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Just a quick note about PB's theory against Rowain.
When I made a big post about Selrahc, it was followed by a lot of criticism, that it was circumstancial, based on subjective views, didn't make sense, etc.
That's why I was stunned to see so many people voting against Rowain, agreeing with PB like his theory was perfect, with no holes.
I'm not discussing the merits of the theory or if Rowain or PB are wolves. I'm complaining that we got a surge of votes without any discussion. I'm complaining about the way the village played (i.e. presuming everybody as innocent).
Reading PB's theory I found some weak arguments and links and I tried to point them (being promptly ignored by everyone). If I was able to see them, I don't think anyone else would have difficulties to do so. That's why the quick voting was bad, IMO.
I think that next day will probably be a Rowain vs. PB battle and that makes me unconfortable. We need more discussion and more thinking before the bandwagons start. Reading the thread again, with our new perspectives is advisable, of course.
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I dunno know if it will be Rowain vs. PB. These things never turn out like you think. You can never assume what will happen on the following day. During WW2 we kept saying, "Okay next day lets lynch Scooter, and it kept not happening!  Trust me there will be twists. Besides I believe PB is a WW.
On a side note. I didn't tear apart your Selrahc argument. I actually thought it wasn't that bad. And I don't think that the village played as if everyone was innocent. Some were more convinced of other guilt than it seemed. One other thing, who tore up the Selrahc argument? Think about that.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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@ Lewwyn - I find it suspicious you are posting. Shouldn't you be sleeping?
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Bruindane Wrote:@ Lewwyn - I find it suspicious you are posting. Shouldn't you be sleeping?
YEP!
Its 2:30 AM here, but the wife is out of town to take an exam and its Saturday tomorrow. I'm indulging in the night 
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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I like to repeat myself, but it will definitely be an interesting day 3
This game is so much different than WW2 was. Don't think I'll be getting to any WW games which include PM's in the future.
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Lewwyn Wrote:On a side note. I didn't tear apart your Selrahc argument. I actually thought it wasn't that bad. And I don't think that the village played as if everyone was innocent. Some were more convinced of other guilt than it seemed. One other thing, who tore up the Selrahc argument? Think about that.
I was just trying to say that, even if everyone here is a villager and they all switched to Rowain for a legitimate reason, it still would have been bad played, since there was no discussion.
Another thing that bothers me is the "I was suspecting Rowain too" argument that popped after PB posted. Hell, if you find Rowain suspicious, please, post it. Maybe you want to wait to see someone further incriminate himself, but you hae to say something sometime.
And even if you decided to keep quiet for the moment, when someone else votes for your suspect, don't come saying "yeah, I suspected him too" without any back-up.
Regarding the PB vs. Rowain dispute, apart from PB's post and Mardoc's 5 wolves theory, I don't remember seeing other elaborate posts justifying the votes against the two. And it was a lot of votes...
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Well you were dead at this point last game Meiz :neenernee
Seriously though, WW1 was very different from WW2 and both of those had PM communication. Just because something was hinky in WW doesn't mean it was PMings fault. I really feel that WW2 suffered from organizational, management and out-of-line players than from PMs. PMs had so little to do with what was troubling WW2. Honestly, in this game you still have WW PMs and Mason PMs, can you say thats negatively impacted this game?
Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying this game and I'm enjoying this format. That said I also enjoyed WW2 for the most part. I just don't think its fair to say that this format is clearly superior to the previous format. ALot of it has to do with who's running it.
Again, sry F&I I think you were just overmatched and had no idea what you were truly getting into.
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Ichabod Wrote:I was just trying to say that, even if everyone here is a villager and they all switched to Rowain for a legitimate reason, it still would have been bad played, since there was no discussion.
Another thing that bothers me is the "I was suspecting Rowain too" argument that popped after PB posted. Hell, if you find Rowain suspicious, please, post it. Maybe you want to wait to see someone further incriminate himself, but you hae to say something sometime.
Well, I've been clear about everything. I also raised concerns, and defended Rowain. So its not everyone.
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Lewwyn Wrote:Who else has reserved their vote in this game? Pocketbeetle for one, Roland for two. Pocketbeetle I believe is a WW.
Roland I am just now thinking about. plausible switch to Selrahc to create credibility. It makes sense. At the point that Roland switched Selrahc was a forgone conclusion because Rowain would probably vote to save himself, and (as Roland himself noted) I would probably have voted for Selrahc to save Rowain. Considering this, it was forgone that Selrahc was going to die. So Roland hops on the "innocent train". So far he's batting 100 (not voting MJW, voting Selrahc). Thats not the Roland I know  He's got some inside information here.
Wait a minute, now you're trying to tie me with pocketbeetle? The only reason I didn't vote to lynch pocketbeetle was that the biggest complaint against him was he wasn't posting - because he wasn't around! I'm not about to lynch someone just because they haven't had time for the game, not without something else to go on.
As for Selrahc being a foregone conclusion, says who? I was the one who tied the vote against Selrahc, long before it was a "foregone conclusion" - and I didn't even know I was tying it up! Scooter was the one who pushed me over the edge to finally vote. You going to call him a 'Wolf too now? After all, he voted for Selrahc "when it was a foregone conclusion," AND he refused to vote for MJW, too! Why, I guess that makes us both 'Wolves! But wait - there's more! Novice and Sandover followed me onto Selrahc - FOREGONE CONCLUSION, REMEMBER! - and neither of them were willing to vote MJW just because you can't stand him. Hey, look at that! One, two, three, four, five. FIVE! ZOMGWTFBBQ! Lewwyn solved the puzzle! He did what Mardoc couldn't! HE FOUND ALL FIVE WOLVES - ON THE SECOND DAY!
I was bucking the trend of jumping on the Rowain bandwagon, following (well, actually running parallel to; I didn't believe your theory at all, to be honest) your theory that he's innocent, and choosing the candidate who looked the most suspicious at the time. And because of me using my head instead of blindly follow everyone else (which is what got us that precious 1st 'Wolf kill on the 1st day in WW2, remmember!), I suddenly have "insider information"? And to back that up you add that I didn't vote for MJW? Come on. That's a straw man and you know it! The most damning thing I've done is hedge my vote all day today, and I've explained why I've been doing so every step of the way. What, just because my record is better looking than yours now you automatically assume I'm a 'Wolf? Try out your theory - you saw how far it got you last time, I guarantee you it won't be any better this time.
If you're going to accuse me of being a 'Wolf find something substantial. Don't come at me with this bull about "Oh, you didn't want to lynch MJW," and "Oh, Selrahc was a foregone conclusion." It's crap, and you know it. Straw f-ing man. Maybe you should go back to reading your tea leaves instead of smoking them. :neenernee
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One wolf in two days, that's actually a great start. Compare it to WW1, for example, where we had lynched two villagers at this point, also lost the seer, and the wolves still had a devil. We just need to lynch 4 more wolves now, whereas the wolves probably need to lynch something like 5-6 villagers.
One wolf tends to implicate another, once you dig through the evidence, and in my mind there are also several people who now appear a lot more likely to be innocent. (Ichabod in particular; probably best to leave the others unnamed for now).
I have to say I was almost convinced Rowain had to be a wolf; in hindsight, that was probably a bad sign, given my track record. I'm not saying this lynching clears him in any way, but I think it's wise to take a step back and re-evaluate now that we have a lot more to go on.
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