4 f tile + 2 flood plains = size 5 on turn 13. 4 1f/2h tiles + God King....= 2 Gobbos, 1 war and a Settler t19, 3 workers t29 (and with Nationhood....the possibility of a 1t warrior or 8 in the event of nasties), ideally with the 1t warriors coming after the workers.
Expansive + teammates to tech for you = win.
Quote:Be handy. If you can send me the sandbox, I might try a couple variations myself.
Sent to you and Ellimist via email.
Um......
Ellimist, you might want to remind me what it was we talked about in chat this evening.
Ellimist, you might want to remind me what it was we talked about in chat this evening.
Several topics... I suppose it's best just to clean up the chat log a bit and post it here:
Ellimist: Hey Thoth: Hi
I like the Orc start. t19 settler. Ellimist: Jonas rocks, definitely worth a first pick
Ravus warned me that it would "ruin me for other civs" Thoth: hehe. Any exp can do it with a 4 food tile + 2 flood plains to grow on.....plus 4 1f/2h tiles to work at size 5 with GK/Exp. Ellimist: yeah Thoth: Exp is under-rated for team games. Ellimist: it's awesome without teams too Thoth: Though given our Calabim high food start....they can do some serious REXing early as well Ellimist: yeah with RoB and everything Thoth: LOL
yeah. That gets the snowball rolling Ellimist: I think we're going to do very well
the only problem is I think the other teams can also do very well Thoth: but 5 3f/1c tiles + Dry Corn.
omfg this city has food....
no hammers, but foood Ellimist: hehe Thoth: Yeah, should be a good game Thoth: Yeah. I couldn't believe the resource distribution between the civs when I first looked at pitboss 6. :facepalm:
BTW: Expansive Health can be exported so long as we don't have 3x of a Health resource. Ellimist: yeah
in FFH 20, I'm Jonas
and I have several grains farmed
but not roaded
i just don't need the health yet Thoth: hah. Ellimist: EXP is awesome in FFH Thoth: No brewery? Ellimist: lol no Thoth: hehehe Ellimist: why would I build a brewery when I can build 4 settlers for the same price?
less, even Thoth: Does that account for the initial investment in Warrens? (or can you do that with base hammers....I don't recall the cost of the Brewery atm) Ellimist: no, it doesn't, but at this point warrens are a sunk cost Thoth: true
once built Ellimist: yep Thoth: query: Does God King affect Governor's Mansion hammers? Ellimist: I'm not sure Thoth: If it does....the Calabim will out Rex the Orcs once we get Luxs to the Vamps and a GM in place Ellimist: why's that?
wouldn't there still be a comparative advantage in having the orcs provide most settlers? Thoth: Huge food city + high happy cap + God King + Governor's Mannor = Huge Food/Hammer production.
It isn't either or for settler production Ellimist: yes, and we use that huge production for a Moroi rush
to take advantage of tolerant later Thoth: And post Education/Reliquaries....Elohim can provide high exp units
Moroi....nice. Even nicer if we can get them to Mob 1 (and or Haste) Ellimist: yeah
well Clan start with Body
if we have the Elohim duplicate an allied palace, that's 3 free spells for adepts Thoth: Team Redit has some nasty Chariot rush opportunities....if they don't bum rush with warcried warriors or Horsemen Ellimist: don't chariots take some time to get to, though?
Moroi could hit first Ellimist: I really wish we knew what the relative positions of those three screenshots were
minimap would have been nice Thoth: Moroi can be on the board first, but they are slow without buffs Ellimist: yeah
well KoTE is enough for haste and shamans don't require mage guilds
doesn't burning blood also give +1 move? Thoth: Chariots require Construction and Horses in EITB. And Team Double Agg leaders gets half priced Siege WSs, half priced Stumpie upgrades and possibly Trebuchets Thoth: BB gives +1 move, but BB is usually a "just before the attack goes in" spell. Otherwise you lose at least 20% of your troops as barbs per turn..... Ellimist: oh it's 20% per turn? i thought it was lower...
like 5-10 Thoth: 10% /turn of wearing off, 20%/turn of unit turning barb Ellimist: ah
so it's gotta be mobility and/or haste Thoth: very nice for a first strike, where the first attackers are going to die anyway. Ellimist: we could also priest rush with the Clan
warrens plus spiritual priests plus monks Thoth: but in order to get them into place, yeah...HBR and KotE are our friends.
Priests.....of Leaves? Ellimist: sure
priests of whatever
more expensive, i know, but we'd have warrens Thoth: I'm thinking we're probably not going to get Killmorph unless we seriously warp our early game Ellimist: we don't need to found the religion to utilize it
we will want it for Clan SoKs and tolerated Clan SoKs
and/or Thoth: true....but it's AW and there is "we won't fight with our Brothers in Faith" unhappies to deal with. Ellimist: doesn't that happen even to the founder? Thoth: I'm not entirely sold on the idea of SoKs for infra vs somthing else with boots to kick arse idea
No....it happens when you are at war with the founder Ellimist: hmm
well we don't have to stay in SoK
er
in RoK
jonas is spiritual
and he doesn't need RoK in every city to use it Thoth: We get the unhappies in any city with RoK Ellimist: yeah
but if we only put it in a few Clan cities
that's manageable
I still think it's worth using though, simply because of the power of warrens SoKs Thoth: It's possible, if we have the means of covering the unhappies (ICS,Spi temples, ICS, more ICS ect)
Lots of small cities = easy to keep happy Ellimist: well that's the standard Clan gameplan Thoth: Hive you mean. Ellimist: lots and lots of cities
yeah Thoth: hehe Ellimist: SoKs are awesome
it's like
build a wonder in multiple cities before you even have the tech for it Ellimist: i mean, come on, that's crazy Thoth: Yeah, nice if you can pull it off....but if you need every hammer you can get just to stay alive like I did in III.....Moar shiney war toys pls. Ellimist: yeah
the other nice thing about SoKs...
if necessary, they can fight Thoth: true....
handy they are when you are planning on a specific wonder ASAP Ellimist: yeah Thoth: They can do both duties. Ellimist: only thing is, doublers don't help with them. they add 30 hammers, period
marble/copper/whatever doesn't matter Thoth: They're a method of transferring hammers assuming no multipliers on unit builds Ellimist: yeah Thoth: with Nationhood/Mil state.... Ellimist: or Heroic epic or command post Thoth: hehe Ellimist: would AV be worth gunning for instead?
or even order Thoth: Leaves first
then AV
then Druids
plus Empy Ellimist: you don't think AV will require a beeline? Thoth: we only need it in a couple of cities Ellimist: k Thoth: shrine sucks Ellimist: yeah
is the noctis any good now?
i know it got nerfed Thoth: a few orc cities for Spi upgrade shenanegans....plus some Ritualists. But we don't need the heros.
Noctis is Shadow mana + gold per city only in the mod. Ellimist: what do you mean spi upgrade shenanigans? Thoth: ok, but not worth founding unless it's easy. Ellimist: if you upgrade in a SPI teammate's city, does your city become SPI? Thoth: AV disciples--> Mages
With Potency Ellimist: yeah Thoth: Arcane Lite if we can manage the xp and the Nodes to make it worthwhile Ellimist: well the Elohim palace will make that easy Thoth: OH....and the Orcs get Catacombus Liberwasssissname for free. Ellimist: yeah
plus great library
oh, wait, i see what you meant
umm yeah, they don't require mage guilds to build shamans, correct
but they can also export that to their teammates, in a way Thoth: correct. and Mage guilds are only needed to build Adepts Ellimist: because they don't require a mage guild to build the catacombs either. So it's 80 hammers cheaper than it would be Ellimist: they also don't require 3 libraries to build the great library Thoth: ?? I thought they couldn't build either wonder due to lack of pre req buildings? Ellimist: nope
they can build them
but there are no prereqs Thoth: holy shit
and we have marble Ellimist: and in 18, we confirmed that great library and catacombs benefit the whole team Thoth: shit Ellimist: yep
<3 Clan
oh, or the Elohim can probably build either wonder in a tolerated clan city without prereqs
(haven't confirmed that)
Elohim should do the great library if so Thoth: hmmm....glib in the Philo civ for no upfront cost
nice.
not sure about CL Ellimist: yeah
we don't technically need CL as much due to two civs being able to build shamans
well one and a half Thoth: It's worth a GE if we happen to have one (not likely) but I hate paying that many freaking hammers for it
even without the Mage Guild cost Ellimist: yeah
well if we have the opportunity
GL is definitely worthwhile Ellimist: heck, with marble and without the required libraries
GLib is cheaper than a warrens Thoth: true....but for the most part, I'd rather have the Warrens. lol Thoth: Initial sandbox sent by email...
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
darrelljs Wrote:Pretty sure GM hammers don't benefit from God King. Of course by then I've always been in aristofarms but I guess EitB changes things .
Darrell
I actually ran a test game long enough to check on this. Yes, GM hammers get the GK multiplier.
But by the time we get to that point, we're also at the point where we'll want the Aristo commerce rather than the GK hammers.
Thoth Wrote:ps: I vote that we don't make Mardoc Minister of Worker Actions. :neenernee
Ah, c'mon. All you need is a stencil behind your monitor, and you can etch something fun into your wall!
Actually, I'm a tad bit afraid that everything will break loose at once - this and Diplo and the new PBEM and....Oooh, speaking of! Can I talk either of you into dedlurking me in that v9 game? Now that we're approaching consensus and all .
Mardoc Wrote:Ah, c'mon. All you need is a stencil behind your monitor, and you can etch something fun into your wall!
Oh, yeah. Sure that'll work.
BTW: My landlady wants to know who "Mardoc" is and why I kept shouting "MARDOC!!!??!!!! WTF!!!??? for months on end.
Quote:Actually, I'm a tad bit afraid that everything will break loose at once - this and Diplo and the new PBEM and....Oooh, speaking of! Can I talk either of you into dedlurking me in that v9 game? Now that we're approaching consensus and all .
