plus some science and culture.  I think anywhere that doesn't have a granary should get one ASAP, followed by a lighthouse. Now you may think a lighthouse is not needed since you have a granary but you need a lighthouse to get a shipyard and you need shipyards. Shipyards provide production equal to the adjacency of the RND, therefore you can get high production for running the adjacency doubling card and the production goes to everything. Once you can, place a CH then chop it out when you can into walls or a ship (but remember Maritime Industries is obsolete at Exploration).  Only after a city has a RND and a CH, should you build a campus. Now that we have friendships, I would buy granaries and lighthouse where you can during the next 10 or so turns. We have some time to save for upgrades further down the line and whatever you do, don't upgrade anything you don't need right now. It only increases maintenance costs.  You should be able to double, if not triple, your income in the next 30 turns, especially once you have the Triangle Trade card.  Science will come in due time and it will increase with growth, plus you are focusing on the top of the tree, while Rome and Germany are focusing on the whole tree. Work towards England strengths, then you will be in a better position to win the game.

Lastly, feel free to settle the spot next to your capital. I have plenty of other awesome city locations that I need to settle sooner. It also has another source of niter for you. It should grow quickly, so start with a granary. You could actually build a RND in the lake by your capital. Also, feel free to settle the coastal spot by Valletta. It will be hard to get cities over there and the more cities you have in the northern sea the better.

That sounds eminently reasonable. 

So, I prioritize: Housing (and lighthouses -> shipyards where I can), then Commercial Hubs, and only then go for Campuses if I have slots. Builders where needed.

Right now, I think I need lots of builders. Food resources probably won't pay off over the course of the game at this point, so I think it's sensible to harvest those for quick boosts to young cities. Districts take forever, so any place that I can get a builder to chop, I ought to. Riverside forests might be worth saving, but anything on a hill or plains must go. 

Culture-wise, I'm not sure if I should finish Exploration or not. The government has way more economic slots, letting me grow much more efficiently. The downside is that I lose Maritime Industries, preventing me from using chopped-double-quadriremes to get districts and cities up and running quickly. I lean towards saving it until I get close to Frigates. The double-quads serve me in two ways: Doubling the production of young cities, and building up a navy for the resumption of hostilities in 30 turns. I could perhaps swap to Theocracy? That would give me a better balance of slots, and I save Exploration for later. Make sense? Another big goal is Mercantilism, for my Sea Dogs and Triangular Trade. 

Research-wise, I need to hit Frigates before the DoF expires, but there's no rush to it now - I could wait and see if I can upgrade a Musket to kill a barb (there's a great camp south of Geneva to use for that purpose), and focus my research elsewhere. Not sure what to prioritize here, other than researching towards the twin goals of Steel and Military Science down the road. Need to make it to Steel not too long after Sullla does, or else his Battleships will crush me. Industrialization is a big naval tech, too. I had better look at the tech path and see what boosts we can cooperate on, but Steel is still a ways off, I think - Alhambram failed to reach it by Turn 170 in PBEM5. Frigates will have a decent lifespan. 

Foreign policy: I think it's wise to capture Geneva. With your army released from guard duty, you can roll from Cornflake's capital on the city. I have no Caravels in that sea, just galleys and quads, but they might be useful to land the final blow. Have to stay out of range of the walls and Xbows, though. Our armies need to be shaped for a showdown with Rome/China, I think - Archduke, like I said, I think has peaked. He has no more spare district slots, and not much land to expand to now. Hopefully he and Singaboy get into a war sometime in the next 20 turns, then we can decide which side to join later. 

As for the navy...well, let it be known that England is perfectly content to share the seas with Rome - we'll take the top half, and the Romans can have the bottom.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 117

Okay, I feel more confident now. Woden and I's chances to win the game are much better than they were 5 turns ago. The Roman invasion of Kongo/peace treaty/follow-up shot had me very depressed, as you know, as the other team added multiple valuable cities virtually for free, while we (and by we I mean Woden) slogged through the tough Khmer army. The last holdouts are encircled in the capital now, so hopefully within 5 turns that war will be wrapped up. At the same time, Germany showed what it was capable of, not only leaping back into the game but far surpassing other players in its tech rates. I was left looking at my woeful research, woeful gold, and terrible production and feeling very glum. But we have a plan in place now! We'll fix our weaknesses, hopefully, and have much stronger civs in 30 turns, while hopefully Rome/China/Russia/Germany get themselves embroiled in a war on the other side of the world. Archduke will do a much better job defending than Kongo could mount, although to Japper's credit he's putting up a tough fight now that he's not been caught by surprise. I just hope that he's not counting on DOTF, otherwise he'll get a nasty shock if China attacks. I think in this team set-up Crusade is really the better belief - 'coz you get to defend your allies' cities AND use it offensively. 

On to the turn.

I start the turn, as usual, with a chop:




This shot doubles Jutland's population, I think. The interface is useless, but I think there's enough food to grow to size 4. Jutland has plenty of good tiles to work, even without a builder. I have a builder coming out of Leyte soon - 2 or 3 charges are reserved for a special project that I've been cooking up in the background (although it's easy to guess what it is), but the rest can go to improving Jutland's tea and silks, and possibly a mine. The city is instantly equal to my more mature cities of Leyte and Actium and Aboukir (kind of sad that Actium, 50 turns after its foundation, is still struggling along. I'd like to replay this game from the start with my improved skills, please). 

Sullla comes offering another strange deal:




I think I worked it out, though. I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure that last time he was giving us his countdown til he declared war on Kongo again, maybe to warn us off Japper's cities, maybe to propose a joint war, I dunno. So I think this time he's proposing a joint war/warning us of an attack on Germany? I wonder if he noticed our alliance, and, if so, if he knows when it expires. I go ahead and accept thsi time - message received. I think? Maybe I was supposed to reject and reply with my own? I don't know how this works. 

Here's the front at Kinsasha, Japper's last bastion:



It's a very defensible city. From the north, I have to struggle over several hills and jungle, and around a lake - under bombardment the whole time from the city. Terrain to the east is slightly better - if I had two more knights and a ram I'd attempt an assault from that direction. 1 knight won't do much but get shot to death, though. From the south, the Roman army has to slug through thick forests, marshes, and hills, and Japper has sensibly deployed most of his army there to slow down the Romans as best they can. No, if I wanted to take this city, I'd do it by sea. Float 3 frigates out to blast down the walls, and send your caravel into the bay. I'm tempted to try and get my caravel fleet into the bay there. At 60 to 46 strength I could do some serious damage, even snipe the city if Sullla takes down the walls for me. He'd be extremely irritated with me but I imagine he is already so what the hell. All we have to lose is our only modern fleet unit (I'm saving the other charge for a frigate, then will use Santa Cruz's charges on a frigate and a sea dog...if I don't want 2 frigate armadas. We'll have 1 melee fleet, 2 ranged fleets or armadas, and 1 sea dog armada. Why a sea dog? Because the capture chance is based on strength, like an Eagle Warrior, and a stronger Sea Dog captures more often). 



Further south, I can't tell waht Sullla intends with his knight formation. I think that's most of his mounted strength. Could be flank guards, could aim to snipe the Khmer capital, could be swinging wide to flank Japper's army. His muskets are probably slugging through the jungle. Tough fighting. I don't envy the poor soldiers. 

Finally, my outdated navy is sailing to Geneva. There are barbs around there, and I need to clean 'em out. I'm hoping I don't encounter any barb caravels:



This is a trade protection mission. Geneva is the source of much of my science right now. I still think capturing the city is the right move...eventually. IF other players throw envoys here, and I lose Suzerainity, then we ought to take the city. It's helping ARchduke and Sullla more than it is us without the envoy bonus. 

Finally, an overview of the whole empire:



Settlers for growing, builders for chopping, a ship for chopping into a lighthouse at Actium, and a trader at Navarino to replace the one I lost. Then I'll build a builder there (ugh) to chop at Savo Island and possibly Syracuse once it's founded. I also threw down a couple of +3 Commercial Hubs - I have one district slot at Trafalgar that I'm not sure what to use on (An encampment? An entertainment center? A theater square? An IZ?), and Aboukir needs one more tile to get a good CH adjacency.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 116

Quite turn compared to last turn. I open the save to the boost from Cartography (screenshot didn't take). I was tempted to open the save again to grab it but it really ins't that important. I just like having them for reference. Anyways, the boost completes quests for Geneva and Nan Madol...

This is nice since it will give me a couple more gold when I finish Medieval Fairies next turn and swap into the gold per envoy card. 

At the front...

No units lost but Cornflakes did move his knight back into the city. Not want I needed at this point. This will add +10 strength to the city, which means it will take longer to capture.  I suppose he wants to make this is hard as he can. Don't get me wrong, I am glad that he is fighting to the end, it shows character as a player but, damn it, it is just going to take longer. Instead of maybe 3 turns left, he now has 5 or so. 

Anyways, I rearrange my crossbows to move the injured ones back and bring forward my 2-promoted crossbow to stand on his Holy Site and attack the city at full strength (promotions negate the -17 strength penalty when standing on district)...

I just noticed that the combat screen is missing the +7 boost to attacking cities but the total strength adds up. Must be below the GG bonus, out of view. Anyways, without the knight in there, it would have been a 53 vs 45 and I would have done much more damage to the walls but it ended up being only like 7 or 8 damage to the walls. I move up as many crossbows as I can and hit the walls. I do use one to take out his archer with a 1-shot kill. Here is how it looked at the end of the turn...

He could kill my crossbow with his knight next turn but might leave his knight exposed and it will die then. I did a total of 16 HP of damage to the walls. My ram finishes next turn and will need a 5 turns to get to the city, so depending on how his turn goes, I might fall back and wait or I might push ahead and try to get them down before the ram gets there. 

Back home...

University finishes at Horus and I start a builder. I convert Amon and remove its unhappiness. War wariness is starting to impact my cities so I will have to convert as many as I can to bring them out of unhappiness. I do buy a 3rd missionary to help speed this along and get the boost for Reformed Church sooner. Settler finishes at Isis next turn and I will chop into one at Thoth next turn too. Might be enough to finish it in 1 turn with the added costs and production card but not sure. it will be close.  

Back west, I did place a few pins for potential city sites in the jungle area. 

I think 2 cities should be able to reach most of the wood to chop. I can give one city an aqueduct but the other one will have to get a few farms for housing. Not really concerned about it since the point is to get the production and faith out of the wood. 

CMF, I plan on buying a granary and watermill in the tundra city before shipping it over to you. I might have enough faith by the time the war ends but it may be a few turns before I send it. That way, it will save you from having to build them. Plus, I might start a builder in the city next turn and have to wait until it finishes, then send the city to you. It says the builder will take 14 turns but that is with occupation and will probably only take a few turns past the end of the war. With a watermill, that city should grow pretty good for you and should support working the tundra hills. 

Lastly...

We are back in 2nd place in science. I have as many techs as Germany and CMF has 1 more tech than Russia. It won't last but have to highlight it when it happens.

[Woden]

Nubia-Turn 117

Bonus turn today as everybody was quick to play their turn this morning and Singaboy must of woke up in the middle of the night and played. Started the turn off with ...

And I change policies...

In goes the all important Merchant Confederation to increase my income by +21. I also switch out Professional Armies for Feudal Contracts to build some crossbows at +100% production. Income is now a healthy +27.8, not the best but it is starting to improve. Civic-wise, I start Reformed Church and will research it halfway, then probably go for Naval Tradition(?) for the envoy to put into Lisbon for the +4 to CHs. That plus another CH in Osiris in a few turns should get my income to a more reasonable rate and I can afford to pay for my own upgrades. 

At the front...

All Cornflakes did was shoot at my crossbow with the city center. Notice that there is a trader by the tundra city. Cornflakes must have wanted some gold and science from Geneva. I was going to pillage this turn but his encampment and crossbow could attack the tile it is on (maybe that was his plan), so I will wait until next turn. Should be a good chuck of change. 

I start shooting at the city with my crossbows starting with an unpromoted one...

28 versus 63, what horrible odds. Shoot 3 times with unpromoted crossbows, then hit it with the double promoted one with 45 versus 63. Still not good but better. Here is how it ended up...

Walls sit at 16/50 HP and will fall next turn. Then probably 2 turns to take the city. I have 3 knights in position to attack and can start it next turn but might wait until the following turn to hit it with the crossbows plus knights. Might be able to take it in 1 turn with 3 knights and 6 crossbow attacks, IDK but I need to hurry up...

I am starting to feel the impacts of war wariness on my core cities. The sooner I can end this the better. Speaking of back home...

Walls are down to 1 turn at Thoth, so I chop for 90 yield (225 total) and overflow into a settler, which has 3 turns left. Ouch, those are getting expensive. I did finish a settler at Isis and started moving him towards Khmer's lands. I think this is a mistake since it will take like 15 turns to get over there and it might be better to just start one in the Khmer capital when I capture the thing and have this guy go north. 

one of my missionaries reached Horus and used a charge...

Converting 2 population. I will use the 2nd charge to convert the city next turn, which should help with the happiness plus a little gold and science.

Let hope for another day of quick turnaround and maybe it will be Cornflakes last.

[Woden]

Beautiful job on the VA CMF, really impressed with how you two are doing this game I have to say, it's been a pleasure to watch. I'm really sorry I haven't been able to ded-lurk since the incident. 

As an aside, before I start up a game this summer, I'm going to need to get one of you to explain the new district formula to me, I feel really behind the curve on Civ6 compared to you two these days 

I have been meaning to respond to this but always seem to forget. I would gladly help explain the district discount if/when you start another PBEM and would probably DL you when you do since I am going to take a much need break after 3 back-to-back PBEMs. I came across a high culture strategy that you might be interested in and thing you could do wonders with it.

[rho21]

Woden: screenshots 4 and 5 (before and after combat) in that last report are identical, I think.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Turn 117

I open the save to find another diplomatic message from Sullla waiting:




Now I'm more certain that he's offering a joint war on Germany/Russia in 18 turns. More certain, but not totally certain. What could he have in mind?

1)Sullla is sincere. He recognizes that with a DoF, he and Singaboy can't progress here until t145 at least. They want to leverage Singaboy's prayed-for army and Rome's current military dominance while they can, so he wants to continue expanding the only place they can, at the team that's turtled economically the whole game. Who would get more land - the team ploughing into the teeth of Cossacks and DotF, or the team battling German Hansas over narrow isthmuses (isthmi)? Seems like a toss-up.

2)Sullla just wants to bait us into an attack so we get tangled up and committed, leaving him and Singaboy free to act as they see fit. 

Whatever the case, one thing is certain: Rome/China don't want to be involved in a 2 v 1, and with our alliance with Germany, they're worried that that's what's going to happen. I mean, it probably is, so that's fair. 

The question is moot, though, because we're committed to Germany/Russia until t142, I think, so we couldn't join in even if we wanted to - and I'm pretty sure we don't want to. Cossacks or no Cossacks, Hansas and a crazy science rate or no, I think ultimately Woden and I have a better chance of tackling Germany/Russia one on one than we ever will Rome/China. So, what do I respond to Sullla?

Before I knew how alliances really worked, I might have been tempted by this offer. As it is, my understanding is that this is basically a DoF, plus we get to see each other's units. I have no desire at all to show off my lands to the other team, Sullla's never seen beyond my western coast. The vast bulk of my territory, and all of Woden's, remains out of sight. So an alliance is out of the question. I make a counter-offer:




I strip out the alliance and offer Sullla the same deal. Maybe he'll interpret it as "no, I don't want you having shared vision, but we can attack when you want anyway." Anything that pushes him more towards conflict with the other team is a good deal in my book. 

At Kinsasha, Sullla has the audacity to, er, not allow my Caravel fleet to sail up to the city and try to capture it:




The nerve of some people! I could have pushed with my knight, too. I regret not squeezing in a battering ram. I thought Rome would beat me here by a mile, and that Woden didn't need the back up, so I shifted it to a lower-priority build and it ultimately dropped off my radar all together. I could never push from the northeast with swords and crossbows, but with Japper's army distracted by Rome's, I might have been able to advance now and have an outside chance at the city. Ah, well. C'est la vie. 

I don't want Emperor/ARchduke to see us getting buddy/buddy with Rome/China and worry about a pre-emptive strike, so I try to keep up good relations. Emperor has some spare wines, perhaps he'd like some silk in exchange?




A true Pareto deal - we're both better off. 

My navy sniffs cautiously around Geneva, but no sign of the pirate that torched my trader and some Genevan fishermen:




I don't want to get 1-shot by a caravel out of the fog, so I'm being very cautious here. 

Woden, I can get suzerainity of Geneva back soon. With peace guaranteed once Cornflakes falls, let's keep the city around for the 15% science boost, then seize it if Archduke or Sullla make a play for the city. I haven't done the math, but I think 15% science benefits me more than the envoy bonuses benefit them. I could be wrong, though, and we can just take it and make anotehr trading hub for England. 

My science rate has plummeted as I swap economic policies around. Like I said, more science does me no good if I can't afford the upgrades! I will hopefully get back on track here soon. The current situation:

1)Without Merchant Republic, I don't have economic slots for all the policies I need to boost builders, settlers, AND traders. 
2)If I take Merchant Republic, I can't run Maritime Industries.
3)Without Maritime Industries, Ican't chop out new districts at fresh cities using Quadriremes. 

So my way to square that circle is by taking Theocracy instead. We'll stay there long enough to chop out districts in the new cities, THEN take Merchant Republic and work on the next stage of getting my house in order.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Oh, and Woden, would you be willing to play my turns from May 5-10? I will be out of town on those days on a remote island with no Internet access.