[SPOILER]PB58 - Mr. Cairo residing over the remains of Serdoas Library of Knowledge

[civac2]

Both maintenance parts scale with the size of the city so the cost difference between close and far cities will increase when they grow. However, I don't think one should worry about distance maintenance when settling distant cities. I'd care more about the problems with effiency and security due to the long distances.

[Serdoa]

While we are having this discussion about maintenance. Don't forget the distance maintenance is not about the distance from the city to the capitol, but rather from the city to the nearest seat of goverment. These are of course cities with the palace national wonder aka your capitol, but also those cities with Versailles or Forbidden Palace. This is why moving your palace to a more central location will decrease maintenance cost.

I wanted to actually mention that in my last post already, thanks for bringing it up. Looking at my empire this is indeed the first time I can remember that I feel like there would be a good reason to move my palace. There are just a few tiles east of my starting area before an ocean starts that spans the whole coast from north to south. There are some islands but I doubt I settle much over there. So moving the capital my be sensible. I will have to calculate how much it would save me in comparison to how many hammers I have to invest as it costs 160 to move it, so the reduction has to be considerable to be worth that imo.

Also, please forget all I stated about rings. I found myself posts on civfanatics that talked about that and maybe they are right and the torodial-setting does something funky, but the cities have not incurred as high a cost as predicted because they are indeed counted as 10 and 12 distance - so the actual distance if one counts diagonals as 1.5 tiles - from the capital.

Which just for the record means that I have built Stonehenge and am still first to 7 cities. And Jowy is the only one with 6, Tarkeel has 5 as does Ruff and AT and SD still have 4. Pop numbers I can't provide with certainty, I gave up last turn to track them, it just is too much stuff happening and not enough time between turns. But it was between 14 to 11 pop with me at 12.

[Serdoa]

Both maintenance parts scale with the size of the city so the cost difference between close and far cities will increase when they grow. However, I don't think one should worry about distance maintenance when settling distant cities. I'd care more about the problems with effiency and security due to the long distances.

Yeah... on that note, no one is building units. At least not as long as I tracked the numbers accurately. That might change though. As far as I can tell SD has finished Archery research this turn - which I'm sure he does not want for defense but as pre-requisite for HBR. My farthest cities are still like 15 tiles from his through rocky terrain. But I think Tarkeel should take note of it.

But nonetheless I did have some warrior builds queued when I hooked my copper so I do have several spears pre-build, some just a turn or two away from completion, some just 5 hammers in so they are 1-pop whipable. I don't believe anyone has Chariots yet though as the horses sit in spots that are not easily settled. I will have finish some of these spears in a few turns though because they would go to waste if I didn't. I just want to grow some cities first because I am paying unit costs already (I do have the biggest military as far as I can tell, consisting of actual units, not just military techs...). 

As an aside: I'm not sure I can settle city 8 next turn, I just have 5gpt left on 0%...

[Charriu]

Also, please forget all I stated about rings. I found myself posts on civfanatics that talked about that and maybe they are right and the torodial-setting does something funky, but the cities have not incurred as high a cost as predicted because they are indeed counted as 10 and 12 distance - so the actual distance if one counts diagonals as 1.5 tiles - from the capital.

Which just for the record means that I have built Stonehenge and am still first to 7 cities. And Jowy is the only one with 6, Tarkeel has 5 as does Ruff and AT and SD still have 4. Pop numbers I can't provide with certainty, I gave up last turn to track them, it just is too much stuff happening and not enough time between turns. But it was between 14 to 11 pop with me at 12.

No, they are correct. There's just this small change in CtH that calculates maintenance on torodial maps just like on cylindical.

[Serdoa]

Thanks for the clarification Charriu. The formulas I found made no mention of toroidal and cylindrical so I just assumed they were for cylindrical (and in CtHs case torodial as well) anyhow.

[civac2]

The formula should contain a value called MaxPlotDistance or something like this which is the maximum of all distances between tiles of the map. This value is smaller on toroidal maps which leads to higher costs, only in BTS though as Charriu said. In CTH, MaxPlotDistance for toroidal maps is calculated as if they were cylindrical.

[Serdoa]

I actually think I never found the correct formulas, just some threads from 2015 and 2016 which were mostly correct but missed details. For example I had to include an additional 0.85 multiplier on the no. of cities maintenance to get the correct number but a 0.8 multiplier on the distance maintenance. I know this has to do with map size and difficulty setting but it does not comply with the values I found in yet another resource and also it is for some reason different between the two formulas (I assume one might only check difficulty and not map size as well).

Anyway, I got it working and the numbers match those in game and my predictions so that is good enough for me for now. However if someone has the correct formulas (with all modifiers like difficulty and map size) at hand I'd very much like to get my hands on them

As for the game itself: I planted city 8 two turns ago. Yes, I've thought about if I can settle it a mere 11 hours ago but that was enough to get 2.5 turns played   I'm now up from 5gpt @ 0% to 12gpt @ 0%. So things are looking up. Therefore city 9 and 10 will be planted in a few turns. 

I've also got some good news:




Those cities do not necessarily need a spread but if they do get one it should probably help the further spread of the religion. Or if not it will at least have me not manually spread it to two cities, which is fine on its own I guess. Also got a Forest - nice. That is the second forest growth I had now in this game.

Apart from that I've very extensively planned the next turns today (between conferences). I'm going to abuse FIN-coast to get some key-tech done asap now while planting my next cities. Goal: 20 cities by T100!

On that note: Can somebody tell me if a city on an island will provide 2c trade routes? I think it does but I would like to be certain.

------------

Last note: No one is opening borders with me, even though I offered. Boo! Or do they get the diplo-screen only next turn?

[Charriu]

Yes islands get +100% trade yield for every trade routes to and from them

[Serdoa]

Yes islands get +100% trade yield for every trade routes to and from them

And every one of my cities on the mainland can have a trade route to the same island-city, yes?

[pindicator]

What are the maintenance formulas that you use Serdoa? I tried digging around for them once but never found anything that lined up with what i saw in game.