Looks like my vote may be useless sitting on Merovech, but let me just explain briefly why I'm voting for him, since I couldn't be bothered to elaborate in my previous post. (It was from the phone.)
First of all, he hasn't had any town moments at all that I have noticed. His level of participation is also fairly low, and not showing an upward trend, like with some of the others. The concrete thing that I found scummy was at the start of today when he changed his stance on me. I thought his reasons for suspecting me were fuzzy on day 1, but on day 2 he changed his tune, claiming that I had suddenly started explaining myself. Like I said at the time:
(January 20th, 2014, 02:50)zakalwe Wrote:
(January 20th, 2014, 01:48)Merovech Wrote: zakalwe is less suspicious than he was before bEcuase he started to explain what he was saying.
I don't think there's been any shift in my behavior where I suddenly started explaining myself - I think I've been doing that all along. Sounds like revisionism to me.
Seems to me like he needed a new target since I had suddenly gained a lot of towncred, and instinctively adapted his "read" instead of just admitting that he'd been wrong.
(January 21st, 2014, 03:19)Jowy Wrote: On Novice, he's up there on my list of suspects. But I doubt he'd get many votes, really. He's up there not for what he's done, but for what he hasn't done. A few other people could be included in that group, namely Matt, Ichabod and Sunrise, although they're more in line with their normal play. But I'm pretty sure all of them have been a lurking scum before. I especially expected more from Matt after his great performance last game. But yeah, out of those, Novice is the one who seems the scummiest (or the one I have the most unfair expectations of? )
Jowy, what exactly about Novice's play makes him seem the scummiest to you?
Lewwyn's role, if true, is not pro-town. It's neutral. He might end up killing one of us, or he might protect one of us.
It's not a role that is inherently good for the town. It's a gamble.
This is why I don't think that we should let a suspicious guy with an ability to kill roam free. It might help us, but it might hurt us. That is even if we'd 100% know that he's town and his ability is real. Which we don't! This is a guy who a lot of you have found suspicious, and just to remind you, Ryan's scan never mentioned the doctor part of his role. Lewwyn never explained why he had the safety net of references to a vig role set up in case he got caught by the town. There's more than a low chance that Lewwyn is bullshitting us. Why would we take this risk when we can easily roleblock him and it's not like we have a better target for the roleblock?
(January 21st, 2014, 06:49)Serdoa Wrote: But while we are at it, aren't you yourself stating in that very part of your post that you will vote for whoever has more votes when you wake up again? Yes, you call it "make up my mind", but really, that is only stalling to see what transpires. Not that I fault you for doing so, see above voting to save yourself is perfectly fine for a villager, but the way you try again - as with the Q-train - to spin your acts as good and villagery while others doing the same are scum and evil is kinda making it hard not to suspect you.
A fair touch Serdoa, I was letting indignation get the better of me on that point.
(January 21st, 2014, 14:51)Serdoa Wrote: Obviously I could simply join the vote-leader. But I don't want to vote for Harry right now. He has 8 votes already, that seems a lot for someone that I haven't read scummy when I read the thread. I will reread him specifically, but right now, just from the amount of votes he has I am hestitant to believe him to be scum.
And if someone wants to know whom I feel is scum: novice, Azarius, Gazglum.
I do find it a bit strange that after spending a whole day talking about why the Q votes don't mean anything, you've now landed on 3 of the 4 Q-voters for your scum suspects. Methinks you did protest too much?
I do agree that Old Harry's tone hasn't been too bad today, but if he was a new commie who slipped up badly at the end of Day 1, he would be getting lots of help from the scum thread about what to say today. The case against him, as Lewwyn summarised, is about his Day 1. And he's kept his cool nicely today, but he hasn't done anything to actively make me think him town.
(January 21st, 2014, 15:35)zakalwe Wrote: Looks like my vote may be useless sitting on Merovech, but let me just explain briefly why I'm voting for him, since I couldn't be bothered to elaborate in my previous post. (It was from the phone.)
First of all, he hasn't had any town moments at all that I have noticed. His level of participation is also fairly low, and not showing an upward trend, like with some of the others. The concrete thing that I found scummy was at the start of today when he changed his stance on me. I thought his reasons for suspecting me were fuzzy on day 1, but on day 2 he changed his tune, claiming that I had suddenly started explaining myself. Like I said at the time:
(January 20th, 2014, 02:50)zakalwe Wrote:
(January 20th, 2014, 01:48)Merovech Wrote: zakalwe is less suspicious than he was before bEcuase he started to explain what he was saying.
I don't think there's been any shift in my behavior where I suddenly started explaining myself - I think I've been doing that all along. Sounds like revisionism to me.
Seems to me like he needed a new target since I had suddenly gained a lot of towncred, and instinctively adapted his "read" instead of just admitting that he'd been wrong.
I've ready answered this, with examples. Let me find the post.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
If we were to believe that he's town it'd be ridiculous to block him. But I do agree he could well be a SK, and as such it makes sense to block him. Lewwyn, why do you feel so certain that there is no SK? It sounds a lot like you have a big personal interest in that question.
I'll vote for one of the Qg voters, either Old Harry or Serdoa. I don't think scum would sacrifice Azza without an attempt at saving him, and Qg seems to be that attempt.
Merovech Wrote: Most other thoughts haven't changed much. @zakalwe. Mostly i didnt like the rules posts at the beginnin of the game, but posts like your one about Azza defending a bad vote were good. Well, sunrise actually explains what I meant by giving explanations well. Unless I misread, you're initial posts are full of explanation-less agreements and, to literally quite sunrise "I dare you to think that I'm scum". Screw the last part. On reread, you weren't like that at all and it's weird for sunrise to say that you were. Su rise is back on my radar. The rest holds true, though.
I mean, it not the world's best argument, but surely you can realize that part of the reason that you got village cred is because you started posting better, unless I read you completely differently from everyone else. I would t even say that your village cred is great, just existent.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I do not think that scrubbing Lewwyn is a bad idea. I'll have to think if it's the best option, though, and I suppose that it depends on who gets lynched.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
