WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Meiz]

Jabbz still not voting at all

A policy lynch of Jabbz is very tempting. I think we get less information, and we're slightly less likely to hit scum, but this is getting ridiculous.

I would say his play today suggests he doesn't like the idea of Com & Pind lynches, despite being on fence regarding Commodore's role, as indicated in these two posts:

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753533
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753552

He does not provide any reads of his own regarding Commodore, just says that the case could check out. I think there's potential scum buddy connection in the way he's commented Commodore today.

I don't trust him stating several times how my & Rowain's tunneling is hindering town from scumhunting or making their own reads. Like I already said to him earlier, none of that should affect his (or others) ability to make their own individual reads. Feels very odd mindset from a town perspective. But he hasn't been able to really provide better alternatives either, which is what he should be focusing on as town.

I'm also suspicious of him misunderstanding Rowain's post, because he doesn't seeems to actually consider what Rowain has just said above. Rowain says he would like to lynch Commodore, and if Commodore is town, he would be able to get a read from Pindicator that doesn't involve Pind being scum buddy to Commodore. And therefore he would be able to judge Pind's role just based on how he's played the game. I feel like Jabbz is using the "Rowain is tunneling" - more as an excuse. I posted my take on this earlier, but linking it for reference,  https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753457)

Still, while I find his play scummy, I would prefer finding out Commodore's alignment first as I think it gives a better read on Jabbz's D2 play as well.

[Rowain]

Jabbz play on day 2 was so far bad.

My last post towards him 17 hours ago

In a very peacefulk and harmonious way how about you Jabbz state clearly you don't want to lynch commodore. Make it clear why you think him to be town and make a case on who you think scum.

BTW currently Commodore has 6 votes none of which is mine.

Still waiting for his response.But his day1 was already problematic

On the subject of waiting:
Still waiting on Kaisers WoT part 2

[Commodore]

Just getting caught up but really quick wanted to say thank you Sunrise for sharing that; very glad your daughter's beloved sheep is doing better.

[Lewwyn]

Once again I find myself very interested to see if Commodore & Pindicator are red and Lewwyn is the third  

I don’t know whether comm is scum or not. I’m reading him neutral right now. But meis you really have been stuck on him and pin basically all day. I mean if you wanted to optimize your time you should have scumhunted around all day and then came back to comm at the end. But both you and Gaspar have just sat on him basically wasting time that could have been spent pushing people and getting new reads. I find it to be pretty suspect.

I mean, this is lazy analysis.  Meiz might be wrong or even might be scum but you strain your own argument when you suggest that he's tunneled on two people all day even though his vote is only one of them.  And in fact, the one his vote is not on is the one who has spent his day increasingly agitated at him.

Honestly, there's a bunch of ways to play this game well.  Some people always bounce, some people always lock on.  

I mean I just am starting to really suspect Weeb Fox, you're a lot shadier than I give you credit for.  You keep neutral on Commodore and Pindicator, even on day 1 where you seemed like you'd consider you never really let go of Thrawn.  And while its good we got Thrawn, killing him certainly doesn't give any town cred in my eyes because the likelihood is that the scum didn't know who he was.  Yeah you held the hammer but that's just Weeb Fox doing Weeb Fox things.

Like and you say you've been scumhunting today but mostly you're just throwing stuff out there.  If you got lynched today and flipped red, I'd suspect Comm and Pind even more.  If you got lynched today and flipped blue... I don't know that you've given us anything?  A hotshot read on Adrien and WK?  Arguing with Meiz?  I just don't see a lot of opinions, I see a lot of hot shotting, which to me is day 1 stuff.  We're deep enough in that you should have more.

Pretty sure Gaspar is scum and WK is a scum buddy.

[Lewwyn]

I'm seriously reconsidering my current town lean on you if you are going to jump around so much late on Day 2.

Sounds like a threat. Stop jumping around or you’re scum? Good one. You sound nervous.

[Commodore]

Eeee wreeee reeer kickatackatata?
<Wait, so what in the abyss?>

Current reads:
Scum lean:

4) Commodore - Lovable as all get out, but I still don't like the Day 1 Meiz vote; I still don't like the inability to read Omar; he thinks all my suspects are town; I'm not seeing reads commiserate with, say, WW46; and though it's definitely not a big scum tell to me I think the move onto Thrawn Day 1 was questionable.

3) Pindicator - Apparently couldn't read Commodore and still hasn't answered that to my satisfaction unless I've missed it - Novice in 583 presses and I only see a deflection; had a lot of "go ahead and lynch me" chatter at the end of Day 1 which despite being on his bucket list still strikes me as scummy;  no reads early.

2) Jabbz - Low activity, no reads, and half of the dude's posts are "oh, sorry, that was my mistake." It's too late for me to go find quotes but I can do that tomorrow, but there's just so much lazy scuminess with misunderstanding rules, votes, cases, etc.

1) Gaspar - Who else?! I acknowledge a lot of Gaspar-as-scum conflicts with Commodore+Pindicator as scum. That said, he just kind of makes stuff up a lot. I've covered his Meiz attack ad nauseum so I won't re-hash, but the goalposts kept moving there and I still think, despite him making a good-faith effort to answer me, that the original attack was unwarranted. I asked him about saying the then-inactive Thrawn "feels like he's trying too hard" and Gaspar stated he meant trying too hard not to be himself from a past game, and later said Thrawn had "retreated to his shell" when Thrawn had become very active but was just being scummy. I know there are interpretations of all of this in his favor, but one else in the game makes me have to keep ignoring the plane meaning of their words to see them as town. Plus, he fought super hard to save Thrawn via pushing Pindicator/Commodore votes, including lobbing up a vote which novice could have spiked to successfully save him absent my vote and the Q self-vote; his critic would up dead; and it looks like he's setting up a mislynch a bit on me - I think I'm pretty towny save for the IRL activity gap, and Gaspar has consistently been lowest on me ever since I began pressuring him. I was worried about being hit at night but while Gazglum may have been easier to mislynch than me he was much more likely to be night-killable.

"reer reeeEEEEE e tickakata tacka"
<"I find Gaspar incredibly scummy and he's my #1 lynch, so I'll join him here on the target he's sat on for the last hundred hours.">

[novice]

Current reads:

Town:

*Meiz - super active, I don't find any of the reasoning problematic, I like the targets

*Rowain - I think posts 529 and 595 are very good. I know scum can talk theory with less risk, but in this case I think the traitor reveal + night 1 non-role-reveal have made town talk too little about theory and voting patterns and not too much.

Keeping an eye on (not necessarily 5th, 6th, and 7th scummiest but specific scum flags):

*Lewwyn - as stated in my post immediately proceeding this. Nabbing Thrawn was great, big credit there. But everything else has been weak by his standards, and given the uncertainty about scum role knowledge, of all the potential scum I think scum Lewwyn would have the best combo of balls and desire to drive the train.

*Adrien - Post 706 is bad to me, just because I think you're giving passes to several very scummy players.

*Kaiser - 1) I note above the flip-flop on Thrawn is defensible but suspicious to me; 2) Rowain notes in 600 that the double-vote for Thrawn is also potentially weird; 3) I agree with my frenemy Gaspar that there's a Roland vibe. I have complete faith that a scum player can be willing to put in the effort to make massive summary posts and/or blocks of quotes, and so I want to mildly push-back on anyone saying "that effort has to mean you're town" (though respect for the effort!)

Scum lean:

4) Commodore - Lovable as all get out, but I still don't like the Day 1 Meiz vote; I still don't like the inability to read Omar; he thinks all my suspects are town; I'm not seeing reads commiserate with, say, WW46; and though it's definitely not a big scum tell to me I think the move onto Thrawn Day 1 was questionable.

3) Pindicator - Apparently couldn't read Commodore and still hasn't answered that to my satisfaction unless I've missed it - Novice in 583 presses and I only see a deflection; had a lot of "go ahead and lynch me" chatter at the end of Day 1 which despite being on his bucket list still strikes me as scummy;  no reads early.

2) Jabbz - Low activity, no reads, and half of the dude's posts are "oh, sorry, that was my mistake." It's too late for me to go find quotes but I can do that tomorrow, but there's just so much lazy scuminess with misunderstanding rules, votes, cases, etc.

1) Gaspar - Who else?! I acknowledge a lot of Gaspar-as-scum conflicts with Commodore+Pindicator as scum. That said, he just kind of makes stuff up a lot. I've covered his Meiz attack ad nauseum so I won't re-hash, but the goalposts kept moving there and I still think, despite him making a good-faith effort to answer me, that the original attack was unwarranted. I asked him about saying the then-inactive Thrawn "feels like he's trying too hard" and Gaspar stated he meant trying too hard not to be himself from a past game, and later said Thrawn had "retreated to his shell" when Thrawn had become very active but was just being scummy. I know there are interpretations of all of this in his favor, but one else in the game makes me have to keep ignoring the plane meaning of their words to see them as town. Plus, he fought super hard to save Thrawn via pushing Pindicator/Commodore votes, including lobbing up a vote which novice could have spiked to successfully save him absent my vote and the Q self-vote; his critic would up dead; and it looks like he's setting up a mislynch a bit on me - I think I'm pretty towny save for the IRL activity gap, and Gaspar has consistently been lowest on me ever since I began pressuring him. I was worried about being hit at night but while Gazglum may have been easier to mislynch than me he was much more likely to be night-killable.

Any opinions on Cyneheard and me?

[novice]

Pretty sure Gaspar is scum and WK is a scum buddy.

In that case what is your opinion on Commodore?

[pindicator]

There’s no good way of saying this without tilting Pindicator, but to be honest I agree with WK’s take on Pindicator’s day two.

Eh, I at least have the impression you are asking questions to get new data and adjust your opinions after ... unlike some people who are just asking questions to ask questions and clearly have no intention of changing their minds.

And you're right about me being near tilt. Meiz is infuriating with his holier-than-though tone and inability to take any opinion that differs from his first read of someone. It feels like there is literally nothing that will change his mind when it is set. I really want him to be scum because that would make me feel better about the game than that he's just stuck in his ways and blind to it.

3) Pindicator - Apparently couldn't read Commodore and still hasn't answered that to my satisfaction unless I've missed it - Novice in 583 presses and I only see a deflection; had a lot of "go ahead and lynch me" chatter at the end of Day 1 which despite being on his bucket list still strikes me as scummy;  no reads early.

Sunrise, I'm not sure where I posted it, or if I started to write it and deleted it in a post, but what was happening day 1 was that as soon as my eyes hit the chirp-cheep line they instinctively skim down lines looking for English text. And sometimes I would skim down too far and miss stuff. It was all lazy reading/ going too fast on my part which was why I did the reread of Commodore first.

I've since made myself slow down when I see his posts and make sure I'm not missing any English.

I will add that I have not liked Commodore's day 2. I'm not as sure he is town as Meiz is trying to imply I am but I am sure his day 1 was not what the attack on him said it was. And I do not like the reasons for pushing him and ignoring others for reasons I've gotten into already.

Oh, and I could definitely Gaspar again.

[Lewwyn]

Pretty sure Gaspar is scum and WK is a scum buddy.

In that case what is your opinion on Commodore?

Not scum I guess