RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

An interesting message from sooooo:

So Dreylin, it looks like a contest between you and Ruff to win this
game - I have had no chance for a long time.

I still have some power to influence the outcome. Do you want to offer
me anything for this?

sooooo

Hey sooooo,

I'm not really sure what you mean; you're not planning on holding back at all are you? 9-)

Also not sure what I could offer you....

Dreylin I.

[novice]

What's left in Vienna now?
Will revolting to police state prevent you from switching to Confucianism for another 5 turns?

[Dreylin]

What's left in Vienna now?
Will revolting to police state prevent you from switching to Confucianism for another 5 turns?

At the end of my turn, Vienna had:

3 Fighter
17 Infantry
5 SAM
4 MG
2 Great Generals (one defensive Inf, one Medic Archer)
6 Anti-Tank
1 Artillery

Civis and Religion revolts are on separate timers so you can revolt on consecutive turns (can't do it while in Anarchy).

Oh goody, public taunting....

[Dreylin]

Clarification from sooooo and a proposal:

Well, for example, we could agree a NAP. That would stop me having to defend my west coast or build any more navy.

To me it would seem to your advantage if I can hold up Ruff for as long as possible. It appears that Ruff's only chance to beat you is if he can run over me as soon as possible. So you could help me with this (and hence help yourself) by agreeing a NAP so that I can concentrate my forces against Ruff.

Are these assumptions that I made correct?

sooooo,

Your analysis is correct as far as it goes. But even if my treaties with Ruff didn't preclude what you are suggesting, I could not in good conscience agree to work with you directly against him, even at this stage, given our past and present relations.

Dreylin II.

Especially after the results of my morning conversation with Ruff (to follow)....

[Dreylin]

Looong chat with Ruff this morning over a wide range of topics. Started out wanting to chat about sooooo's proposal and the state of our relative wars, but eventually I slipped in the idea I'd had....

(skip to the end of the post if you want a summary)

me: Hey Ruff

Ruff.Hi: hi there
sounds like you got crushed

me: Y'know, I could certainly live without the public taunting every time he takes a turn
I'm not sure though

Ruff.Hi: I think that is all he has to look forward to
I must say that you have been handling it pretty well
your 'for the record' post really made me laugh

me: I'm debating suggesting he should use the metal to make coffins....
or just keep silent and avoid another witticism in reply
Anyway, after my turn unit losses were: 44 for me and 38 for him

Ruff.Hi: wait and see what happened

me: he has a stack of Artillery (15) in a back-line city

Ruff.Hi: sounds about even ... giving that he is defending

me: yeah.
but he has few healthy units to take advantage of that
I did lose a lot of Tanks

Ruff.Hi: really?

me: (had to run them into Anti-Tanks at 50% odds

Ruff.Hi: I don't have that many to use
oh - ouch
did you have many artillery?

me: had

Ruff.Hi: ahh
well - I'll try my luck at Sparta
I just hope that sooooo doesn't run away
would like 1 huge battle where I can effectively crush his resistance

me: Oh, he's offered me a NAP btw....

Ruff.Hi: Sooooo?

me: yep, so he doesn't have to defend his Western flank and build more military

Ruff.Hi: wants to move his coastal forces to reinforce his mainland
you had better have said NO

me: not yet


Ruff.Hi: I really like that he has to defend 4 places

me: just got the e-mail
when you going to help out with mh then...

Ruff.Hi: well - see what he is offering
what do you want?

me: he's offering to slow you down
so that you won't get a head-start on our battle...

Ruff.Hi: I pretty much think that he is already doing that
do you see us going to war once DeTOG desolves?

me: well you're going to have to stop my Culture victory somehow...

Ruff.Hi: and you will have to stop my space victory somehow too

me: You don't happen to have a spare Great Person around do you?

Ruff.Hi: but I don't see us waring much ... we will be about level in production
and I will not have any coastal cities so you will have to come via Death Valley

me: fair enough

Ruff.Hi: I do ... an Artist
but I am waiting to take Sparta and then bomb it

me: fair enough
I could really do with a Golden age ASAP
my WW hit the roof after the end of last turn

Ruff.Hi: what do you have standing around?

me: and someone else built Cristo....

Ruff.Hi: eek

me: GM & GS

Ruff.Hi: and you need 1 more

me: indeed

Ruff.Hi: let me look at the game when I see it next
see when my next GP is

me: mine is due in 8t

Ruff.Hi: and chance it will NOT be GM /
GGS?

me: 100%

Ruff.Hi: but 8 turns of huge WW will hurt

me: 8% Prophet, 21% Artist, 71% Engineer

Ruff.Hi: you have built jails and that other Nat Wonder?

me: Rushmore, yeah
some Jails, but probably not enough
I have cities that will be -11 Happy next turn

Ruff.Hi: I have jails all over the place (+2 happy plus EP)
I'll ship you my artist

me: yeah, UB

Ruff.Hi: prob will not take Sparta anyway

me: you sure?

Ruff.Hi: yep
what are buddies for if they don't help

me: What is your ETA on Communism?

Ruff.Hi: I can prob do it in 3 or 4 turns
3 turns at 100% tech but I don't have enough $

me: OK
If it had been sooner, I might have suggested I could hold out and use the GSpy

Ruff.Hi: nahh - take the GA
he has been idle for far too long

me: Will it reach me this turn, do you think?

Ruff.Hi: yes
he was hanging around in DV

me: Oh, that's completely awesome!

Ruff.Hi: and I think we have rails between us

me: Muchas Thanks!

Ruff.Hi: np

me: yes, I certainly railed to the border

Ruff.Hi: now ... do youknow the word pontoon?
as in two baseball players sharing a starting position?

me: don't know it in that context

Ruff.Hi: I may be using the wrong word

me: I know it as a floating peir sort-of thing
*pier
Well with a Golden Age, my next GP will probably be in 5-6t

Ruff.Hi: true

me: if it's an Artist, I'll certainly airlift over right away; you want him if he's a GE or GP?

Ruff.Hi: anything around to rush?
do you have iron works?

me: have IW
Eiffel?

Ruff.Hi: well - you would like that

me: (although is only a ~5t build in IW city)
I would like it, but it would seem churlish of me to take your GA and then use my next GP on a project that benefits me against you only

Ruff.Hi: well - if you get a GA, gift it back to me

me: It looks like the GPP rates in 2 cities are close enough that I could emphasise one to get better odds of an Artist

Ruff.Hi: if you get something else then you can play it by ear

me: (might be able to get it up to 40% Artist odds)

Ruff.Hi: I'll start sacrificing the rubber chickens

me: BTW, you're planning on usigthe GSpy against sooooo, right?

Ruff.Hi: settle

me: ah

Ruff.Hi: that is what I did with my last GSpy
actaully - he built scotlandyard

me: Would Scotland Yard not be better?
that's +100% EPs

Ruff.Hi: yes

me: so a settled and a Yard is good combo

Ruff.Hi: capital is now putting out something like 35EPs all by itself
or yard in another high commerce city

me: Taking out mh's bunker worked very well btw

Ruff.Hi: I have 2 spies in Sparta
first 1 will revolt

me: (especially when I have 20+ Fighters)

Ruff.Hi: second will take out bunker if revolt didn't work
I have about 8 bombers in range too

me: nice
does he have Anti-Tanks?

Ruff.Hi: most of my bombers are destroying Soooo capital
1 or 2 at last count
but he is building tanks now

me: true
ATs have an Intercept chance

Ruff.Hi: yeah - he used those at his capital

me: only 20% though

Ruff.Hi: not very effective
he also has some SAM up there now too
so I have lost a few fighters - easy come / easy go

me: yeah
I did all sorts of juggling with my attack order last turn

Ruff.Hi: Sooooo's capital commerce is down from a high of 75 to 44 last turn

me: ouch!

Ruff.Hi: and 11 of that is palace and trade route that I cannot do anything about

me: double ouch

Ruff.Hi: he has 220% beaker multiplier there too

me: no wonder Radio time is receeding into the distance

Ruff.Hi: yes

me: Oh, I think I've worked out how mh is partly funding his empire

Ruff.Hi: and his gold rate is slowing down too

me: he has IW & HE in Vienna

Ruff.Hi: overflow

me: so probably gets insane overflow each turn into gold

Ruff.Hi: I get around 40g per turn from overflow
wish we hadn't upgraded to 3.19 or I would have got more

me: heh

Ruff.Hi: I've actually been thinking about changing some mines at my HE city to windmills

me: Oh, I just hooked up a second Wheat BTW

Ruff.Hi: for the extra commerce

me: I think I forgot to offer it to you
(I don't think you have Wheat yet)

Ruff.Hi: I'll take a look at your cupboard and see what I don't have

me: heh
Oh, you don't have any Aluminium
(very strange distribution)

Ruff.Hi: I saw that
but I do really - look in the far North East ... that is my Al

me: lol
mine is on the Island
or at Prague


Ruff.Hi: it'll just take me a while to get there
lol
hey - if you do not get a GA from your next GPerson - how about you agree to supply me with AL if I don't have it

me: well once I have a second, you can take it for Mining Inc. ... until DeTOG disolves, at least

Ruff.Hi: so you can rush Ef with GE but I get my space multipler

me: Hmmmm, that could work

Ruff.Hi: TBH - I am not looking forward to losing all of those hammers when DeTOG desolves

me: heh
well you should have all of sooooo's supplies by then
plus all his health

Ruff.Hi: yeah - but not as many
well - cannot complain really

me: hey, at least I'm not taking back my seafood now to start running Sushi at max...

Ruff.Hi: true
what civics are you swapping into?

me: Oh, but I'll probably be in Free Market next turn
Police State, obv

Ruff.Hi: Nationalism or Free Speech?

me: not totally sure about FM
Stay in Free Speech

Ruff.Hi: theology?
oh - Sooooo knocked off theology in 1 turn about 15 turns ago

me: I think so

Ruff.Hi: I missed it
caste system?

me: yeah, he & mh switched over in their recent GAs
I'm still using Slavery off & on in my island cities
Maybe I'll leave it at the end of the GA

Ruff.Hi: and with your extra food soon

me: yeah
BTW, I left it on Rocketry last turn
(was either that or Democracy)
but at 0%

Ruff.Hi: I have no real idea what I should be teching
new war toys are miles away

me: yeah.
I ended on Rocketry simply because it allows Attack Subs
and they may be needed against sooooo
(and they already have the tech)

Ruff.Hi: ok

me: mh is showing MilSci for some reason

Ruff.Hi: well - I need it too
blitz promotion

me: yeah, for your Space victory
Oh, true
but Tanks have that anyway

Ruff.Hi: our tanks have blitz but we cannot use it
not really sure how that works

me: really?
odd
I figured it was for Millitary Academies

Ruff.Hi: no idea - that was my impression
could be wrong

me: for his superflous GGs

Ruff.Hi: right - for the tons of GGs he is racking up

me: my Tanks had used 1/2 move to get to attack, so I never got the chance to try
he got another last turn
but I killed one
(his AT)

Ruff.Hi: a AT GG = ouch

me: yeah, except it lost

(pause)

Ruff.Hi: oh - how much of this can I post?
in particular ... the first 10 or so lines

me: oh, about the taunting?
go ahead; I've made similar comments in my thread
(I've started using it as an indicator)
... at least as far as silence = a good turn for me

Some discussion of tech (neither of us is very sure) & tactics (air power is useful, as is Bunker sabotage), and also of end-games once TOG are eliminated (me: Culture, him: Space).

But the meat of the developments is that Ruff happens to have a Great Artist sitting just over our border which he's going to send my way so I can kick off a Golden Age next turn! :2dance:

Yeah, I did guilt-trip him a little over having built Cristo out from under me, and emphasise the worst possible city unhappiness (although the average is going to be around -6), but still he made the offer. This alliance rocks!

[athlete4life10]

Just a quick question. How is it that Ruff and MH (and I would assume you and Soooo) are getting cash from overflow? How does that mechanic work? Do you need to build wealth with the overflow? How come the overflow just doesn't go right into the next build?

Congrats on securing the GA as well!

[Dreylin]

Just a quick question. How is it that Ruff and MH (and I would assume you and Soooo) are getting cash from overflow? How does that mechanic work? Do you need to build wealth with the overflow? How come the overflow just doesn't go right into the next build?

Congrats on securing the GA as well!

I'm not entirely familiar with the details, but I know that there's a limit to the number of hamers you can overflow into the next build - it's either the per-turn production or the value of the produced item - and then any excess are turned into gold.

Anyway, the upshot is that if you use a large production (or multiplier) city to consistently produce small units, you exceed the overflow limit and generate gold from hammers.

I'm sure that another lurker will be along to point us both to a nicely-detailed explanation soon....

[Square Leg]

Not a nicely detailed post...

I believe you can only overflow the amount of hammer of the previous build - eg: the most you can overflow from an axe would be 35... if you had 40 overflow say, that would complete the axe but convert 5 into gold... not sure if it is 1:1 - I know the mechanism has been changed in 3.19

[kalin]

Not a nicely detailed post...

I believe you can only overflow the amount of hammer of the previous build - eg: the most you can overflow from an axe would be 35... if you had 40 overflow say, that would complete the axe but convert 5 into gold... not sure if it is 1:1 - I know the mechanism has been changed in 3.19

I heard that as of last patch this doesn't work anymore, that is the hammers don't get converted into gold but lost.

Kalin

[Dreylin]

I heard that as of last patch this doesn't work anymore, that is the hammers don't get converted into gold but lost.

Kalin

As I said, I don't claim to know all the details, but I think you're referring to this update for 3.19:

- Build-specific production modifiers are no longer counted for overflow gold calculations

which means that, for example, the HE +100% on Military is backed off before converting the hammers into gold.