[SPOILERS - PBEM17] novice and spaceman - Suryavarman of India

[novice]

So are we delaying Economics?



I reckon it's more than 12gpt, since there's the maintenance that gets added to all the cities' maintenance. Plus there's the opportunity cost of not building something like a grocer, bank or university.

But your turns are for building settlers, not mine.

Economics first, forgot about that.

Our cities are almost maxed out on the #of cities maintenance already.

I'll just make sure to grab a save soon, then.

[novice]

Worthy of its own post:

Novice & Spaceman,

I would be willing to join in a war against Rego. I have spoken to Darrell and Shoot and I can speak for the three of us when I say we are onboard with the idea.

I am not willing to trade you East Indiamen. I would be willing to loan them if you are interested. However, attached to such a deal would have to be a guarantee that they will not be used against myself, Shoot or Darrell.

As part of this new alliance we will trade world maps. If you accept my terms, I will offer this trade to you on my next turn. You need a map of Rego's territory if you want to carry out an invasion, and I'm very curious to see what you have been up to for the last 99 turns.

No open borders will result as a part of this alliance, at least not until you possess corporation.

Regards,
Dave

[spacemanmf]

Hmm, this seems the way the world is going... I don't like it much.

Should remind him that we're in Mercantilism so Open Borders are not the issue they once were. Plus, how do we get loaned EIs without Open Borders.

Also, the Corporation line is from darrell I reckon. At Corporation, we replace two trade routes in coastal cities with one trade route in all cities, right? (So Capital benefits but all others lose out.) But if we're first to Corporation, we'll still get more trade routes than others, so it still wouldn't be in their interests.

[spacemanmf]

I did think of one idea.

Tip off rego.

Cancel NAPs with Dave, Shoot & rego all at the same time, for when the proposed dogpile is planned.

Story for Dave/Shoot/darrell - we are disguising our attack on rego.

Actual story - this is the only way to cancel the NAP with Shoot without suspicion. Dave is included for extra subterfuge. Darrell isn't because we want some insurance.

Hold back on the attack of rego, i.e. don't commit forces, but scout to see what is being sent.

In a surprise twist, carry out our attack on Shoot.

[novice]

I did think of one idea.

Tip off rego.

Cancel NAPs with Dave, Shoot & rego all at the same time, for when the proposed dogpile is planned.

Story for Dave/Shoot/darrell - we are disguising our attack on rego.

Actual story - this is the only way to cancel the NAP with Shoot without suspicion. Dave is included for extra subterfuge. Darrell isn't because we want some insurance.

Hold back on the attack of rego, i.e. don't commit forces, but scout to see what is being sent.

In a surprise twist, carry out our attack on Shoot.

This is how our opponents would think. But if we're playing that game, we might as well go ahead with a 4v1, no?

I'm not sure I like either option.

[novice]

All I wanted was to get someone to build ships for us...

Maybe we should just pick up Compass->Optics->Astro ourselves. We could use Harbours, Whales and Observatories. And Astro gives an additional discount on Scientific Method.

[spacemanmf]

This is how our opponents would think. But if we're playing that game, we might as well go ahead with a 4v1, no?

I'm not sure I like either option.

Hang on, how would our opponents think?

The point is I would rather attack Shoot than rego, but we (you) seem to have started the ball rolling on an attack on rego, so this was a way of attacking Shoot despite the dogpile plans.

I don't see what we gain from taking out rego other than bringing down someone who might be perceived as the likeliest to win this game based on a few short-term demographics (hmm, seen that before somewhere). His land is a bit too far away and would make us (even more) stretched out.

We could carry out a phoney war, I suppose. Tip rego off and pretend to join the attack but do nothing in reality, trying to help our economy relatively vs others.

I don't think we should rely on anyone else for boats (especially since we have to give them back and can't use them against Shoot) so the seafaring tech route sounds good. Compass and Optics should be cheap enough for now anyway.

[novice]

This is how our opponents would think.

I didn't mean this as an insult, although I see how it can be read as one.

We've been straightforward with the other players so far, so I'd rather not start inventing reasons for cancelling NAPs, and fake-joining alliances, that's all.

How about saying something like this to Dave:

Hi Dave,

After some reflection and discussing with Spaceman, we're not keen on a 4v1 alliance. It brings back bad memories, and besides, we're the ones furthest away from Rego so we would probably gain the least.

The idea behind our proposal was rather to both gain a short term military and economic benefit to leverage as we both see fit. You could delay researching Rifling, and we could delay researching Astronomy.

We're still interested in a unit trade without further commitments. For us to be able to trade units we would need open borders, though, to gift units back and forth. However with us in Mercantilism we wouldn't get any economic benefit from open borders.

If we're lucky the other three go ahead with an attack on Rego regardless, and/or we can try to catch one of them unprepared. We can just cancel all our NAPs when we're ready for our next military buildup. To get the most of our current infrastructure push we might want to do Compass->Optics->Astronomy immediately after Economics. Then push military and research GP, Rifling, and Chemistry.

[spacemanmf]

I was after clarification rather than checking whether there was an insult involved. They've been devious before so no reason why they couldn't be again.

But yeah, you're right. We are the Straight Talkers - must not forget that!

I like your response. And your plan.

I think darrell will want to take down rego whether it's 3 vs 1 or 4 vs 1. The question is then whether we warn rego. But we can worry about that down the line.

[novice]

I like your response. And your plan.

Okay, message sent.